Is 223 Remington ".22 caliber"?

stiff neck

stiff neck

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Is 223 Remington ".22 caliber"? I've got a whole bunch of guys crawling down my back telling me that it's not, and that I'm a fool. They say that .22 caliber is synonymous with .22lr. They say anything wider, longer, or larger than a .22lr is not .22 caliber.

They won't accept facts, like reloading manuals, or Hornady's website. How do I convince them that they're wrong?
TNTBulletcarton.jpg
 
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standard bullet size for the 22 LR is .223 dia., the 223 is .224, there is 1/1000th of an inch difference in the bullet diameters. some of the older 22 hornets were made .223 diameter.
RR
 
Here goes might be a stupid question but i will ask anyhow.
If the 223 is really a .224 why do they call it a 223? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Stiffneck, do yourself a favor, just say "Ya, right" and change the subject. Then never even mention anything about guns to those guys again, they don't know what they are talking about (or just want to argue).
 
Chris is CORRECT! Those guys know less than nothing, any facts will be futile and a waste of time. It is like saying that a Ford Ranger is not a pickup cuz it aint same size as F-250.
 
I also agree with Chris. What wrongtarget said is definitely true, but I didn't feel the need to get into it this deep for this discussion. Your friends don't know enough to have to bother taking it this far, from what I can see--2MG
 
I have to agree with everyone on this, your in a no win fight here. You might ask them what a .22mag is then, it being .224cal while the .22lr is .223?
Steve; many guns are name for a different cal than what they are, .44mag is .429cal, the new .325wsm is .323 .240wby and .243win are .244cal just their way of making them sound different or more sexy.
 
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Steve223,

Why it is called a 223 instead of 224 is only known to Remington employees of several years ago

But here is one possible, but not neccessarily right, reason...

the 222 is the parent case from which it is designed. It's a little more powerful so it is the 223 while the 221 fireball also designed from the 222 case is a little less powerful.

And then there is the 222 magnum to throw that whole naming idea in the toilet

Winchester had a 225 Winchester round that also is a 224 diameter bullet.
 
I recognise some of the posters from other boards.
It's to bad that Stiff Neck/Sharpshooter didn't give you guys the full story, only 1 tiny slice of it. No one on the other sight is arguing about his diameter point, but his origional question about his local range rules.
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Range policy says .22 caliber or smaller. 223 Reminton OK?
Range Policy says "no rifles larger than .22 caliber... exception, with prior approval from the range master...". (Any pistol caliber is OK whether it's a duty pistol or not)

The range master that works when I am available to shoot interprets that to mean nothing bigger than 22LR........He has no problem with my target shooting with my 17HMR, but 223 Rem is a big NO.



http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=394586
 
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No one on the other sight is arguing about his diameter point

Actually, they are. They all say that 223 is NOT .22 caliber. If you bothered to read the whole thread, you'd know that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Here's a quote from one of the guys who continues to argue that 223 is NOT .22 caliber:
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Since it says LARGER than .22 and you want to go by EXACTITUDES, .224 is .004 larger than .22 ........................ Nice going you proved yourself wrong with your own stupid arguements. posted by OLY-M4gery

 
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Yup, and then you got the russian calibers, such as the AK with it's 7.62 round, but instead of being a .308 as the US 7.62 round is, works out as a .311.

The one I'm still trying to figgure out is the gun they have on Reno911!. It's a "357 Magnum 50 caliber." I'm guessing a .50 AE round necked down to .357? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif Actually, that would probably be a pretty slick looking little cartridge--except for the rebated rim thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
First off you should really post the entire section in the rulebook rather than a small section because those who are not familiar with their policies as a whole cannot understand the spirit and context of the rule.

How many guys are shooting guns there in the calibers of .204 tac 20, .19 or other bullets that are more comparable to the 223 than the 22lr? Do they allow the 204?, The .222? If so, then you may be able to get a more defined reason why the 223 is not allowed. My guess is that both rangemasters have the same person they answer to and you could ask for a meeting to clarify the issue but it will be a crapshoot. Either you win and can shoot all of the time or you lose and you never shoot there again. You could also give your phone number to the one who lets you shoot the 223 and have him call you when he is going to be working so you don't have to deal with the other one.

In the end the reason probably has to do with liability. The course probably has a general liability policy that has been defined by underwriters who know nothing about bullets but know statistics and that is probably where the decision lies. The rangemaster that has allowed you to shoot may be putting the insurance policy in your hands by letting you shoot and if his boss finds out, he may lose his job because he accomodated you. Maybe not but think about how others may be affected if you push the subject.As far as other groups using 308's, they may be required to carry supplemental insurance to cover anything that happens when they shoot that covers things not in the general policy of the course. Then again something could have happened in the past that required the club to prohibit the high power guns being used by the general public.

All of what I said was speculation but it does show some of the reasons why rules are made and also that things are hardly ever as easy as they seem on the outside. Mainly because too many people are making a living off of trying to reinterpret the meaning of things that used to be common sense. Like Clinton trying to determine the meaning of the word "Is".
 
Given the full context of your question, I would say you may NOT shoot .223 at this range. I just took and qualified at a concealed handgun class yesterday. The indoor range will allow handguns and .22 rifles or any rifle chambered in pistol calibers. In this context (yours as well) they are not discussing actual muzzle diameter, they are attempting to control muzzle energy/potential damage/liability to the range. My thoughts, Todd
 
Add the word "rimfire" to the sign and we wouldn't be having this dicussion. Of course that would also include the 22mag.--2MG
 
This discussion reminds me of a flap that came up when the Maryland "sniper" was doing his evil. A law enforcement officer was quoted as saying that it had been confirmed the shooter was using a "22 caliber" rifle. Well, never shy about demonstrating their stupidity, the media critized him heavily because the .223 was clearly a "high powered" rifle round for use in "assault weapons." The law enforcement officer was right, but as you have learned, Stiff Neck, being right can be a lonely place when ignorance is the rule. --Mykal
 


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