Inferior action???

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Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: K22Quote:
You asked........and someone has to be sarcastic.


Hey 5spd, back off, that's my job.
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I represent that remark!!!
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For those that worship at the alter of ""Custom actions", lemme ask you this.

Why are there always, like weekly... threads on the benchrest and "accuracy" forums about bolt lugs galling and which kind of techno-grease you need to use to keep your $1,000 custom action from self destructing...

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3794075.0

... and you never, ever, see a thread about a Rem 700 or Win M-70 bolt lugs galling... it's cuz they never gall, or self destruct.

I'll take a well done Win M-70. Rem-700, or 40-XB over a "custom" action every day of the week.

I have several Rem 40-XB that I bought close to 40 years ago, and NEVER greased... one has been through 5 barrels... no problems, no galling.

Let a Custom action do that.




In my job I see several custom actions a month along with several Rem. 700/7, several Win. 70's, and several Mauser 98 variations. While I don't machine anything I do fit alot of them to stocks. So far this year we have contacted 3 customers who sent custom Rem. clone barreled actions that either their installed barrel, or custom barrel lug, or custom action was out around by 30 thousands in the first 12" of the barrel.
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and needed to be fixed before we could inlet the stock. What is interesting is that I have not seen any factory barreled action of any manufacture with that problem.

Quote:You need to seriously think about getting those inferior Kimber actions "rounded out" so they'll shoot better. I'm thinking about having it done myself to my Kimbers, but I'm not sure if I can find a smith who can square one up to do the lathe work - based on internet information I've recently gathered about good gunsmiths.

Winny, I've got one of mine chucked up in my electric drill and I'm searching for a really course file so I can round that darn square action out.
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The Gunsmith I used to rebarrel my Kimber to a 17 Rem. is a benchrest shooter and so is his Dad. Both of them use Rem. 700 actions to build their bench rifles on. While he was building mine he emailed me when they were squaring my action up and said that my Kimber was the squarest action they had ever encountered from a factory.
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Quote:K22, I was thinking of you when I read this post .

Tim, were you reading my mind again?
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Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSMy real point is we each like our own for our own reasons, but I really don't think you can fairly call the Remington actions inferior.

Rob, I have to agree with your statement. I personally have only seen a couple of "inferior" actions in my time and those didn't last long at all.
We do have a customer who will only use Win. Model 70 actions, the pre64 style, for all of his big bore rifles. I do not pretend to know why, he just does.
As for custom big game rifles and walnut stocks, I do admit to going bonkers every time I see one using a Mauser 98 action. I'm sure its my age showing, but darn, I love those setups.
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSI have never played a lot with the Winchester actions. Just seemed to me everybody is copying remmys for a reason. I think they are the best all around production action to build from. Not to mention the largest aftermarket following of options for everything. Seems the round bottom makes it easier to bed too. In my few that I've bedded seemed like it worked well.

K22. I like the looks of those kimbers though. Guess I'm just not fan of the winnys.

As a few have already stated, the 700's are easier and cheaper to make and easier and cheaper to improve upon. That in itself does not make something else inferior, especially if you don't know much about the inferior "stuff".

I never called any action inferior. I was simply posting what was said about remmys.

Maybe so, but you didn't actually run from the idea with your opening statement:

Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI read a post recently where a guy built a nice custom gun on a Winchester action out of choice
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??? I know wierd huh! ..........
 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSI have never played a lot with the Winchester actions. Just seemed to me everybody is copying remmys for a reason. I think they are the best all around production action to build from. Not to mention the largest aftermarket following of options for everything. Seems the round bottom makes it easier to bed too. In my few that I've bedded seemed like it worked well.

K22. I like the looks of those kimbers though. Guess I'm just not fan of the winnys.

As a few have already stated, the 700's are easier and cheaper to make and easier and cheaper to improve upon. That in itself does not make something else inferior, especially if you don't know much about the inferior "stuff".

I never called any action inferior. I was simply posting what was said about remmys.

Maybe so, but you didn't actually run from the idea with your opening statement:

Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI read a post recently where a guy built a nice custom gun on a Winchester action out of choice
crazy.gif
??? I know wierd huh! ..........

Do I think a Remington is better?.... Oh yeah hands down. Did I ever actually call a Winchester inferior?.... No. I simply put that the guy used a Winchester over a remmy or something else. Now this is going to be a pissing match with you as your name is winny fan. That's not what I'm going for. I just don't see how a Winchester is any better than a Remington.
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSI have never played a lot with the Winchester actions. Just seemed to me everybody is copying remmys for a reason. I think they are the best all around production action to build from. Not to mention the largest aftermarket following of options for everything. Seems the round bottom makes it easier to bed too. In my few that I've bedded seemed like it worked well.

K22. I like the looks of those kimbers though. Guess I'm just not fan of the winnys.

As a few have already stated, the 700's are easier and cheaper to make and easier and cheaper to improve upon. That in itself does not make something else inferior, especially if you don't know much about the inferior "stuff".

I never called any action inferior. I was simply posting what was said about remmys.

Maybe so, but you didn't actually run from the idea with your opening statement:

Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI read a post recently where a guy built a nice custom gun on a Winchester action out of choice
crazy.gif
??? I know wierd huh! ..........

Do I think a Remington is better?.... Oh yeah hands down. Did I ever actually call a Winchester inferior?.... No. I simply put that the guy used a Winchester over a remmy or something else. Now this is going to be a pissing match with you as your name is winny fan. That's not what I'm going for. I just don't see how a Winchester is any better than a Remington.

You're off the mark again Oh Great Guesser.

The winnys that I'm a fan of have nothing to do with actions used to build custom rifles today. You're again making assumptions about things you know nothing about; this time it's me. You'd be surprised if you had a chance to look into a couple of my gun safes.

If you get into a pissing match, don't piss on yourself.
 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSI have never played a lot with the Winchester actions. Just seemed to me everybody is copying remmys for a reason. I think they are the best all around production action to build from. Not to mention the largest aftermarket following of options for everything. Seems the round bottom makes it easier to bed too. In my few that I've bedded seemed like it worked well.

K22. I like the looks of those kimbers though. Guess I'm just not fan of the winnys.

As a few have already stated, the 700's are easier and cheaper to make and easier and cheaper to improve upon. That in itself does not make something else inferior, especially if you don't know much about the inferior "stuff".

I never called any action inferior. I was simply posting what was said about remmys.

Maybe so, but you didn't actually run from the idea with your opening statement:

Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI read a post recently where a guy built a nice custom gun on a Winchester action out of choice
crazy.gif
??? I know wierd huh! ..........

Do I think a Remington is better?.... Oh yeah hands down. Did I ever actually call a Winchester inferior?.... No. I simply put that the guy used a Winchester over a remmy or something else. Now this is going to be a pissing match with you as your name is winny fan. That's not what I'm going for. I just don't see how a Winchester is any better than a Remington.

You're off the mark again Oh Great Guesser.

The winnys that I'm a fan of have nothing to do with actions used to build custom rifles today. You're again making assumptions about things you know nothing about; this time it's me. You'd be surprised if you had a chance to look into a couple of my gun safes.

If you get into a pissing match, don't piss on yourself.

You have a nice day. You have nothing to add to my post so move on.
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSOriginally Posted By: Winny FanOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSI have never played a lot with the Winchester actions. Just seemed to me everybody is copying remmys for a reason. I think they are the best all around production action to build from. Not to mention the largest aftermarket following of options for everything. Seems the round bottom makes it easier to bed too. In my few that I've bedded seemed like it worked well.

K22. I like the looks of those kimbers though. Guess I'm just not fan of the winnys.

As a few have already stated, the 700's are easier and cheaper to make and easier and cheaper to improve upon. That in itself does not make something else inferior, especially if you don't know much about the inferior "stuff".

I never called any action inferior. I was simply posting what was said about remmys.

Maybe so, but you didn't actually run from the idea with your opening statement:

Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI read a post recently where a guy built a nice custom gun on a Winchester action out of choice
crazy.gif
??? I know wierd huh! ..........

Do I think a Remington is better?.... Oh yeah hands down. Did I ever actually call a Winchester inferior?.... No. I simply put that the guy used a Winchester over a remmy or something else. Now this is going to be a pissing match with you as your name is winny fan. That's not what I'm going for. I just don't see how a Winchester is any better than a Remington.

You're off the mark again Oh Great Guesser.

The winnys that I'm a fan of have nothing to do with actions used to build custom rifles today. You're again making assumptions about things you know nothing about; this time it's me. You'd be surprised if you had a chance to look into a couple of my gun safes.

If you get into a pissing match, don't piss on yourself.

You have a nice day. You have nothing to add to my post so move on.

LOL..!! Oh my. If I agree 100% with everything you say, can I stay? PLEASE>>>!!
 
To anyone who can see this is being posed as a question about actions being inferior or not as you can plainly see in my title. I would love to discuss what make a action better or more desirable that would be great. Cause so far all I got is a chest beater
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I'll start off by saying I think remmys are better for all the aftermarket stuff, I like the design of the bolt and safety. I also would like to think that also of custom actions have been designed around this action for the qualities it has.
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI'll start off by saying I think remmys are better for all the aftermarket stuff, I like the design of the bolt and safety. I also would like to think that also of custom actions have been designed around this action for the qualities it has.

That's what you said in your first post.

Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSTo anyone who can see this is being posed as a question about actions being inferior or not as you can plainly see in my title. I would love to discuss what make a action better or more desirable that would be great. Cause so far all I got is a chest beater
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Don't ignore the other 4 or 5 people who also challenged you and the direction you wanted your post to go initially.

I'm gonna go to a Superbowl Party, so have a nice time.
 
Everyone else says there piece and leaves it there. That's a good example for you to follow. Have a good party.
 
If I were to trust safeties, I would put more faith in a Mauser design that blocks the firing pin, not one that blocks the trigger like a Rem.
 
Well, so that I don't disappoint Tim.........just kidding.
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As of recently, say the last 10years, I have noticed 700 actions being used a lot more than they were in the past. Course, maybe we should clarify what is meant by a Custom built rifle. To me it doesn't mean a bench/predator rifle, but more of a bigger game rifle. I think of Al Biesen, Griffin-Howe, or Paul Jaeger to name a few. Most of those customs were built on Mauser 98 actions or Pre64 Win. actions. Never seen any built on 700 actions. So when I think of Custom rifle others may call it a Classic rifle.
So, to play devil advocate, I think the Husqvarna,Kimber, Cooper, Dakota, Mauser and Antonio Zoli rifles have a far superior action than Remington.
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K22 I agree with you on your statement entirely there are better actions other than Remington 700. I'll never say that they are the very best
 
Originally Posted By: CoyotejunkiIf I were to trust safeties, I would put more faith in a Mauser design that blocks the firing pin, not one that blocks the trigger like a Rem.

Same fo' Winchester M-70 actions - the safty locks the firing pin in place and nothing can cause to fire while it is on safe.
 
Originally Posted By: CoyotejunkiIf I were to trust safeties, I would put more faith in a Mauser design that blocks the firing pin, not one that blocks the trigger like a Rem.

Me too. That is one strength of the Mauser 98 design.

Some modern day rifle manufacturers copied the idea. Direct from an online Model 70 manual:

• On Safe: This is when the “safety” is drawn to the
most rearward position and in line with the bolt.
Both the firing pin and bolt are locked (Figure 8).
Always maintain the “safety” in this position (fully
on) when a cartridge is in the chamber and until shooting is imminent.

• Intermediate Position: This is when the “safety”
is in the middle position (visually at a right angle
to the bolt). In the intermediate position the firing
pin remains locked but not the bolt (Figure 9),
allowing you to open the bolt and unload an unfired
cartridge from the chamber.

• Off Safe: With the “safety” fully forward, the rifle is ready to fire (Figure 10).
The “safety” mechanism, when engaged, is designed to block
the firing pin and disengage the sear to prevent firing. However, this mechanism
will not necessarily prevent the accidental discharge of
this firearm as a result of jarring or abuse such as occurs when a firearm is dropped.

Never rely totally on your firearm’s “safety.” It is merely an
aid to safe gun handling. Like any mechanical device the
“safety” can possibly fail; it can be bumped off or
inadvertently manipulated into an unsafe condition.
Always keep your rifle pointed in a safe direction.

Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI'll start off by saying I think remmys are better for all the aftermarket stuff, I like the design of the bolt and safety. I also would like to think that also of custom actions have been designed around this action for the qualities it has.

Read above comments.

Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSEveryone else says there piece and leaves it there. That's a good example for you to follow. Have a good party.

Yes, daddy. Say hi to Uncle Chupa while I'm gone.

Originally Posted By: K22Well, so that I don't disappoint Tim.........just kidding.
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As of recently, say the last 10years, I have noticed 700 actions being used a lot more than they were in the past. Course, maybe we should clarify what is meant by a Custom built rifle. To me it doesn't mean a bench/predator rifle, but more of a bigger game rifle. I think of Al Biesen, Griffin-Howe, or Paul Jaeger to name a few. Most of those customs were built on Mauser 98 actions or Pre64 Win. actions. Never seen any built on 700 actions. So when I think of Custom rifle others may call it a Classic rifle.
So, to play devil advocate, I think the Husqvarna,Kimber, Cooper, Dakota, Mauser and Antonio Zoli rifles have a far superior action than Remington.
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Excellent post. So.... not everyone sees a custom rifle as a factory action with a new stock and a can of Krylon? Interesting stuff.

Gotta' go or I'll miss the party. Kickoff coming soon and I have a 5 minute drive. I'd walk but it's raining.

 
I agree a custom rifle is more than a different stock and or barrel. But this post really isn't about what is a custom rifle and what's not though. If you take your action of choice and change everything else. It's a semi custom at best.
 
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