Opinions wanted on the Browning A bolt and the Tikka T3 Hunter

The A-Bolt triggers are adjustable, but only down to 4 +/- lbs on my so-so trigger guage. The easy fix is to replace the factory spring with a Timney 'medium' or 'light' trigger spring. That will safely bring the pull down as low as you would want to go. I think as low as 1.5lbs with the light one. The med spring is in the 3 lb range or so. The trigger should also be able to be adjusted from this new lower reference pull weight. All my A-Bolts have a replacement Timney spring.
 
Harley,
You've received several thoughtful and helpful responses here. I really don't think you'd go wrong with either choice. I sure wish you could handle one, though. Way back when, I had my mind set on a Rem. 700 BDL just like my brother's...went to purchase it and handled the A-Bolt - that's the one I went home with.
Back then, there weren't any Tikka's or CZ's in my neck of the woods..only Browning, Rem., Win., and a few Ruger's.
 
The trigger on an albot is nice you can adjust it to about 3lbs I belive. My friend had a tikka 22-250 and it was one of the guns that got the bad batch of barrels and it blew up on him with factory loads, Tikka sent him a new one and is paying all medical bills for the injury to his hand. His new gun is great pretty accurate.
 
Okay fellas, here goes. My original post stated that I wanted to hear why you thought either of these guns were any better, or even as good as other makes in their price class. Nobody has given one reason yet........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

What I do not like about Tikka's, other than they are an abomination of Euro-trash styling, is the plastic mags, floorplates, and trigger guards. The non-integral recoil lug cannot be a good thing...Anyone ever try to bed one? Just wondering....How about the plastic bolt shrouds? Anyone ever seen one break? I have, and its NOT uncommon.. There are other rifles in the same price range that do not exhibit said characteristics and shoot just as well, Savges and Vanguards come to mind as well as do Rem 700's....

As for A-bolts, where can I start. The fit and feel of the stocks are poor. Barrel often touches side of stock.Wood models are glossy, easy to scratch, hard to repair, and reflect light. The bolt itself is one of the most complicated POS I've seen, hard to take apart, held together with pins and various other small parts. The Japs must need magnifying glasses to assemble one, seeing as how you can blindfold them with a strand of dental floss. The receivers are one of the least stiff out there. Less metal, large port. Gunnsmiths HATE A-bolts and some won't even touch one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Their is a total lack of aftermarket parts. They are REALLY hard to get rid of should you decide to sell. The magazine/floorplate or whatever you want to call the piece of crap is unnecessarily complicated and slow to load. The metal is also extremely brittle and tends to break instead of bend. Should it become loose or altered in any way, cartridges cease to feed correctly(not good gents). But now I'll tell you the single biggest POS the A-bolt has to offer--it's trigger group. An all-out abortion. Over complicated and more prone to failure than ANY I know of.......A Japanese cluster**** as one guy I know put it...

Here's a pic of an A-bolt trigger used in a harsh environment............
P1000313.jpg

Here's one of a (cheaper) M70 Win also subjected to the elements.........
m70triggerassyrusted.jpg


Guess which one won't fire and which one works just fine?! Note the rear "action screw" location on the A-bolt. Look a little out of place to anyone? It's on the damn trigger assembly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

Has anyone here ever seen one of the old "safari" model Brownings? It is more than obvious that this action was replaced by the new ones to cut costs.....

Can anyone name even 1 rifle builder that regularly uses Tikka's or A-bolts for their actions? I can't...

Okay, I could go on....interested in some responses here......Facts, not opinions.....2MG
 
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I don't think I read his name right is it 2muchgun or 2much beer?Because he must be drinking something strong if he thinks Tikka sucks,I was a machinist for 18 years and The Tikka is built better than guns costing twice as much,If he didn't have so many posts I would say he was a troller,:)



I'm particularly interested in hearing from this genius as to what guns costing twice as much aren't as good and why.......
 
TooMuch,

Where to start. First, I will not contest any of your
A-Bolt conclusions, since I don't own one, and some of the
points you make could be some of the reasons.

But on the Tikkas, well you asked for facts, yet you give
no facts about the issues you raise, other than you
claim the plastic bolt shroud breaks. OK, let's see a
show of hands, from past, or current Tikka owners that
have had that problem. I have two, I shoot them A LOT,
and have not broken a bolt shroud. I do not beat my
guns up, especially my bolt guns, so that may be one
reason I have never broken any plastic piece on any gun.
I do beat the crap out of a couple of AR-15s, and I
mean beat the crap out of them, and I have never broken
any plastic appointments on them.

In the strictest sense of the word, Tikka doesn't have
a plastic floor plate. It doesn't have a floor plate
at all. As for "Euro-trash styling", I guess one
man's trash is another's art. I have Savage rifles
that I might hint are homely. On the other hand, I
think Tikkas are "purty" Euro-trash /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif And as
for the non-integral recoil lug not being able to
be bedded, I am sorry to say that I have never met a
Tikka that needed bedding. So again where is the issue.
Yes Big Green needs to bed their actions, because
of their issues, but Tikkas shoot the way Remington
should, right out of the box. I have 2 Tikkas, 3 Savages,
and 2 Howas(Same manufacturer as Vanguard), and none
of them are bedded, and all shoot sub MOA. I do
free float them, and take care in putting the action
back into the stock with the same force on the action
screws, and that seems to do well enough to shoot
down in the .7 to .4 MOA range over these 7 rifles.

I can see you do not like Tikkas, but for all of the
folks that I know, that own them, I have never met one
that was dissatisfied, in person. I have read of a few
on the Internet forums, and a couple I consider credible.
I remember one person that had a cracked stock issue
that took forever to get resolved by Beretta. And if there
is one flaw with Tikkas, it is that Beretta owns them.
Their customer service SUCKS...But IMHO Tikka rifles
do not suck, and I have not ready anything in your
post that has changed my mind.

Squeeze
 
Not trying to change anyone's mind. Yes the styling is an opinion, but parts made of plastic where other guns costing the same have metal is a fact. So is the non-integral recoil lug, a real engineering masterpiece.... They are a "budget gun", plain and simple. I would not doubt if anyone has never tried to bed a Tikka, seeing as how only serious hunters tend to bed their rifles and none of them use Tikkas. If it makes you feel any better, I'd take one over a more expensive, yet less reliable A-bolt...........
 
2muchgun,Just so you know I have owned alot of guns in my time and I am 51 years old,Anyone that breaks plastic on a Tikka should only be allowed to hunt with a slingshot,I have had Remingtons,Wnchester,CZs,Rugers,Brownings,Bushmaster And alot of others Including A Cooper Varmint Extreme which I still own,The Tikkas machining is just as good if not better than most I have owned and still own including the Cooper,I don't claim to be a genius and never did,BUT then again I'm not the one that said these 2 guns suck,If you don't take care of your gun then none of them will last no matter who owns them or who makes them and that sure doesn't take a Genius to figure out.The Tikka might have a non-integral recoil lug but it doesn't stop mine from shooting inch and under groups in the 300 WSM that I own.By the way I have owned a Browning A-Bolt in 7 Mag,That was just as accurate as the others and never had a problem with it.When you tell a group of people that their guns suck don't expect them to sit back and not be offended.(It sure doesn't take a Genius to figure that out either.)
 
2muchgun, I thank you for answering and respect your opinion. You obviously know more about guns than I even want to.
I have been down the road of "custom" rifles and "gun smithed" rifles and am tired of it.
I own several Tikkas, have had no problems, they all shoot very well, for me. I have never been limited on a game shot by my rifle.
I have also owned several other brands of rifles. The one statement I will strongly take exception to is "serious hunters tend to bed their rifles" not on this planet.

I do not know any "serious hunters" that see the gun as anything more than a tool, not even one of the most important ones, in a "serious hunters" bag of tricks. Most of the "serious hunters" I have known use beat up, drug around, semi accurate, ugly, DEPENDABLE, standard caliber, firearms with deadly serious loads, no "sporting, challenging" combos for those boys, or any "whiz-bang" attachments. Serious shooters and serious hunters aint necessarly the same or different neither. LOL
thanks for sharing your knowledge and opinion,
Carl
 
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Well, 2muchgun, thanks for pointing those things out. I'll be honest - I don't necessarily half way understand all you're talking about..having never even taken a look inside an A-bolt.
BUT...I could point out that half-assed non-ergonimically-designed bolt lever on the Rem. 700. It feels like a 1/4
bolt that was bent over on an anvil as an afterthought.

All guns have their pros and cons and none of them "suck" in my opinion. They just have different characteristics.

Well, I've hunted and shot occasional benchrest with my A-Bolt for almost 20 years and have never had a problem. If it were to totally self-destruct today, I'd most likely purchase another....for the bolt handle and short bolt throw if nothing else.

Oh, one more thing: do you know just how simple it is to take the gloss off the stock and still have it looking good? I do, and it's easy. Besides, I've never, ever, had game scared off due to reflection off a stock.
 
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VE---Again no facts just unspecific opinion......I believe I held up my end of the bargain. Now it's your turn. What rifle costing twice as much as the Tikka is inferior and why?---2MG
 
Bofire---when I say serious hunters bed their rifles, what I mean is that your typical weekend warrior doesn't even know what glass bedding is. I also believe that most guides and professional hunters have bedded actions on their rifles if they are bolt-actions. POI change cannot be afforded. If you believe that most guides/PH's or serious riflemen simply pull a factory rig out of the box and call it good without bedding the action and doing trigger work then I would have to disagree with you. First they make 'em right, then they beat the chit out of 'em..........2MG
 
The A-bolt trigger assy is not worth a damn in a harsh environment(or any actually), and prone to failure almost beyond belief.....2MG
 
If I had to pick one gun that is the most fool-proof and reliable of any in the field, a pre-64 Win 70 action, rust proofed and bedded into a high quality composite stock. The trigger is as simple and reliable as it gets. The bolt can be field stripped by hand(no tools) and the firing pin can be changed, cleaned, or ice build-up removed. Take another look at the engineering diaster A-bolt trigger assy,(the bolt's no better either) and then at the M70's. Which one would you think is more reliable? The A-bolt is an over-engineered POS........I also like Rem 700's and certain Sakos. Some of the older Sako actions were simply Maaahvelous...The Wby Vanguard/Howa 1500 is a good action and highly under-rated. They are becoming more popular by the day for custom builds that don't break the bank....Gonna [beeep] off some more people when I say they are more accurate than the expensive Wby's, but it are true nonetheless.....2MG
 
Here's my "OPINION" based on 10 years of tough conditions with the A-Bolt .270. As a lefty, there weren't a lot of choices but between all of the ones that I handled, the A-Bolt felt the best. First trip to the range, I was impressed. Really impressed. I have reloaded for 30 yrs and have seen very few rifles as accurate out of the box as that rifle and it was with several different factory loads.

Never felt the need to adjust the trigger. Never had a need to disassemble the bolt. Never wanted to 'upgrade' or accessorize it. The barrel channel is consistent and does not touch the barrel at any point no matter where I rest it. A little stiffer stock might be an advantage, who knows?

I bought it to shoot Texas whitetails and it consistently filled the freezer. It shoots. It scores. Never had a problem loading it from the top. Never had a trigger malfunction. I like the 60 degree bolt throw and I like the detachable mags. I have two spare mags for it but have never needed to reload one in the field. As a lefty, I have grown accustomed to the tang safety. That's what my O/Us, SxS, BPS, and Savages have so it just feel natural to me.

I like being able to take care of minor nicks and scratches on both the stock and the barrel with a scotchbrite pad. The bore is so smooth that I can shoot 50 rds through it at the bench and just get a trace of copper out. What's not to like? It was purchased as a tool and has performed its job very well. As a hunting rifle, I would highly recommend an A-Bolt based on my experiences with my particular rifle.

No experience with the Tikka so I can't help you there.
 
Well boys (and girls) I am the new owner of a Tikka T3 Hunter in the flavor of 22-250. I went to a nice little gunshop located in the middle of nowhere about an hour away from me because I knew this shop owner was a big varmint hunter. Well he had the T3 on the shelf (several of them actually) but the bad thing was that is was priced $120 higher than what Bud's gunshop (big on-line store) had it for. Well the owner tried to sell it to me and I really wanted it but I told him he was much higher than what I could buy it online for - so I told him if he would price match I would walk out with it today. Well sure enough he took me at my word for what I told him the rifle and shipping would cost me and I bought it right then.
I got it sighted in today and just got back from come coyote hunting and all I can say is that I LOVE THIS RILFE!!! More to come tomorrow...
 
Compelling.......another gross generalization with no particulars...."I like my A-bolt it shoots, I killed a deer with it once...yada, yada,..."
 
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