purpose of cotton in brass after powder

Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmintOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmint
A packed case would have a different burn rate than non packed case correct? Lets try it this way. Take a pvc pipe with a cap on it and stand up right on table. Fill a 1/4 full with powder. Now lay that pipe down and spread that powder out long ways. Now you are going to have a faster burn rate because of the air and the ability for the flame to travel over and ignitiing more gr. faster than if it was packed.

The powder will burn up faster spread out more than if it was compressed. Take a handful of sawdust and place it neatly in the fire,then take that same handful and throw it in the fire. The hand thrown sawdust is going to burn right now.

WHAT???

You gotta be kidding. Is this a 4th grade science project? You get an "F".



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Just making it easier to understand. The point is still the same. Pressure would be different from the same amount of powder if it was only packed a different way.

NOT...

You are guessing.... and you are wrong!


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Then why do they make different primers? Some burn hoter than others. If a type of powder burns at the same rate then a magnum primer would not build higher pressures than non magnum primers.
 
Originally Posted By: predyotevarmintThen why do they make different primers? Some burn hoter than others. If a type of powder burns at the same rate then a magnum primer would not build higher pressures than non magnum primers.

Have you ever tried to light a piece of wood with a match vs. a blow torch? The torch lights it hella lot quicker without the characteristic of the wood changing 1 iota. Same concept with primers, thus Magnum primers are use to ignite "harder to ignite" powders. Doesn't change the characteristic of the powder's burn rate at all.
 
Originally Posted By: SShooterZOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmintThen why do they make different primers? Some burn hoter than others. If a type of powder burns at the same rate then a magnum primer would not build higher pressures than non magnum primers.

Have you ever tried to light a piece of wood with a match vs. a blow torch? The torch lights it hella lot quicker without the characteristic of the wood changing 1 iota. Same concept with primers, thus Magnum primers are use to ignite "harder to ignite" powders. Doesn't change the characteristic of the powder's burn rate at all.

It does change the pressure though is my point. I am not arguing that the burn rate of the powder changes,That when it is burned different pace there is going to be a change in pressure.

This brings me to another thought that contradicts what I just wrote. If it burns at the same rate,then how can it be temp sensitive? Wouldnt the powder now be burnibg at a different rate say 90 degrees compared to 30?
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Originally Posted By: predyotevarmintOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmintOriginally Posted By: CatShooter

WHAT???

You gotta be kidding. Is this a 4th grade science project? You get an "F".



.

Just making it easier to understand. The point is still the same. Pressure would be different from the same amount of powder if it was only packed a different way.

NOT...

You are guessing.... and you are wrong!


.

Then why do they make different primers? Some burn hoter than others. If a type of powder burns at the same rate then a magnum primer would not build higher pressures than non magnum primers.

Also not true - your "logic" is badly failing you.
 
Originally Posted By: predyotevarmintOriginally Posted By: SShooterZOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmintThen why do they make different primers? Some burn hoter than others. If a type of powder burns at the same rate then a magnum primer would not build higher pressures than non magnum primers.

Have you ever tried to light a piece of wood with a match vs. a blow torch? The torch lights it hella lot quicker without the characteristic of the wood changing 1 iota. Same concept with primers, thus Magnum primers are use to ignite "harder to ignite" powders. Doesn't change the characteristic of the powder's burn rate at all.

It does change the pressure though is my point. I am not arguing that the burn rate of the powder changes,That when it is burned different pace there is going to be a change in pressure.

This brings me to another thought that contradicts what I just wrote. If it burns at the same rate,then how can it be temp sensitive? Wouldnt the powder now be burnibg at a different rate say 90 degrees compared to 30?
unsure.gif


It does NOT - you are making this up as you go.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmintOriginally Posted By: SShooterZOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmintThen why do they make different primers? Some burn hoter than others. If a type of powder burns at the same rate then a magnum primer would not build higher pressures than non magnum primers.

Have you ever tried to light a piece of wood with a match vs. a blow torch? The torch lights it hella lot quicker without the characteristic of the wood changing 1 iota. Same concept with primers, thus Magnum primers are use to ignite "harder to ignite" powders. Doesn't change the characteristic of the powder's burn rate at all.

It does change the pressure though is my point. I am not arguing that the burn rate of the powder changes,That when it is burned different pace there is going to be a change in pressure.

This brings me to another thought that contradicts what I just wrote. If it burns at the same rate,then how can it be temp sensitive? Wouldnt the powder now be burnibg at a different rate say 90 degrees compared to 30?
unsure.gif


It does NOT - you are making this up as you go.




Primers affect the pressure generated by the cartridge. Changing from standard to magnum primers may substantially raise the maximum average pressure of the cartridge and indiscriminate changes are not recommended. The A-Square Company conducted pressure tests involving six different primers. These tests used the 7mm Remington Magnum cartridge with a 160 grain Sierra BT bullet and 66.0 grains of H4831 powder and the results were reported in the A-Square reloading manual Any Shot You Want. A-Square used CCI 200 and 250, Federal 215, Remington 9 1/2M, and Winchester WLRM and WLR primers in these tests. They revealed a total spread in pressure of 12,800 psi from the mildest standard (the CCI 200) to the hottest magnum (WLRM) primer tested.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm
 
Originally Posted By: predyotevarmint

Primers affect the pressure generated by the cartridge. Changing from standard to magnum primers may substantially raise the maximum average pressure of the cartridge and indiscriminate changes are not recommended. The A-Square Company conducted pressure tests involving six different primers. These tests used the 7mm Remington Magnum cartridge with a 160 grain Sierra BT bullet and 66.0 grains of H4831 powder and the results were reported in the A-Square reloading manual Any Shot You Want. A-Square used CCI 200 and 250, Federal 215, Remington 9 1/2M, and Winchester WLRM and WLR primers in these tests. They revealed a total spread in pressure of 12,800 psi from the mildest standard (the CCI 200) to the hottest magnum (WLRM) primer tested.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm



You are making the same mistake that many on forums make - you make erroneous statements, trying to sound like you are an expert - but you have never done what you are talking about, and don't understand it - you just read it somewhere, and are parroting it, mostely out of contest.

You are trying to defend erroneous comments by goggling and cherry picking things others have said, without knowing whether the writing are correct, or knowing what their source is, or without knowing how to interpret the writings.

The more you try, the worse you make it.

I do this stuff for a living - I own a pressure gun, and I have run thousands of rounds through pressure guns.

And other than being an internet "expert" in Google, your ballistic background is ... ???

... when you know what you are talking about, we can talk - right now, you don't even have the proper basic language and grammar to have the discussion.


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Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmint

Primers affect the pressure generated by the cartridge. Changing from standard to magnum primers may substantially raise the maximum average pressure of the cartridge and indiscriminate changes are not recommended. The A-Square Company conducted pressure tests involving six different primers. These tests used the 7mm Remington Magnum cartridge with a 160 grain Sierra BT bullet and 66.0 grains of H4831 powder and the results were reported in the A-Square reloading manual Any Shot You Want. A-Square used CCI 200 and 250, Federal 215, Remington 9 1/2M, and Winchester WLRM and WLR primers in these tests. They revealed a total spread in pressure of 12,800 psi from the mildest standard (the CCI 200) to the hottest magnum (WLRM) primer tested.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/primers.htm



You are making the same mistake that many on forums make - you make erroneous statements, trying to sound like you are an expert - but you have never done what you are talking about, and don't understand it - you just read it somewhere, and are parroting it, mostely out of contest.

You are trying to defend erroneous comments by goggling and cherry picking things others have said, without knowing whether the writing are correct, or knowing what their source is, or without knowing how to interpret the writings.

The more you try, the worse you make it.

I do this stuff for a living - I own a pressure gun, and I have run thousands of rounds through pressure guns.

And other than being an internet "expert" in Google, your ballistic background is ... ???

... when you know what you are talking about, we can talk - right now, you don't even have the proper basic language and grammar to have the discussion.


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lol.gif
 
I tried using reduced loads in the late 70's with Kopak that was stuffed in the case on top of the powder, and the result was that it spiked the heck out of pressure.

Blue Dot loads in a 223 with 40g Bullets is a match made in Heaven.
 
I must admit, I stopped reading this whole thing a while back cuz I simply don't care, but Cat's last post is crackin' me up
lol.gif


I know exactly how you feel, Cat. Posers ain't hard to identify for the trained eye.......
 
Originally Posted By: ackleymanI tried using reduced loads in the late 70's with Kopak that was stuffed in the case on top of the powder, and the result was that it spiked the heck out of pressure.

As in worse than NOT filling the case?
 
For anyone who cares, this used to be THE definitive study of chamber pressure at one time. Of course, nearly 50 years later, some have come to profess that it has it's "faults". I haven't read it in years, but here it is:


http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/3866/bac6873.0001.001.pdf;jsessionid=0DBD0372016023B9470C5989E6913B6F?sequence=5
 
Okay I'm done. Tried 4 different links.
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Anyway, it is "Absolute Chamber Pressure in Centerfire Rifles" by Lenard Brownell (while at the University of Michigan).........
 
Originally Posted By: SShooterZOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmintThen why do they make different primers? Some burn hoter than others. If a type of powder burns at the same rate then a magnum primer would not build higher pressures than non magnum primers.

Have you ever tried to light a piece of wood with a match vs. a blow torch? The torch lights it hella lot quicker without the characteristic of the wood changing 1 iota. Same concept with primers, thus Magnum primers are use to ignite "harder to ignite" powders. Doesn't change the characteristic of the powder's burn rate at all.

Using your example, then powder WILL ignite faster with more air in it. Take a large piece of wood and try and ignite that. Why do you think kindling is always fine in size compared to logs ? Its to allow air to circulate (and heat) and hence burn faster. If the powder is only ignited at the bottom, it will burn progressively through the stack of powder. Now lay that down with only half or less powder, and that primer will ignite ALL granules at the same time, and hence greater pressures and a faster burn rate.
 
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I don't "FILL" the case to pressure the powder, I just use a very light "almost cotton wool" to GENTLY hold the powder at the base of the case, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Originally Posted By: Raymond BlakerOriginally Posted By: SShooterZOriginally Posted By: predyotevarmintThen why do they make different primers? Some burn hoter than others. If a type of powder burns at the same rate then a magnum primer would not build higher pressures than non magnum primers.

Have you ever tried to light a piece of wood with a match vs. a blow torch? The torch lights it hella lot quicker without the characteristic of the wood changing 1 iota. Same concept with primers, thus Magnum primers are use to ignite "harder to ignite" powders. Doesn't change the characteristic of the powder's burn rate at all.

Using your example, then powder WILL ignite faster with more air in it. Take a large piece of wood and try and ignite that. Why do you think kindling is always fine in size compared to logs ? Its to allow air to circulate (and heat) and hence burn faster. If the powder is only ignited at the bottom, it will burn progressively through the stack of powder. Now lay that down with only half or less powder, and that primer will ignite ALL granules at the same time, and hence greater pressures and a faster burn rate.

This is nonsense - powder is not wood - it does not burn - it deflgerates so it does not need air to "burn" - it need heat and pressure, and the primer ignites the whole load of powder at once.

If your description was accurate, then we would have to orient the cartridge so he powder would be in the same place each time, or we would get extreme velocity changes, and no one would be able to hit anything at long range.

Why do you guys make this stuff up - it is mind boggling.


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