Looks like the .17 Fireball will work fine in Mach IV rifles

CatShooter

CatShooter

New member
Found this over on the Saubier.com site.

---

From fotohunt

Default 17 Remington Fireball UPDATE!!!!!

Okay,
Here's the skinny. I Took the rifle to the gunshop, and chambered a round [.17 Fireball] and viola, it chambered just fine.

Now, for the real test. I know that this isn't a true go/no-go guage, but I put a piece of tape on the case head that measured .0015 and chambered the round and the bolt closed with just barely marking the tape. Then I repeated the process with two pieces for a total of .003 and again, the bolt closed with a "little resistance" and gauled the tape. Then, with three pieces for a total of .0045 and felt great resistance when closing the bolt and it severely gauled the tape.

To me, that puts it within the tolerances of go/no-go and should fire safely in my gun.

Now, I know that inquiring minds want to know, so I will deal with the "burden" of firing the entire box of factory loads and report back how it does.

I of course will do it safely, ie. safety glasses and a kevlar blanket with a string and hopefully won't blow up the riffle.

Thanks to all for your input,

Darrell

ps- I'll try to post some pics of the new rounds.

---



.
 
Darrell is a medic attached to the Marines, he's been in Iraq once maybe more. He's Varmint hunter thru and thru. We hunted Coyotes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif for a week /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif in southern AZ earlier this year.
 
This is exactly what Rem has been talking about. Folks just can't leave this .17 Mach IV stuff alone! We had rounds that would chamber in some of our rifles as well but not going to shoot them. A fired .17 FB case form a .17 FB rifle will not chamber in any of the .17 Mach IV rifles. My thoughs are this. The .17 FB will probably shoot in many .17 MIV rifles. However, the .17 FB case will be formed to the Mach IV chamber. When resized back to .17 FB I am sure the slight differences will make for short case life if used in this manner.
 
Quote:
The .17 FB will probably shoot in many .17 MIV rifles. However, the .17 FB case will be formed to the Mach IV chamber. When resized back to .17 FB I am sure the slight differences will make for short case life if used in this manner.



Steve,

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the above statement.

If a person has a rifle in MachIV and can shoot (safely) 17FB ammo in it, why would that person resize the brass back to 17FB dimensions again to shoot in his MachIV?

I have a cooper in MachIV and if the 17FB ammo will fit and fire safely in it I'll just resize it using my MachIV dies.

Do you see a problem doing that?
 
Elk, I was speaking in text of resizing it to use in a .17 FB again. I understand what you are speaking of to get around the pain in the butt of making IV brass. Personally, feel you will be just blowin out the cases like forming AI brass in IV rifles. The problem I have is some IV chambers are not the same and who knows what could happen.

Dan, just that everyone will be trying to shoot the .17 FB rounds out of their IV's. We did not know if all the rifles would chamber the round but we found that some will. If it were me, would have made it so it would not even be close to chambering in a IV rifle. To me this is a accident waiting to happen in the law suit area. As I am sure someone somewhere will figure out how to blow up a rifle doing this.
 
Steve...

You can be VERY sure that Remington is aware of the law suit arena - they have a staff of full time lawyers working on this stuff all the time.

Lookie - if the .17 Fireball is a fit in the MK-IV chamber, with 0.004" headspace, then it FITS and is fully usable.

That some fired .17 Fireball cases wouldn't fit in MK-IV chambers is not unusual.

I have a eight .223 rifles, and fired cases from some of them won't fit in others... and one of the chambers is so tight, that full-length sized case from ANY of the other seven won't fit in it... that does not mean that it (or the others) are dangerous.

Headspace issues don't "blow up guns" - when the .223 first came out, there were a large number of firing a .223 in a .222 Mag chamber... nothing happened except that the .223 was fire formed into a very short necked .222 Magnum, and that combination has 50 thou of headspace.

Contrary to the many wives tales by Joe Shooter, "I've seen a lotta guns blow up at my range", in fact guns blowing up is extreamly rare, and occurs from barrel obstructions. Excessive headspace won't do it.

If I was an owner of a MK-IV, I would try the factory rounds in my rifle... if the cases were too long, I would get a MK-IV Redding body "shoulder bump" die and size the .17 Fireball ammo (you CAN size loaded ammo with a body die!!).

If the factory case fit my rifle, I would do the tape test and see how much headspace I had.

SAAMI allows 0.014" headspace in factory ammo/chambers, as NORMAL tolerance.

SO I think that this is a win/win situation for both calibers.

.
 

Catshooter,

You hit it right on the head.
Looks like Remington did it right.
Now for a CZ American in 17 FB. May have to make that conversion if CZ doesn't chamber for it.
 
Quote:

Catshooter,

You hit it right on the head.
Looks like Remington did it right.
Now for a CZ American in 17 FB. May have to make that conversion if CZ doesn't chamber for it.



I think CZ WILL chamber for this round.

I've been in the shooting game for over a half century, and I can't remember a round that there has been so much excitement over. Most new guns/calibers have to be pumped up in the gun rags for 6 months to get sales started.

With the .17 Fireball, there were a few preliminary articles, and some of those were critical and said the caliber wasn't needed...
... but the stores can't get them fast enough.

When I went down to the dealers to put a bigger deposit on my Ltd, he said he can't get another, no matter what - they are already all spoken for.

And the fact that I have one sitting in the store says something, cuz I had two 17 Rem 700 BDLs, that were both dogs, and I HATE 17 cal rifles...

... and I can't wait to get this little puppy out of jail.

.
 

Catshooter,

I must be lucky, My + 25 yr old 700 in 17rem still shoots in the .6's with 25 bergers. But my 1yr old CZ 17varmint has some 5 shot groups in the .3's. Averages about .6 with the loads I've tried.
 
The pretty little post office lady dropped off a package from Midway.

Two hundred and twenty .221 Fireball cases and a Redding #1 .17 Fireball form die.

A Forster 17 trimmer pilot.

100 each of the 20 and 25 V-maxs. Jeeze, these bullets are small. The Varmint rig I am working on (when the winter weather closed) is a 264 WM Sendero-II SF...

And a bunch of other 17 cal related stuff.

Life is good!

.
 
Steve,
Do you work for Remington? If so, and you were giving them input, I am glad they did what they did and not what you wanted.

I can understand your concern for safety and all. Actually to protect us from ourselves and all. However, I think the sales of loaded ammo for the 17 Rem FB will be greatly increased for the obvious reason of it being able to be fired through those nasty old 17 Mach IV chambers some of us have.

Some of us might actually like this ammo and buy it to shoot little varmints with. I'm also curious "like Dan" what did Remington say?
 
I wouldn't be concerned too much about head space issues with the 17 FB case fired in Mach IV chambers,, but I sure would be about neck tension issues in some Mach IV chambers.

JMO - BCB
 
As odd as it might seem to you, all of the current chamber reamers for the 17 MK4 are made to the same spec's. I build 17's and have seen several rifles built by others, that will accept a resized case from one of my rifles. The biggest difference is in the smith and method of chambering. Some are very good at it and others are not as good.
 
Quote:
"... but I sure would be about neck tension issues in some Mach IV chambers."

JMO - BCB



Why... what is different about Mach IV chambers that some will have less/more neck tension?? That is different than other rounds?

Will this happen with 17 Fireball? And how about the .270 and 30-06?

.
 
Quote:
Quote:
"... but I sure would be about neck tension issues in some Mach IV chambers."

JMO - BCB



Why... what is different about Mach IV chambers that some will have less/more neck tension?? That is different than other rounds?

Will this happen with 17 Fireball? And how about the .270 and 30-06?

.


CatShooter,
I suspect BCB meant neck clearance or length not tension?

Jack
 
Thanks, Jack....

Poor choice of words on my part, Catshooter. Sorry.....

On a totally different vein, I looked at a couple of the rifles today... several in the SPS model for $469 and one in the CDL Fluted Stainless model for $829. The CDL is a very nice looking factory rifle.

Does anyone have any information yet on how long the bullet jump is in these rifles? Is it typical 17 caliber Remington and overly long? I definitely like the issue of factory brass being available, but can't decide whether to buy one of the factory rifles or have a 700 action barreled with a throat that is reachable.

-BCB
 
Quote:
Thanks, Jack....

Poor choice of words on my part, Catshooter. Sorry.....

-BCB



Ok... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

My .204 XR-100 had an awfully long throat. But the 17 bullets are fairly long and maybe we can find the throat with one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

.
 
Here's another posting about the .17 FB in the Mk-IV rifles...

---

PennDog

Location: Western Pennsylvania, USA

Default .17 Remington Fireball in Mach IV

Got a box of .17 Fireball ammo and had to see if it would work in my Cooper M21 17 Mach IV. I chamber cast my Mach IV a while back and so had something to compare with the loaded ammo before I just dropped one in a went bang Dimensions were very similar for both my chamber cast, a fired round, and the factory stuff. The factory round was dimensionally smaller of course in neck diameter (.198"-.199"). But length was OK at 1.396", the neck was not longer than my old Mach IV cases or the chamber cast.....so of course I tried it Chambered with no problem, fired fine, and extraction was no different than with my handloads. Now to see if they are accurate at all (might try to get to the range today if I can get out of the office).

Just wanted to pass on my experience...as many others have already stated the variations in chambers would dictate caution prior to running out and dropping it in your rifle.
 
Back
Top