Savage Model 12FV vs. Remington VLS

I agree... I wouldn't pay that much just for looks in a gun but it ain't just for looks... The Remingtons are now shooting as well as the Savages again and they have a hell of a lot better resale value.

Besides... I'm not sure where you people are finding Savages for $200-300 less than Remingtons.

The differences I see are more like a hundred or less.

$bob$
 
Idhunter there is a reason that houses, cars and other things have different prices. If you are paying almost half of the purchase price more for the same size and same level of construction all becuase it has a prettier color or finish then please move to Western Md I have a couple of houses for sale. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

If your looking at just the basic black guns you are probably right the price difference is only about 125-150. But why would I want to pay more for a gun that looks just like my Savage. I am looking at my basic black Savage .204 and my basic black Remington 7mm mag and I'm not seeing any difference. That 125-150 could go to my scope. I can now shoot groups in my .204 and .17hmr that are 1/2" best my Rem 7 mag can do is1 1/4".
 
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I'm a Realtor and 25 years of experience (15 years as an appraiser) has taught me that looks are extremely important in real estate.

Looks (like size) matters. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Anyone that thinks that it doesn't is usually ugly or small... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Would you rather date a pretty girl or an ugly one?

Would you rather have a standard F-150 or an Eddie Bauer model. What's the difference? Looks... And they charge and GET a hell of a lot more for them.

Would you rather buy a 60" Plasma TV or a 9" black and white? All you gotta do is sit closer to the 9" right?

This is about the most ridiculous conversation that I've ever had. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Anybody that argues with the above logic simply can't afford, or is too cheap to buy nice things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

I've never seen a guy with a Corvette say "I don't care what it looks like... It's just transportation" Only guys with ugly beaters say that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

Self evident fact. Good looks matter, and people will pay a hell of a lot more for it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

And before someone else tries to say they won't pay a LOT more just for looks PLEASE note that I've already covered that and have included poor resale value, rough bores etc.

I regret that it appears that I've stepped on some toes here. If you don't think your rifle is ugly then what I'm saying shouldn't matter or even apply to you.... Right?

So what's the problem?

$bob$
 
I own a the same Remington your dad is looking at and
happen to think it is one of the finest rifles I'll
even owned. At the same time I feel the need to mention
it's weight. Once you put a scope, bipod and sling on
one it will top out near 12lbs. It is not the gun for
being light on your feet. just an fyi.
Once set up and the calling starts I wouldn't own any
other rifle.
 
Man , I love this site. No one is saying anything bad about any rifle. Just like anything out there , example: cars, motorcycles or your lawn mower. If it works for ya use it. You want a pretty rifle buy it. You want a pretty car buy it. No toes stepped on here. In fact come on out to shoot some dogs and I'll buy the Wyoming beer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
I am with IDHunter, for a few reasons. But first I don't own a pretty gun, I guess my Kimber might be close. However I do see many of my guns as investments.
I have about 40 rifles right now, 35 shotguns and loads of 22's, in my personal collection.
The claim that "the majority" of any rifles doing anything from any manufaturer is a crock. Evey company makes "phenomes and lemons".
MY tikkas are ugly but shoot VERY well, and I can sell them quickly for a good price. My Remingtons are good shooters, dont sell as quick as Tikkas(right now) but Get more money.
Winchesters, slower to sell, good prices.
I have gotten rid of all Brownings and Weatherbys, they just tee me off, dont shoot very well, the Browning has the worst magazine ever designed, VERY slow to sell, prices all over the board. Weatherbys are a nightmare to sell and shoot. I have only owned one Vanguard, it was better than the Mark 5, I almost consider it different brand.

Here in the Northwest I cant get rid of Savages, aside from them being ugly, I dont think most buyers care that much about accuracy!!
Most seem to assume that the rifle can shoot better then they can, might be right. You can tell them that the "short bolt lift and magazine" (in some brands)will lower the action cycle time by about .oooooooooo1 nano seconds and they will buy it tho!!
This experience is based on about 3000 rifle sales in the last 6 years. Sport Shack in Oly was presented a free Tikka Tactical last year for selling more new Tikkas in the NW than anyone else.
So get either one you like, I doubt you'll find any real difference in field use, of either, if you ever want to sell or trade, go to the Remington.
Carl
 
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The doggin was good, never will be as good as you want it. Took five trips up (1.5 hrs. from the house) there this year. The last one , I may have found the proverbial honey hole. Not to many beers are had during the day, not till after the guns are cleaned and put away. The red barrels have to cool down during the night. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Where I live, you have to buy a Savage.....because supposedly "everyone wants one". Yeah...right...

But geting rid of a Savage is another matter....you practicaly have to donate them to charity to get one to move.

You'd think if they are realy "all that", that the used Savage market would be booming. But there seems to be very little interest the second time around, and I'm starting to see quite a few on the used gun racks....collecting dust. And they're dirt cheap, too, and still not moving in the used market.

I wonder what that means....?

-BCB
 
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I wonder what that means....?

-BCB



Well to me it means that I can pick up two of the for the price of one new Remington. I'm not interested in selling them. I can add a new custom barrel install it myself and still will be less than a new Rem and probably in all likelyhood shoot much better. I now have two of them and shortly they will both be switch barrel guns. One a .223/204 and the other a TAC 20/Vartag. LOVE that barrel nut!
 
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I'm not interested in selling them.



LOL!! And with the poor re-sale value and my experience with one Savage, I'm not interested in buying another one.

The only one I did buy based on all the hype had to be one of the worst rifles I have ever owned. It copper fouled terribly, the magazine would not feed reliably because of the gap/mismatch with the feed ramp, and the plastic stock was like a wet dishrag in the movement it had in it. And when I traded it off, I get pennies on the dollar...even though it was cheap to start with. It was chambered in 223 Remington.

Also, my comments were not intended to compare a Savage to a Remington in any form. And I've never been one who wants to re-barrel a rifle for today's chore and do it all again tomorrow, so the Savage "easy open" feature doesn't even catch my interest. That's why they build bigger gun safes....to keep all the options you might want that don't have to be swapped out with different parts as needed.

I once owned a Mossberg rifle (only one, also) back in the 1970's that was better quality than my one venture into the Savage world. But that's just been my experience...YMMV...

-BCB
 
Beagler,
I'm researching Savage .223 models and came across your post of the picture of your gun. All the 12FV descriptions, that I've found, have synthetic stocks. Can you tell me how you got the 12FV in the wood laminated stock? Beautiful rifle!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Sorry Remington fans. Pretty is as pretty does, and your Remington cannot come close to this without a helluva lot of help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ...

22-250IMR4064.jpg


Nosler125BT.jpg


100_0233.jpg


CoalHauler.jpg


fly.jpg


Nosler180OCW.jpg


22-250.jpg


I've owned some nice Remingtons. They're a good rifle for a project gun. But if you don't want to do a lot of work to the gun, the Savage is the true rifleman's choice.

Dan
 
I have both a VLS and a 12FV both in .223.

I am happy with both rifles, I have harvested 33 groundhogs this year with my Savage .223. The Savage shoots much tighter groups than my VLS. The VLS as others have said is a better looking rifle however, I prefer the Savage Action to the remington one hands down. The Savage action is much smoother in my opinion. The other reason I like the savages besides the accuracy is the ability to swap barrels easily.

The only downside to savage's is the stock. The stock is crap, if you can pay extra for the better stocked models.

The Remington is a great gun also...but my savage just shoots better groups.
 
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Can you tell me how you got the 12FV in the wood laminated stock? Beautiful rifle!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif


Purchased an aftermarket stock from Boyd's. I understand they are selling a composite thumbhole stock with a laminate interior now as well (or something like that).
 
I just wish everyone would quit beating around the bush and soft-soaking this topic and say what's really on their minds./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
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I just wish everyone would quit beating around the bush and soft-soaking this topic and say what's really on their minds./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
I'm not going to say that Savage is better than Remington or vice-versa. This is more of a "less filling, tastes great" type of argument where a lot of brand loyalty and personal opinions with regard to cosmetic design rule the day.

With that being said, one thing I do NOT understand is everybody saying that Savage rifles carry a poor resale value. I challenge ANYBODY here to go to 2 websites:
ar15.com
savageshooters.net (currently down, should be back up soon)

Savage rifles are very well regarded by a lot of contributers of those sites. It is very common to see Savage rifles in their "classified" sections for sale at 75% or better of retail. Most importantly, they SELL! I know because I've sold two Savage rifles (listed both on both sites and the respective buyers came from each site) using those sites and both moved in less than 72 hrs.

Maybe I just got lucky? Personally, I like the looks of Remington better than Savage. However, I've never owned or seen a factory Remmy that could outshoot a factory Savage. I'm currently doing a custom build using a Stevens 200 action (.260 Rem., Lothar Walther barrel, SSS trigger & recoil lug, Stockade Varmint/Tactical stock, IOR 35mm 6x24 50mm scope) for 600yd shooting. Minus the scope this setup will cost me less than $1,000 and I'd be willing to bet that it will shoot AT LEAST as good as this exact setup with a Remmy 700 action (assuming the shooter does their part. It should be a shooter and somebody will place value in the rifle (if I decide to sell) after they see pics of the groups it'll print. That alone will boost resale value.

In the end, I'm looking for performance, not looks, and the Savage products are a heck of a value in this regard...
 
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this setup will cost me less than $1,000



LOL, Saving all that money by going with Savege than you buy a over valued scope.
 
If anyone has any of those "butt ugly" Savage rifles that they cannot sell, let me know before you "donate them to charity" Ill gladly take them off your hands! My 16FCSS 22-250 shoots 1" @ 100 with WWB ammo, my 10FP .223 shoots about 1/2 inch with Fed American Eagle, my .17 HMR will shoot dimes @ 100 and the .204 I traded off shot small groups at 100 with factory Hornaday ammo. Havent had a lemon yet! I love Savage rifles!
 
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