Is cleaning overrated???

sleddogg

sleddogg

New member
OK, like to get everyones take on cleaning our firearms.

So with the slower rounds like the 223 Remington, is there a need to clean? I read somewhere here too much cleaning is worse than none. Only gun I ever owned that demanded cleaning to shoot well was a Howa in 22-250.

Here's why I ask.... I have an OLD Remington 700 in 223 Rem that I bought used in 2002 for 175 bucks. Took it home and cleaned it. That was over 3000 rounds ago (it was my practice gun), and its been cleaned ONCE. Yes only once. And I only cleaned it out of guilt, not cause it was shooting bad.

I take good care of it otherwise, and run an oiled patch down the bore of all my guns once a month.

But this poor old guns bore NEVER gets cleaned. So I've been shootin' AR's mostly lately, but drug the neglected 700 along today to check zero.

First shot a little low, 2 clicks up, I'm ready to hunt. Load is 27 grains 748, 50 grain Hornady SP, Remington 7.5 primer, COL is 2.210. I chronied this load years ago, and if I remember it was 3200 and change.

Anyone else just shoot without cleaning?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

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Yes... well maybe. I think the individual firearm dictates what it wants more than anything else. Remember we're talking hunting class guns and not benchrest class competition firearms. Once I have a load developed I clean mine really well just before the hunting season. Then won't touch it again until after the season is over. For coyotes for me personally, that means from October until late March. Unless I end up in some incliment weather that I think may have rain, snow, ect. down the bore. Then I clean.

I want a stencil of those coyote tracks! I saw another fellow on PM a few years ago that had those on his calling rifle and have thought about it since. I'd like to paint those on my black synthetic BAR stock. Where'd ya get them?
 
I clean during the break in process.After breakin,i shoot moly coated bullets.After each day of hunting i put a light coat of oil in the barrel.Then at the end of the season i give them a good cleaning.It has worked well so far.
 
"Too much cleaning is worse than none"
That's not always true, but I do believe too much "improper" cleaning is worse than none.
You may get away with out cleaning in calibers such as .223, but you will not have such luck in .243. Plus, each gun is different, some barrels shoot well dirty some won't. I guess if you can live with 3~4000 round with out cleaning then thats good enough. Then again, I demand better accuracy in my guns and I can't live with that group you shot out of my guns, so I clean my regularly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I have a Ruger M77 in .243 that will not shot if it is not clean,about every 20-30 rounds i have to clean it. On the other hand i have a Savage M12 varmint in .223 and by golly dont clean it until it just wont shoot!!! worked up a load for it a five shot group that was .191! woohoo so then i cleaned it and it took 18 rounds before it settled down and started to group good again. So in my opinion each gun will tell you what to do with it.
 
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Then again, I demand better accuracy in my guns and I can't live with that group you shot out of my guns, so I clean my regularly.



He couldn't live with that accuracy either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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or him

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or him

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or.........you get the picture, its a hunting gun /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

Totally off the shelf gun, no floating, bedding, aftermarket parts. Sure it could shoot better groups, but its a hunting gun, not a benchrest gun. Good shooter for 175 bucks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

But my point is this is how she shoots, clean or dirty, so............... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Shoot it til you miss something yoou feel you should have hit and then you'll know it needs a cleaning.

I prefer mine to shoot better than minute of coyote.

I clean mine way to much I guess. But I always shoot two or three fouling shots before taking a freshly cleaned gun to the field.

Each gun is different and your experience with them will let you determine when to clean the bore.

JMHO, YMMV.
Clayman
 
It's your rifle and your call on cleaning.
Cleaning works for me, with a good rod, bronze bristle brush and a good solvent.
The bore will probably last longer if you take care of it.
 
Thats cool Im shootin the same load. Just got started with my 223.I wouldnt do anything diff than you have been.With the expensive air guns I use to shoot alot of guys would mess them up by cleaning cause the barrels are softer than powder burners.
Daryl P.
 
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Then again, I demand better accuracy in my guns and I can't live with that group you shot out of my guns, so I clean my regularly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



Wow. that was harsh.




Sleddog- Theres a school of thought that all the cleaning really needed is a wet patch of hoppes followed by dry patches till clean, then another wet patch for storage. then before the gun is shot again dry patches til clean.
Moly bullets drove me nuts and got me into the habit of overcleaning, Im tryin to stay clear of that for now, but its a hard habit to break.

Hey nice bunch of yotes, even for an unclean, unacceptable bore. LMAO-Mike
 
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He couldn't live with that accuracy either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif




That's too funny. I would love for some of my hunting rifles to shoot groups like that posted group. Furthermore, I would love to be able to regularly shoot groups like that under hunting situations.

Somehow I still manage to kill a few animals each year. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif
 
Never judge a hunter by the groups he shoots at the range /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

He may shoot one hole groups and suck as a coyoteman.

Hey GC! I like all my black guns to have prints on them. I have a couple stencils I'll send you, just shoot me a PM.

BuzzBee, I got this gun with a chrome bore so I'll really never have to clean. Groups are terrible with this gun too, but I doubt the coyotes are gonna like the 65 grain Sierra Gamekings it shoots big 'ole groups with either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

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hello, yet another good topic..i used to never clean my guns..never really thought about it ?? about two years ago i started becoming anal about my equipment..i also started to become more serious about my shooting..i clean every twenty or so rounds now..does it make a difference "honestly" i don't know...i bumped into a guy recently that claimed he used to shoot match competition..anyway he said don't clean your gun until it starts shooting bad...his guideline was 100-150 rounds..said he shot 223 & 308 plenty..i have no reason not to believe him..i just stared reloading last winter when i tested a load & it shot bad it always seemed to be around the 25 shot mark...i dismissed it to a dirty barell..i don't care now as i have a few proven loads..i will hunt now & hopefully i will shoot enough coyotes to foul the barell !!! Ha..Ha.. i think in regard to Sledds 223 if it aint broke don't fix it !!
 
BuzzBee,
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Then again, I demand better accuracy in my guns and I can't live with that group you shot out of my guns, so I clean my regularly



Come on now, look and read again. It's a lightweight, sporter style, inexpensive hunting gun. Sleddog fires one round, moves his scope two clicks and fires four more. The last four for group, three are touching, one barely out of the cloverleaf. How much better do you expect from such a rig? Additionally, I do shoot .243's and that is my cleaning procedure I outlined above. My rifles are doing fine and the critters keep dropping. I'd venture to bet more rifles are cleaned to an early death, than the other way around. You may not have intended to sound so rude, however, it came off pretty sour. Here's a group from my favorite calling rig. A .243 Browning BAR Lwt. Synthetic Stalker, with factory loads no less. Even though it's neglected by your standards, it does alright...
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I barely ever thouroughly (sp?) clean my rifles. I never have. All my guns shoot great groupings. I think that the fact that I shoot premium ammo has the most to do with it.
I only once in a blue moon clean my guns. If I do it is usually one rag w/ cleaner then after a few minutes a rag with bore conditioner. Only once in a blue moon though.

For those who say that I should clean, I have a rugger 10/22 that is 16 years old. Never cleaned and shoots dime size groupings at 50 yds.

I have a Remmington 742 woodsmaster that was given to me by my father when I was in 8th grade. It shoots 1.5 inch groupings at 200 yds.
 
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Got a new DELUXE GUN CLEANING KIT for Christmas a couple of years ago. Guess it's about time I opened her up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif kyray
 
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BuzzBee,
Sleddog fires one round, moves his scope two clicks and fires four more. The last four for group, three are touching, one barely out of the cloverleaf.



My bad, I misread that part of the post, the 3 shot cluster is not bad.
 
Buzzbee...i skimmed over your post earlier... now i look back...you can't live with those groups ??? maybe you are a pro of some type ?? if so please identify yourself...i'm not trying to be rude..."however" i took your comments as being so....how many coyotes have you killed with your "benchrest" skills ??? Sleddogg didn't post his pictures to win Match competitions...he was merely showing examples of how his rifle shoots uncleaned !!! i found it very interesting...
 
I take no offense to what BuzzBee says, and I'm just goofin' with him. I'm sure he is an accomplished shot, and good hunter.

But I'm just gonna let my 223's ride and see what happens. I've only cleaned the action of my AR so far, and it still shoot the same at 600 rounds as it did at 20 rounds.

I've got a 243 thats needed 2 barrels, but not from lack of cleaning, just burnt the barrels out. A 243 barrel lasts me about 10 years before its shooting bad enough for me to trash. Didn't clean the 243 either, and that still shot good.

As I wrote above the only gun that gave me fits if I didn't clean was a Howa 1500 in 22-250. Thats why I was curious if it was just the real speed demons that needed cleaning. The Howa needed a GOOD cleaning and brushing every 50 rounds of so, or it was a 3 inch pattern at 100 yards. Clean it good, shoot 3 foulers, back down to just under an inch.
 
sleddog

I have a pair of 204s that will drive you to drinking if you don't clean them after 30 or so rounds. But they are humping along around 3900-4200fps, depending on the load. Plus most of their action comes on super hot summer days in the groundhog fields, sun bearing down , multiple shots. One of them thinks it is a copper factory as well. Also various powders burn differently, some leaving lots of black junk behind for this ole swabby to swab out.

It is all in the individual gun's personality ro gunanality.
 
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