PHOTOS OF DENS
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doggin coyotes
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: deermanHere sometimes the pickup chasers run the coyotes into farm buildings to escape.The only time they get out of the truck is to shoot or pee.Pretty sad spectacle.
Curious as to WHY you injected this into a thread about coyote den pictures?
As you say, pretty sad spectacle.
Curious as to WHY you injected this into a thread about coyote den pictures?
As you say, pretty sad spectacle.
Rich Cronk
New member
"Curious as to WHY you injected this into a thread about coyote den pictures?"
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Probably MY fault Doggin'. I mentioned the pickup guys as one reason the open country coyotes might crawl in to a hole or brush pile. I had already stated that coyotes digging out a hole during fall or winter was likely digging for food, like maybe a mouse, gopher or whatever.
ADCcoyote
New member
Kirby those holse are not true dens, many hidy holes in the snow a coyote will lay up in, but coyotes use dens to raise pups and won't do that until right before she is ready to drop pups. They will make many clean out holes and then pick one to have the pups in. In fact by mid July or a little later the majority have abandoned those dens holes.
Here are a few photos of coyote dens and locations in this area. Play ground can be seen,trails to the location.
Here are a few photos of coyote dens and locations in this area. Play ground can be seen,trails to the location.
ADCcoyote,
Coyotes around here, if chased or seek shelter from harsh weather, whatever. Will use an old den hole, culvert tube, brush pile or bed in a dip between picked corn rows. Or below a ridgeline, from the prevailing wind. Even in well below zero days. These non-covered bedding areas are on the leeward sides of hills mainly.
These shallow pocket holes, are not true dens as I've stated before. But are digs, I suspect from either chasing vermin, or picking out a suitable spot for a possible true den site.
Most coyotes in Iowa, most often choose the center area, or near it, of these mile sections. Especially if those areas, have timber or heavy low cover such as brush or weed patch's.
Ocasionally, I have found dens on open hillsides & or on terrace's.
Jist of my rambling, is their breeding/pr'ing-up season. This [January-February] finding. Which is not always in the time frame of what most experts claim. From what I've observed. I've seen early & late yearlings. I'm betting you have too.
What truely interests me. Is I wonder the claims of these experts. Whether someone truely did the leg work, put in many hrs of field time, observations & come to a conclusion. As to the pr'ing-up & breeding times. Of coyotes or Red Fox.
Then [most or all] of the other professional experts. Read, that person's finding's. Then agree, without doing their own field work, or putting in their time. To find out for themselves.
In central Iowa, after mid February. A spotter who hunts any given day of the wk. Will play heck finding any coyote out in the open. I've rarely seen a local [I.D'd]/female coyote in the open after that time period.
I've I.D'd these local pr's many times over the yrs. Those are my observations. I didn't read that somewhere & followed suit of sometone that DID put in their time. Et come to some agreeable conclusion.
As been stated before, once you believe you have something figured out, et it is now etched in stone[in your opinion]. Nature, will prove you wrong.
Coyotes around here, if chased or seek shelter from harsh weather, whatever. Will use an old den hole, culvert tube, brush pile or bed in a dip between picked corn rows. Or below a ridgeline, from the prevailing wind. Even in well below zero days. These non-covered bedding areas are on the leeward sides of hills mainly.
These shallow pocket holes, are not true dens as I've stated before. But are digs, I suspect from either chasing vermin, or picking out a suitable spot for a possible true den site.
Most coyotes in Iowa, most often choose the center area, or near it, of these mile sections. Especially if those areas, have timber or heavy low cover such as brush or weed patch's.
Ocasionally, I have found dens on open hillsides & or on terrace's.
Jist of my rambling, is their breeding/pr'ing-up season. This [January-February] finding. Which is not always in the time frame of what most experts claim. From what I've observed. I've seen early & late yearlings. I'm betting you have too.
What truely interests me. Is I wonder the claims of these experts. Whether someone truely did the leg work, put in many hrs of field time, observations & come to a conclusion
Then [most or all] of the other professional experts. Read, that person's finding's. Then agree, without doing their own field work, or putting in their time. To find out for themselves.
In central Iowa, after mid February. A spotter who hunts any given day of the wk. Will play heck finding any coyote out in the open. I've rarely seen a local [I.D'd]/female coyote in the open after that time period.
I've I.D'd these local pr's many times over the yrs. Those are my observations. I didn't read that somewhere & followed suit of sometone that DID put in their time. Et come to some agreeable conclusion
As been stated before, once you believe you have something figured out, et it is now etched in stone[in your opinion]. Nature, will prove you wrong.
Hoping not to stray off topic here again but.. In our area this winter pickup pursuit and entering every field with a pickup to either chase deer or coyotes sometimes daily, has been totally impossible at any time this winter.The behavoir of the coyotes has been completely different than I have seen in the 30 years I have hunted.I did not have a complete understanding of how much effect pickup style hunting has til this year.This year coyotes travel more openly all day long,I have seen more laying in open during the day this year than in all previous years put together possibly.I think I have seen between 40 and 50 laying out where I can glass them up. They do not head for deep cover on the first site of a pickup going by or even when tracking them and bump them off the nest.When tracking them they donot travel nearly as far before laying down again.Enjoyed the den pictures, I also do not consider every hole a den until it has a very pregnant female . It does not take long for the pups to fill the den up and require a move out.They may be moved several times to different dens before the last den in abandoned.Sorry if I strayed off topic too far.
ADCcoyote
New member
Deerman could it be because of less pressure you have more coyotes as well? No doubt that when you overuse a tool any of them you can change coyote behaviors to that tool. I'm betting you could have snared a pile of coyotes when truck useage was heavy.trapped the same. Coyotes do get habituiated to tools no doubt about it. Also depending on the age class of coyotes and population turnover annually as well.
Around here pickups mean bad things to coyotes but a tractor totally different reaction all dealing with pressure.
In ag ground denning locations can and will change with crop rotation and the pressure applied to these areas being different for crop types. In the west and pasture grounds and having spring grounds and fall grounds denning locations can and do stay the same in many places even though you have a total different family group now using the area.
Kirby defning early and late yearlings means much. Do I think there are females that give birth in the month of Feb? Might be a very rare occurance but not the norm anywhere I have chased coyotes. The vast majority fall in that time slot of very early april to the end of May. I have seen this from the evidance of killing these coyotes. We are talking the high% norm and that is where most coyotes fall. I don't think your pictures above are from a pair of active nursing coyotes. Many coyotes we pursue with good snow cover have hidy holes to escape to they have to becuase of pressure applied with many tools they have come to know.
Just like the reports that show pressure applied will lead to larger litters, that has been shown not to be the case in areas of exploited coyotes, becuase your taking out many of those coyote in the prime breeding age class when they have larger litters. In areas protected and with ample food supply one might see a small increase, but in areas of annual, year round control you see less than .5 coyote pup per female variance.
Most young female coyotes have shown to have 1-3 coyotes, the vast majority have 4-6 coyote pups and these are those 2-5 year old females. By taking out those prime age breeding females you simply won't have the litter size increase some studies have shown. Again many studies are done in controlled enviroments and areas of less pressure applied we all need to keep them in context when compairing them within our area. My numbers aren't from a book or paper but from actual field observations.
Factor in mange and the absense of many of those younger females being able to reproduce, you have less population overall but those females left to breed will raise the number somewhat becuase the age class of those females in the population at that time one maybe doing a study. Then the thought comes in that they are rising in pup count, one must factor in alot of variables to any study. If you caught the mange on and upswing or down swing could have alot to do with end results.
Around here pickups mean bad things to coyotes but a tractor totally different reaction all dealing with pressure.
In ag ground denning locations can and will change with crop rotation and the pressure applied to these areas being different for crop types. In the west and pasture grounds and having spring grounds and fall grounds denning locations can and do stay the same in many places even though you have a total different family group now using the area.
Kirby defning early and late yearlings means much. Do I think there are females that give birth in the month of Feb? Might be a very rare occurance but not the norm anywhere I have chased coyotes. The vast majority fall in that time slot of very early april to the end of May. I have seen this from the evidance of killing these coyotes. We are talking the high% norm and that is where most coyotes fall. I don't think your pictures above are from a pair of active nursing coyotes. Many coyotes we pursue with good snow cover have hidy holes to escape to they have to becuase of pressure applied with many tools they have come to know.
Just like the reports that show pressure applied will lead to larger litters, that has been shown not to be the case in areas of exploited coyotes, becuase your taking out many of those coyote in the prime breeding age class when they have larger litters. In areas protected and with ample food supply one might see a small increase, but in areas of annual, year round control you see less than .5 coyote pup per female variance.
Most young female coyotes have shown to have 1-3 coyotes, the vast majority have 4-6 coyote pups and these are those 2-5 year old females. By taking out those prime age breeding females you simply won't have the litter size increase some studies have shown. Again many studies are done in controlled enviroments and areas of less pressure applied we all need to keep them in context when compairing them within our area. My numbers aren't from a book or paper but from actual field observations.
Factor in mange and the absense of many of those younger females being able to reproduce, you have less population overall but those females left to breed will raise the number somewhat becuase the age class of those females in the population at that time one maybe doing a study. Then the thought comes in that they are rising in pup count, one must factor in alot of variables to any study. If you caught the mange on and upswing or down swing could have alot to do with end results.
ADCcoyote, "not the norm" is what I refer to. Do I believe the above female of the pr, was nursing? NO! LOL! What I believe about her is, she was preparing...So when she did give birth. She would already have a place to give birth. I can't prove it, obviously. But I believe that female had already been bred. Et, she/they had the instinct to have a den prepared.
The "family group" I shown pics of previously. I believe the primary reason, their yearlings were scattered/dispersed. Was the adult female was in heat. Just so happens, I happen to see them altogether that day. Et the pups were scattered, the following day.
That perticular pr of the family group, I had watched for some yrs now. Maybe 5-6? From yr to yr, I would see them ocasionally with 4-5 yearlings in their group. Excluding the adults. One day, there was 6 yearlings. 4 pups with the adults & two yearlings a couple hundred yards away, bedded in a grassy draw. These sighting were around mid-December, if I recall correctly. GOD forbid, if I steer someone wrong, with bogus info LOL!
I hunted my main hunt area hard the last couple of days. Not "1" track anywhere. Truck hunters hit my old hunt area hard this yr. killing 37 coyotes, from what I was told. These 37, were in my 4-8 sq mile main hunt area. The coyotes, never stood a chance.
I believe when scattering of that yr's pups. Occurs when the adult female is in heat. Digging a den hole, soon follows.
The "family group" I shown pics of previously. I believe the primary reason, their yearlings were scattered/dispersed. Was the adult female was in heat. Just so happens, I happen to see them altogether that day. Et the pups were scattered, the following day.
That perticular pr of the family group, I had watched for some yrs now. Maybe 5-6? From yr to yr, I would see them ocasionally with 4-5 yearlings in their group. Excluding the adults. One day, there was 6 yearlings. 4 pups with the adults & two yearlings a couple hundred yards away, bedded in a grassy draw. These sighting were around mid-December, if I recall correctly. GOD forbid, if I steer someone wrong, with bogus info LOL!
I hunted my main hunt area hard the last couple of days. Not "1" track anywhere. Truck hunters hit my old hunt area hard this yr. killing 37 coyotes, from what I was told. These 37, were in my 4-8 sq mile main hunt area. The coyotes, never stood a chance.
I believe when scattering of that yr's pups. Occurs when the adult female is in heat. Digging a den hole, soon follows.
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ADCcoyote
New member
37 coyotes in a 4x8 mile area???? The rest, all I can say is if you think she was doing clean out in the snow at the first part of Feb then go for it.
If that was the case then many,many coyotes seen from our plane would all be doing clean outs for the last month. LOL!!
The other point if your main area is good coyote habitat it will fill back in from now until april that I would be willing to gurantee. WE have areas we kill alot of coyotes out of let them rest and 2 weeks later we kill into the double digits again. These coyote pairs are very mobil this time of year and will be so up until pup drop.
You never get them all don't care how many trucks a guy has or airplanes for that matter. I'm not trying to be brash but where you cover 40 sq miles I'm covering 2,000+ and over varying habitat and conditions from river breaks to large wide open prairie. Around sheepmen and cattle producers. Varying degrees of pressure and techniques used and I sumize my thoughts and words from what I have seen in the field and chasing them in 3 different states in my time. Good ol' Iowa being one of them. Good day Kirby.
If that was the case then many,many coyotes seen from our plane would all be doing clean outs for the last month. LOL!!
The other point if your main area is good coyote habitat it will fill back in from now until april that I would be willing to gurantee. WE have areas we kill alot of coyotes out of let them rest and 2 weeks later we kill into the double digits again. These coyote pairs are very mobil this time of year and will be so up until pup drop.
You never get them all don't care how many trucks a guy has or airplanes for that matter. I'm not trying to be brash but where you cover 40 sq miles I'm covering 2,000+ and over varying habitat and conditions from river breaks to large wide open prairie. Around sheepmen and cattle producers. Varying degrees of pressure and techniques used and I sumize my thoughts and words from what I have seen in the field and chasing them in 3 different states in my time. Good ol' Iowa being one of them. Good day Kirby.
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so kirby , if your area is 4 sqaure mile that would be over 9 coyotes per square mile , which would require more than one family group per square mile.Or if 8 square miles would still be almost 5 coyotes per square mile. For each and every square mile. I question that kind of population dynamics exists
ADC ...it is probably obvious there would be more coyotes all season long if the truck hunters are not removing as many.My main point is the evident difference in behaviour when vehicle pursuit(and I mean with the front bumper) does not occur.It is just amazing.I certainly agree with you on the "filling in" .Areas here can have enough coyotes removed to leave practically no sign by season's end and yet will be back to normal numbers by the next season. I was also wondering Iowa does not or ever did have ADC or WS did they???
ADC ...it is probably obvious there would be more coyotes all season long if the truck hunters are not removing as many.My main point is the evident difference in behaviour when vehicle pursuit(and I mean with the front bumper) does not occur.It is just amazing.I certainly agree with you on the "filling in" .Areas here can have enough coyotes removed to leave practically no sign by season's end and yet will be back to normal numbers by the next season. I was also wondering Iowa does not or ever did have ADC or WS did they???
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Well that number seemed mighty high to me as well. I didn't ask perticulars on whether they killed coyotes on the outer fringes. I assume they did, as I never seen that many in that area. Also that high number, could've involved nomads passing through? Who knows? ...who cares?, I don't. I didn't figure a casual discussion, warranted calling the guy a BS'er.
Over the yrs, I figured 4-5 family groups within that area. Depending on pup numbers, before they scattered to outside areas.
As for that pr of coyotes cleaning out that hole. Why else would they do that. For exercise? LOL!
Same as a pr of Red Fox cleaning out a den hole in November. I suppose they needed the excercise as well? LOL!
Over the yrs, I figured 4-5 family groups within that area. Depending on pup numbers, before they scattered to outside areas.
As for that pr of coyotes cleaning out that hole. Why else would they do that. For exercise? LOL!
Same as a pr of Red Fox cleaning out a den hole in November. I suppose they needed the excercise as well? LOL!
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Kirby , what is the nature of the habitat that you said may be 4 square miles and have 4 or 5 family groups.It must be quite different than here. A family group per one square mile here would not be likely..That would be an extremely small territory and socially maybe not be acceptable to a breeding pair and their young.Here I am just guessing that we normally sustain about 1 to 1 1/2 coyotes per square mile.I have plotted my kills and sighting on a map and roughly arrived at that number over the years.. Nothing scientific .
deerman, in central Iowa. My main hunt area is 4x8 square mile in demension. Which = 32 square miles. It is mostly open rolling hilled cropland, with grassy creeks & timber patch's of an acre or so. Local pr's territory's are roughly 3-5 sq miles. Shaped irregular & over-lap.
Main hunt area, is where I have many acre's with standing permission to hunt. I hunt 3 county's each Winter. Not just this small area.
Over the yrs, I have I.D'd various pr's. I know their area's quite well.
Main hunt area, is where I have many acre's with standing permission to hunt. I hunt 3 county's each Winter. Not just this small area.
Over the yrs, I have I.D'd various pr's. I know their area's quite well.
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Tactical .20
New member
That many in one area is possible. Some family groups have more adults than just the alpha pair. If 3 groups have boudries that meet in that area, also adds too a possible total take. Many other things like a carcass will bring some from miles away. I took 4 large adult males in one spot one season. 2 of them 30yds apart in same night. They were large and old enough to be the alpha males of two groups. In a 3x2 mile area I trapped 13 coyotes, and a week later a farmer saw 6 cross his field, single file, 2 miles or less west of that spot.
Kirby ,I thought you meant an area 4to8 square miles by your earlier post.. 37 coyotes in 32 square miles is doable.
Tac.20 , seen similar results here, Your area and the numbers involved are like I have seen here year after year.Have a female I have shot 3 large males within a half mile and bet there is another there right now.
Tac.20 , seen similar results here, Your area and the numbers involved are like I have seen here year after year.Have a female I have shot 3 large males within a half mile and bet there is another there right now.
deerman, I see looking back, I should've put an X, rather than -. Didn't intend to confuse anyone.
Speaking of what I believe ADCcoyote mentioned about coyotes digging/laying in a "dug out". Can't say I ever seen such a thing. Around here, some will move some snow around, then spin tamping down the loose snow, before bedding down. That is routine. A domestic dog on the other hand, I've had dogs, dig a shallow[very shallow] dip. But never a DEEP hole, like the male coyote my pics above.
NEVER, seen a coyote or a Red move any amount of dirt or dig a pocket/trench in soil, whatever, just to bed. Must be a Western thing
.
Speaking of what I believe ADCcoyote mentioned about coyotes digging/laying in a "dug out". Can't say I ever seen such a thing. Around here, some will move some snow around, then spin tamping down the loose snow, before bedding down. That is routine. A domestic dog on the other hand, I've had dogs, dig a shallow[very shallow] dip. But never a DEEP hole, like the male coyote my pics above.
NEVER, seen a coyote or a Red move any amount of dirt or dig a pocket/trench in soil, whatever, just to bed. Must be a Western thing
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