Need opinions / pictures ASAP!!! Coyote Hybrids????

N_Georgia

N_Georgia

New member
Saw something this afternoon that has me alittle puzzled and freaked out at the same time. I have had two 125lb calves disappear in the last couple of day. Not one trace of them anywhere. Today about 3pm I was driving through a field when i saw a coyote at about 75 yards (what I thought was a coyote). I stopped the truck and got the AR out of the back seat. It took off, it was huge. It was dark charcoal colored with a light belly and tail. It got to about 150yds and I whistled. Just as shot it turned 90 degrees and took off. I found my bullet hole in the tree where it was standing. About eight to ten years ago a neighbor killed a coyote that the DNR called a coyote/red wolf cross. We've only had coyotes in this area about ten years now. I'm not saying that this was a wolf as I know it wasn't but it was one intimidating coyote. I am wondering if this could be a dog/coyote cross of some kind. Does anyone have any photos of any coyote half breeds?
 
could have just been one huge Eastern coyote.

I've only seen two coyote/dog hybrids both weighed in the 35 pound range.
 
I just killed a 33 pounder last week and this one was much larger (noticeable taller and lanky). But not to worry he/she is my quest for now... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif




Actually its the one in my Avatar
 
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Georgia,

It could very well be a hybrid (coyote/red wolf). I've read lots of stuff on this over the years. I live in Eastern Texas and it wasn't to many years ago we had red wolves and no coytes to speak of. My theory is that when the red wolf population was reduced it opened the door for coyotes to move east. During this expantion I believe they bred with the reminant populations of the red wolf, thus creating a larger breed of coyote. I believe it is bergmans rule that states that animals residing in more northern areas will grow larger to enable them to survive the harse winters. Of course this theory is not applicable to eastern Texas or Georgia either for explaining the extroidinary size of our coyotes. This is why I lean towards the theory that they are somehow a hybrid variety of coyote. I've killed lots of coyotes in both the east and west but have never seen as much of a color variance in coyotes as I do in the Eastern varieties. I've seen them from almost white to black and everything in between. In fact, red is very common. I even shot a few strawberry blond coyotes. Now back to the size deal you mentioned. The average adult male here in East Texas will weigh 40 or more. I've also killed several that would go over 50. These coyotes size also makes them a more formidable predator as well. Predation on livestock is very common in these parts. Sheep and goats don't have a chance. I've been ridiculed by some of the internet coyote experts by expressing what I've seen. I've been lambasted for claims of the problems coyotes cause to cattle here and my claims of their size. I can assure you these are not wild stories or exagerations from an uneducated person but facts.

I don't doubt for a minute you saw a large dark coyote. In my experience it could also be responsible for the calf kills. One thing for sure is that it wasn't there looking for daisies to pick.

Here is a couple of pics. These coyotes were taken outside Bossier City, LA. The larger coyote, male, weighed over 50 pounds (cerified UPS scales).
rod6.jpg

rods7.jpg

rodspair.jpg


Good Hunting, Be Safe, Have Fun, and God Bless,

Byron
 
Byron's post is a lot more relevant than mine, but I ran across this article earlier today that talks about DNA analysis that was done on NE coyotes. Here is a quote from the article:

a study by Wilson and Jakubas shows that of 100 coyotes collected in Maine, 22 had half or more wolf ancestry - and one was 89 percent wolf. Over half of the specimens had eastern coyote ancestry, but only 4 percent were mostly descended from western coyotes (Canis latrans).

The article also references the Red Wolf that Byron was talking about as the possible genetic contributor:

...evidence, according to Jakubas, suggests they were not "timber wolves," or gray wolves (Canis lupus), as northern and western wolves now are called. Rather, he said they appear to have been similar to the red wolves (Canis rufus) found in Canada's Algonquin Provincial Park north of Toronto. Red wolves are also in the southeastern U.S. where a captive breeding project has been started to save them from extinction.

Here is the link if you want to read the full article:
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/local_news/story/fef373e9d

I realize that you are long way from Maine, but I had just found this article 20 minutes before I read your post and found it interesting.


CalCoyote
 
Sounds a lot like the other guy in N. GA that posted about the large aggressive coyotes that had killed his uncles dogs. I say we round up a GA hunting party and get to killin.
 
Very interesting and makes for some possible exciting hunting. In AZ we used to have Mexican Gray wolves, which are substantially larger than coyotes. They were reintroduced into the state a ways back but really haven't taken hold as the AZ game and Fish wanted. We have only 60 right now.
 
Byron, I hunted 50 or so miles west of Atlanta not far from I -20 in the mid 90s when coyote populations were exploding in Georgia. My deer club killed coyotes just like those in your picture then. and they reported coyotes in the paper like those taking backyard beagles in Lawrenceville then too. Purty big!
 
Hyperwrx,

I've hunted up by Hanagan Meadows in Arizona and have seen a Mexican Grey wolf. In fact if Jay Nistetter would have pushed the record button we could show some pictures of that wolf.

Wolves and coyotes are very similar in appearance but are also very easy to tell apart. Their gate and the way they carry their tale is quite different. Not sure what wolf characteristics a hybrid retains, but it has been my experience that the larger coyotes that we kill in my area all exhibit coyote characteristics except for size and color phases. They aslo seem to, at time, pack up more and not just in small family groups as coyotes do.

Mr. Butt,

I live just off 1-20 in eastern Texas. Maybe they took the bus to Georgia from here.

Someone posted a story from a Dallas paper a few years ago. In this story they were talking about the extreemely large coyotes they were traping within the city limits of Dallas. It even went on to quote one of the trapers as saying that he had been traping coyotes for lots of years and had never seen such large coyotes. It got me to thinking that maybe these coyotes are not just spreading East but maybe West as well. For a referance.... I've killed coyotes lots of coyotes all over the state. Most of the adult males in the panhandle of Texas will weight about 30-35 pounds, in West Texas about 25-30, and south Texas about 20-25 pounds. I've heard and read that their are 17 or more subspecies of coyotes. This may be true. What I do know is they are all a challenge and fun to hunt.

Byron
 
here is a picture of one of the strawberry blond coyotes I mentioned, He was fairly large too. In the picture with me is Crapshoot and Yellowhammer.
CopyofDSC00886.jpg
.

I'll look for a picture of a black one I shot.
 
For reference to Byron's pictures for those who don't know him, Byron is a tall man, 6'3" or 6'4" I'd guess.

That's a BIG coyote he's holding compared to what we have out here, probably twice as big.

You and Jay didn't see a Mex grey wolf though Byron. We know that because the authorities on the White Mountain rez say they have all of their wolves accounted for and none have crossed the river. The canid you saw, and the ones the San Carlos folks have dealt with to protect their elk herds are...uh...they must be...that is, they couldn't be...well obviously they HAVE to be something else since the reintroduced wolves are so carefully and successfully monitored. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
found it.

bc4.jpg

here is an almost white one too. I didn't kill this coyote but was sent the picture. I believe it was killed in Tennesse.

coyote6.jpg



Another thing worth mentioning as far as hybrids and wolves go. I've not been around wolves much at all but have seen plenty about them. It seems very common in wolf populations to have large variances in the colors even within packs or litters. In my mind this is a way of drawing a corlation between these coyotes and wolves. In other words they could very well be hybids.

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Found this while looking for the black one.
This coyote weighed either 52 or 54 pounds. He is hanging on the scales in the picture.
DSC00454.jpg


Byron
 
Now Leon,

If Byron is 6'3" or 4" then given the pic of him, yellowhammer and Lance, than it is obvious that Lance is at least 8'5".... My God, I'm hunting with a Giant this weekend... cool
 
N Georgia,

Circa; 1971, Winter snowfly. We were coyote hunting with our sighthounds[central Iowa]. One of the guys spotted a large canine bedded 1/4 mile out on the bottom of a high hill. This canine was massive, looked all coyote. But was the size of a gray wolf. The dogs missed him that day.

Over the yrs, I've seen a handfull of other odd canines. That were not "all" coyote. Not only because of their large size or color. But different shaped heads & tails. An oddity for sure.

As of last Winter. There were two different odd canines in my hunt area. One looks 1/2 long Haired Collie/coyote-x [est 50lbs or so]. The other looks all coyote, but is solid brown with red tinted fur. I est that one around 70lbs. These two are the wariest of canines, that I ever went after. I want them bad, but no cigar...so far. We'll see this Winter snowfly.
 
Here is a crappy pic[foggy out], of a very large canine. I took early last Winter snowfly. The canine is on the highest hill, off to the right[dark blob] near the horizen. Pic is zoomed from 3/4 mile away.

This canine was 2.5 corn rows long, [tip of it's snout to end of it's rump]. I seen him/her? again a short time later that Winter. Canine's shoulder was 2.5 barbed strands high @ the shoulder. A brute for sure.

Good thing is, late last Winter, I found out where it's "bedding section" is. Canine is gonna meet my fatgirl, this Winter snowfly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Double clic the pic, to enlarge.
http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=500/26727Jan_20_coyotes_1-sitting_1-hunting_002.jpg
 
Do a little research and you will find the info on the Red Wolf reintroduction program in North Carolina. The program was started in the early 80s. The wolves are expanding / have expanded quite far from the Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge! From everything I have read, they are capable of cross breeding with dogs and coyotes. The offspring produced is fertile and not sterile for continued breeding.

Redhound80
 
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