Public School vs Private School vs. Home Schooling - your opinion is needed

Since you want opinions, here are some of the opinions of Albert Shanker, president of the United Federation of Teachers from 1964 to 1984 as well as President of the American Federation of Teachers from 1974 to 1997:

"It's time to admit that public education operates like a planned economy, a bureaucratic system in which everybody's role is spelled out in advance and there are few incentives for innovation and productivity. It's no surprise that our school system doesn't improve: It more resembles the communist economy than our own market economy."

“When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of school children.”

"a lot of people who have been hired as teachers are basically not competent"

“We've got a lemon factory and we're turning out 80-85 percent lemons.”
 
Latest available SAT scores from the college board (2007).

Table 6: Type of High School

SAT Reasoning Test Mean Scores

.........................Reading Mathematics Writing
Public......................498.......509.........488
Religiously Affiliate.....531.......526.........527
Independent.............546 ......569 ........548
 
Originally Posted By: jeffoOriginally Posted By: sweatybettyOriginally Posted By: skeet987 I guess you could say i'm street smart, but the one that is the key is COMMON SENSE.

my personal opinion is that common sense will get you farther than any piece of paper. and by farther i dont mean big money.


Just curious, what do you mean by "farther"?

good question jeffo. im going to have to think this one out
mad.gif
grin.gif
 
RedneckRepublic,
I apologize, I should have said that with my personal experience and from what i've seen with other's that the public school system around here IMO is a failure. I know of two kid's that was home schooled until high school age and they enrolled into a public school. They graduated, both in their early twenties now and both with problem's. The boy is a big time drug user/dealer and the girl is loose as a goose and all over the place with a ton of issues. Chalk it up to bad influences I guess.

"It is sort of the "everybody in school must be a loser" attitude that I see a lot of."

Nowhere did i even hint around that anyone in or that has been in a public school is a loser. I think it is just the opposite. I think that people think of home schooled kids that way. The crap that people say about home schooled kids like "they are'nt getting the social interaction that they need". Heck I guess i should be a murderer or a rapist because i'm not socially adjusted. Or "They won't have the career opportunities that a educated kid will have". Heck I guess I have a good reason to be on welfare huh? The only reason I mentioned how much money I make is to show that even a kid that only had 5 grade school year's of education from a professional public teacher can make a good life for himself. By no mean's was I gloating.


'If you took your GED when you were 22 then I would expect you to pass"

Why would you expect me to pass? Again, I was only in the public school system from K-5th grade. Don't you think it's odd that with that little bit of schooling that I passed the GED with above average score's?

"I don't think that money necessarily equates happiness and success in life."
"That said the education you get in a classroom is not everything. There are more important things than money and education but we often tend to forget that."

I agree with these statements 110%

Listen guy's, I'm not here to put down public school's or anyone that attends/attended a public school. I just don't agree with what public school's are doing. Taking god out of school, teaching our grade schoolers about sex, etc,etc,etc. Maybe not everywhere not yet but it's coming. The government is teaching OUR kid's what they want. PARENT'S CAN'T BE PARENT'S ANYMORE. We don't have the right to teach our kid's what WE THINK they should be taught. We can't discipline our kid's anymore. I was'nt lucky enough to get to sit in time out. I was lucky if I could even sit. If some of you guy's think that proper schooling is more important then raising your own childeren then by all mean's do what you got to do. I promise you I won't look down upon you or your family or disrespect any of you for it because that's your choice. To each his own. I'm not saying my views are right and your's are wrong but you can't tell me there is'nt something in a public school that you don't agree with.
 
And about my career, It's not to personal at all. My occupation has been on my profile since I joined here. I'm a Tow Boat Pilot. Alot of people have no clue what a tow boat is or what it does. If you would be willing to watch this video I found on youtube it will give you a good idea. I don't know the guy that made this video but he seem's to have a little bit of knowledge about the river industry. I "drive" boat's like this one, some smaller some bigger but you'll get the general idea. I hope alot of you will take the time to watch the video. The river industry is a big part of all our live's and many people are'nt even aware of it.

 
Now THAT'S a cool job Chris!!! Your name isn't Clemens by any chance is it?

I've wondered. I know in the piloting days of Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) the river was constantly changing. It was said then that a pilot that left it for 2 months would have to learn it all over again.

Today with all the levees etc and modern equipment, is it still that way or is it more stable now?

The video is cool too, though it took me 40 minutes to download with my pos net service.
 
mleon, Earlier in this thread, you stated that you form your opinions based on fact, however on another thread you give you opinion based on your "limited personal experience". Apparently you form your opinion based on whatever supports your opinion. Now I'm really confused????


Mike
 
People talk about homeschooled kids having trouble adjusting to society as if they lived in solitary confinement without any outside stimulation.

Do they not have tv?

Does Church, 4-H, sports, parents' organizations not factor into this at all?

Why should this even be an issue in talking about the differences. As was said before, no man is an island.
 
Originally Posted By: nmleonSince you want opinions, here are some of the opinions of Albert Shanker, president of the United Federation of Teachers from 1964 to 1984 as well as President of the American Federation of Teachers from 1974 to 1997:

If you read the thread title I ask for YOUR opinion. Not the opinion of someone who wrote an article. I want to hear personal opinion and personal experiences rather than studies and research.
 
“I apologize, I should have said that with my personal experience and from what i've seen with other's that the public school system around here IMO is a failure. I know of two kid's that was home schooled until high school age and they enrolled into a public school. They graduated, both in their early twenties now and both with problem's. The boy is a big time drug user/dealer and the girl is loose as a goose and all over the place with a ton of issues. Chalk it up to bad influences I guess.”

Thanks for clarifying but I didn’t want you to apologize. I am sorry you have had a bad experience with your local public school system. However, I am not sure that the two home schooled children you are talking about necessarily became bad people because they went to public schools. It could be that they were going to turn out bad anyway, we just don’t know. Did the public school cause them to be bad? Maybe and maybe not.

“Nowhere did i even hint around that anyone in or that has been in a public school is a loser. I think it is just the opposite. I think that people think of home schooled kids that way. The crap that people say about home schooled kids like "they are'nt getting the social interaction that they need". Heck I guess i should be a murderer or a rapist because i'm not socially adjusted. Or "They won't have the career opportunities that a educated kid will have". Heck I guess I have a good reason to be on welfare huh? The only reason I mentioned how much money I make is to show that even a kid that only had 5 grade school year's of education from a professional public teacher can make a good life for himself. By no mean's was I gloating.”

No I wasn’t necessarily referring to you on this one just the general attitude that I see. I was mainly talking about the attitude towards public education that exists. It is often perpetrated by those who don’t necessarily know much of anything about education but they sure like to air out their opinions on the matter. The problem is that when you push these people on the issue you find that most of the time they don’t have any real solutions with how to fix our education system. Again I was not directly referring to you but the attitude I see all the time. When I went back and looked at this sentence it looks as though I may have edited and deleted something that explained the reference better, but I don’t remember what now.

As for home schooled kids not being social adjusted that is not something I said. We have very few home schooled kids in my area. Many of them are simply staying home and the teachers are coming to them. That means in many cases they have to physically visit the home and teach these students because the parents either cannot or will not. There is only one private school in this region and quite frankly I wouldn’t send my dog to it.

I also never said you should be on welfare. Nor did I doubt that you could make that kind of money with only a fifth grade education. I knew a man who had only a third grade education and could not read or write. However, he owned numerous businesses and by the time he died was quite wealthy. Yet he understood how important education was and his children and grandchildren.

“Why would you expect me to pass? Again, I was only in the public school system from K-5th grade. Don't you think it's odd that with that little bit of schooling that I passed the GED with above average score's?”

I would expect you to pass because one of the first things I learned as a teacher is that a test doesn’t always tell you what a child knows one way or the other. GED is like the SOL’s, which we were always taught to call multiple guess, meaning that it is fairly easy to guess your way through the test. I’m not saying you did that Chris but when you have four answers to choose from and you can eliminate two than you have at least a 50% chance of getting the right answer, and the odds are in your favor. You were also older and doing it for your own benefit which is different than those who are doing something because they feel they must.
thumbup.gif


“Listen guy's, I'm not here to put down public school's or anyone that attends/attended a public school. I just don't agree with what public school's are doing. Taking god out of school, teaching our grade schoolers about sex, etc,etc,etc. Maybe not everywhere not yet but it's coming. The government is teaching OUR kid's what they want. PARENT'S CAN'T BE PARENT'S ANYMORE. We don't have the right to teach our kid's what WE THINK they should be taught. We can't discipline our kid's anymore. I was'nt lucky enough to get to sit in time out. I was lucky if I could even sit. If some of you guy's think that proper schooling is more important then raising your own childeren then by all mean's do what you got to do. I promise you I won't look down upon you or your family or disrespect any of you for it because that's your choice. To each his own. I'm not saying my views are right and your's are wrong but you can't tell me there is'nt something in a public school that you don't agree with.”

I agree with you about the “to each his own” statement. I know what you mean and I do my best when it comes to the discussions of private vs. public vs. home school on this forum to not take a side. I think all have a place in our society and it is easy to point fingers at the schools and teachers and say it is somebody else’s fault and not our own.

“And about my career, It's not to personal at all. My occupation has been on my profile since I joined here. I'm a Tow Boat Pilot. Alot of people have no clue what a tow boat is or what it does. If you would be willing to watch this video I found on youtube it will give you a good idea. I don't know the guy that made this video but he seem's to have a little bit of knowledge about the river industry. I "drive" boat's like this one, some smaller some bigger but you'll get the general idea. I hope alot of you will take the time to watch the video. The river industry is a big part of all our live's and many people are'nt even aware of it.”

Actually Chris I just hadn’t thought to look under your profile to find out what your occupation is. Thanks for the video.
thumbup.gif
To bad you don’t conduct a train because my son is train crazy. I actually ask because we live in the mountains as well so I guess my curiosity got the best of me. Most of the people I know don’t do that well, not because they don’t try but because our area is considered economically depressed.
 
I have to chime in on this..I am a seventeen year old who has been homeschooled my whole life(I also went to a highschool for part time vo-ag classes)So I have seen both sides of the story..I would sit in the classes just amazed at how the other kids acted and couldnt do they work because they just wouldnt try.(not a compliment) I also have dealt with the whole debate of your not getting the social stimulation you need...Oh I very much agree after all I'm only in 4-h,ffa,multiple farming, hunting, shooting, and riding activities, have alot of friends and have quite a bit of self confidence.prolly too much if you were to ask my mother =P I honestly think It was the best choice for me and would do it over again.I'm also going for my GED soon and going to a school in NY for auto mechanics
 
Perhaps it bears repeating:

"I do my best when it comes to the discussions of private vs. public vs. home school on this forum to not take a side."

Sorry, All Bark No Bite I just want get into an arguement with you on it.
 
My breaking point with public schools came when my son was in 3rd grade. I was going to spank him, for what, I don't remember, and he points his finger at me and says if I spank him, he'll tell his teacher, who will call the cops to arrest me! He started 4th grade in parochial school. Both he and my daughter graduated from parochial high school.

I worked 2 full time jobs, and my wife volunteered at the school, to help with the tuition. Was it worth it, you may ask. Absolutley!

If you can get your kids out of government run schools, do it.
 
Redneck Republic,My comment was in no way directed towards anything you had said. I was just showing another side of the story.Straight from the horses mouth I guess you could say.No hard feelings..but if you wanna argue Im good for that too..just kiddin
 
Originally Posted By: K-22hornet.My breaking point with public schools came when my son was in 3rd grade. I was going to spank him, for what, I don't remember, and he points his finger at me and says if I spank him, he'll tell his teacher, who will call the cops to arrest me! He started 4th grade in parochial school. Both he and my daughter graduated from parochial high school.

I worked 2 full time jobs, and my wife volunteered at the school, to help with the tuition. Was it worth it, you may ask. Absolutley!

If you can get your kids out of government run schools, do it.



Sounds like your kids got a great education outside public schools but typically no cops are called for the spanking of a child by a parent unless the parent hits him hard enough to leave bruising on an area outside of his clothes.

The exact reporting scenario will occur if you're son/daughter looks like the injury they sustain could have been from a parent or legal guardian. Questions will be asked to ascertain the cause off the injury and if child abuse is suspected, CPS is called, not the cops initially.
 
Skeet, you obviously have a little more than common sense. Getting a boat captains license is not that easy of a task.

drscott
 
Quote:mleon, Earlier in this thread, you stated that you form your opinions based on fact, however on another thread you give you opinion based on your "limited personal experience". Apparently you form your opinion based on whatever supports your opinion. Now I'm really confused????


"It is my strong suspicion based on MY personal experience..."

That the one you are talking about Mike?

If and when I DON'T have actual data to back up a position, I will identify it as such, as in "limited personal experience".



Quote:If you read the thread title I ask for YOUR opinion. Not the opinion of someone who wrote an article. I want to hear personal opinion and personal experiences rather than studies and research.

And you have NO authority here to direct a thread. You are a guest, not a moderator.

That aside, I would have thought you would be very interested in the opinion of the president of the second largest teachers union.

Quote:"It's time to admit that public education operates like a planned economy, a bureaucratic system in which everybody's role is spelled out in advance and there are few incentives for innovation and productivity. It's no surprise that our school system doesn't improve: It more resembles the communist economy than our own market economy."

“When school children start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of school children.”

"a lot of people who have been hired as teachers are basically not competent"

“We've got a lemon factory and we're turning out 80-85 percent lemons.”


That was NOT from an "article someone wrote". You have continuously and disparagingly mischaracterized data I've presented as being from "articles" when you know it isn't true. Most of it has been from scientifically valid rigorous analyses done by people with FAR more education than you, FAR better academic credentials than you (many full professors), and FAR more experience in education policy than you.

You do probably have FAR more experience than them at teaching 6th graders in Gilbert school district though.




Quote:Sounds like your kids got a great education outside public schools but typically no cops are called for the spanking of a child by a parent unless the parent hits him hard enough to leave bruising on an area outside of his clothes.

That's typically (but not always) true.

Isn't it instructive though that a 3rd grader would think that he could pull that? I wonder where he learned it?

Good thing he k-22 hornet wasn't going to give him the spanking on the school grounds though, huh?
 
nmleon, No my name is'nt Clemens.
As far as the river changing I'm sure it is alot more stable these days then it was many moons ago. A levee is basicly just a flood wall that keep's the river from flooding town's and such. On the lower Mississippi river it seems that the biggest problem is bank erosion. Just this past fall and winter I was working with the USACE putting in dike's along the bank's of the river near Greenville Miss. to help against erosion. There are natural dike's that over time will form into a "hill" and could cause a barge to get stuck on but other then that you don't really see a big change. Maybe if I was able to go back to a spot in 50 year's I might see a change but i'd say it would'nt be much of one. Most of my river experience come's on the Allegheny,Monongahela,Kanawha and Ohio rivers. All these river's have lock and dam structure's that regulate the flow of the river and since I've been piloting boats I have seen no significant change. The Lower Mississippi river has no such structure's.
Sorry it took ya 40 minute's to view the video but thank's for taking the time to watch it.
thumbup.gif
 
redneck, About the 2 kid's that went "bad" I did say that you could probablly mark it as bad influences. I'm not pointing my finger at teacher's or public school's directly but as a whole. (this is not directed to you but just saying) I'm sorry but the people that say you can't get a good education from home are ignorant. I think for the people that choose to home school their kid's it is'nt just about academic's. At home our kid's don't have to walk through metal detector's and have cop's patrolling our living room's. No worrie's about little Johnny bringing gun's or little Abby being shown how to put a condom on a penis. We can have our bible laying on the coffee table w/out ridicule just to name a few. I think for alot of us it goes way beyond academics.
This is a pretty good poem.

NEW SCHOOL PRAYER .

Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That’s no offense; it’s a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend some with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God’s name is prohibited by the state.

We’re allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They’ve outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.

We can a pregnant Senior Queen,
And ‘unwed daddy,’ as our Senior King.
It’s “inappropriate” to teach right from wrong,
We’re taught such “judgments” do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed.
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It’s scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school’s a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; my soul please take!
Amen

 
Back
Top