Need Advice on 17 cal. Berger Bullets

V

Voldoc02

New member
I have developed a good load for my 17 Rem. CZ varmit rifle.
20 gr. V-Max
VV-N 135 24.1 grs.
Federal small rifle match primer
2.240" OAL
fireformed Lee collet neck sized cases
Velocity-4385 fps
groups 4's- 6's
Question- what Berger bullet would be a good canidate\for
further load developemnet??
as they are quite expensive and seemingly only availabel in lots of 200.
I am thinking 20 HPFB for crow, PD use
any advice would be appreciated as I am new to 17 Cal.
thanks much,
Doc Stone
 
Voldoc02:

The Berger web site shows what the recommended twist is for each bullet weight they make in 17 caliber. Keep in mind however, its the length of the bullet that determines what twist barrel is needed and not the weight, but generally the heavier the bullet is, the longer it is.

Without knowing specific information about your rifle, and its rate of twist, I'll offer some general advice on the 17's.

With factory barrels, the 25 grain bullets will shoot well in a 1 in 10" twist barrel in most cases, but not always. If your barrel is a 1 in 9" twist it will handle the 25 grain bullets without a doubt and will most likely shoot the 30 grain bullets also.

If you go above 30 grains in bullet weight, its probably going to take a custom fast twist barrel (faster than 1 in 9") to stabilize bullets above 30 grains.

I have shot 17 caliber rifles for over 25 years and have pretty much settled on 25 grain bullets for most things and 30 grain bullets for something the size of a coyote. That has worked well for me, and it has been quite a while since I shot any 20 grain 17 caliber bullets. But, that's just my preference for the 17 calibers.

Incidentally, if you're not familar with it, Saubier.com is a good place to visit if you have small caliber interests. Be careful, however, as they have a very good "mentoring program" and will gladly help you spend your money. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif A great bunch of guys with lots of small caliber experience. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif To illustrate what I mean by mentoring, now that you have one 17 caliber, you'll probably need a couple more, and then you might want to branch off into the 20 calibers, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Good luck, the 17 calibers are addictive - pretty soon you'll have a whole bunch of them in assorted cartridge sizes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

- BCB

EDIT: One other point. I just noticed you might be using a standard SR primer in the 17 caliber? The high pressure small caliber cases definitely need a thicker cupped primer like the Remington 7 1/2 or the CCI-BR4 primers, or the Federal 205M. If you don't use them, you'll get some pierced primers and needless bolt face wear - not to mention gas in your face. Not a good thing!

Here's a prettty good link for reading about primers. I believe the article is titled "Primers and Pressure".

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/articles.html#19cal

- BCB
 
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Voldoc02-- BCB has given you some very good advice.

I have never used the 20 gr. Berger FB bullet. However, my .17 Remington has a 1 in 9" twist Lilja SS barrel on it and I shoot the 20 gr. V-Max for most of my prairie dog hunting. Recently I tried the 26 gr. Genco RBT HP bullet and once I found a load for that one it shot super nice. It doesn't blow prairie dogs into chunks like my 20 gr. V-Max load, but it does kill them on the spot. I was thinking that these 26 gr. Gencos might work on coyotes, although I do prefer the 30 gr. Starke Red Prairie Vamint bullet for coyote medicine.

The 20 gr. Berger FB only has a BC of .147 while the 20 gr. V-Max has a BC of .187 and that will make some difference if you do long-range shooting with the 20 gr. bullets. Berger makes a nice 30 gr. LTB pill with a fairly nice BC of .232 and it shot fairly well in my tests. That bullet and the Kindler Gold 30 gr. bullet (BC of something like .275) should be great long-range prairie dog bullets in your CZ. I believe your CZ has a 1 in 9" twist and it should handle those 30 gr. bullets quite nicely.

I have also been doing some testing using the 30.8 gr. Hammett BT HP bullet. That bullet shoots very accurately in my .17 Remington as well. Like you mentioned, the only drawback to the Bergers, Gencos, Kindler Golds, and Hammetts is that they are very expensive compared to what I pay for the 20 gr. V-Max, and the 25 gr. Hornady HP. I stocked up on the 30 gr. Starke bullets before Clint went out of business, so I have no worries about running out of those.

I have read that Hornady is currently making and selling a 25 gr. V-Max bullet. That should be a very nice addition to their line of .172 caliber bullets. It might be worth your while to give it a try for PDs, crows, etc.

If you do try the 20 gr. Bergers, please give us a report on how they work out for you. It is a bummer to have to buy 200 bullets in one crack, especially if they don't pan out. I had to buy 300 of the 30 gr. Kindler Gold bullets and they aren't worth a hoot in my .17 Remington. I traded 100 of them for the 30.8 gr. Hammetts and still have maybe 80+ of them left that I would like to trade for some more of the 30.8 gr. Hammetts or one of the lighter weight Hammett bullets or just sell them outright.
 
I have built a few long range 17 rifles for some friends and the only bullet for 500-1000 yards is the 37grVLD. It requires a very fast twist, 6" always works and 7" will work sometimes. With a 6" twist barrel life is about 500 rounds. If the 7" works it is good for 6-700 rounds.

If you are just hunting 500 rounds is a long time. If you are shooting competitions or PDs, 500 is unacceptable barrel life.

Jack
 
Do yourself a favor, and forget the bergers.....Hornadys will do everything you want from a 17 rem, at less cost and higher quality and consistency.
 
I use the Berger 25gr. HP in front of Varget 23.0grs. It gives me a velocity of 3900fps., and has grouped as small as .264" (5 at 100yds.) I really like Berger bullets, just wish they weren't so darned expensive. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 
In my experience, the 20gr V-Max is the best bullet for the critters you mentioned. The other bullets mention by Fox are more in line for taking predators than varmints you speak of. Hornady's will be lots cheaper as Chile mentioned.
 
For anyone that's interested in custom bullets in 17 caliber, here's a fairly good list to start with, including Hammett Bullets.

1. Hammett Bullets - 318-728-2019

2. Genco Bullets - 828-684-5797

3. Tanner Bullets - 319-984-5224

4. Nagel Bullets - 208-267-2860

5. Black Hole Bullets - 913-341-1720

6. Todd Kindler (Woodchuck Den) - 330-897-0614

Berger and Hornady, of course, are mass producers with retail outlets, and both have web sites. Both make good bullets, also.

Some of these custom suppliers as well as Berger have different weights, etc., from the norm of 20, 25 and 30 grains, and can provide good bullets for some of the smaller case 17 wildcats as well as excellent bullets for 17 Mach IV, 17 Remington and other larger case 17's.

- BCB
 
Both the Hornady 20gr. VMAX and the 25gr. HP are excellent bullets. I think they are the equal of the Bergers. With those 3 I have little desire to experiment with others. Best wishes.

Cal - Montreal
 
You don't need any more info, Cal hit it right on the head.With the offerings from Hornady, you can have your cake and eat it to! Excellent bullet, at far less cost,and equal or better quality than some of the custom jobs, plus, you can FIND the damned things at most any gun shop.
Ive tried several of the custom bullets, and they don't do anything the Hornadys can't do.
 
As Silverfox mentioned above, just this past week Hornady announced that they are now producing a new 25 grain flat base VMax in 17 caliber. They will be available in a few weeks.

Midway is supposedly going to be the first retailer to have these available, but they can also be bought directly from Hornady very soon.

It should be a good addition to their line of bullets, and it is something serious 17 shooters have been requesting for quite a few years. - BCB
 
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thanks much for the opinions as they are a hoot to read.
and
ChileRojo , you need to just say what you really feel about this subject and stop holding in all those inner thoughts (grin) You must work for Hornady!!!!
really, thanks much as these posts help make for a good day.....
Doc Stone /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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