Search & Seizure Without Warrant

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rockinbbar

rockinbbar

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I feel that some light needs to be shed on how it is Game Wardens can search without warrant.

Terry, I know you locked the other thread, and why you locked it. If you wish to remove this one, that's fine with me, but I think that some facts need to be brought to light concerning the basics of search and seizure without warrant.
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There ARE circumstances that the statement about Game Wardens having more search & seizure power than regular law enforcement officers does stand up.
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In most of the Western states, a warden can completely search your vehicle for evidence that he believes are "Fruits of the Crime". They can also enter private property if they believe that a crime has occured, or is about to occur. There was a game warden shot and killed doing that very thing not too long ago.

A warden out here can also search your residence without warrant if they believe that you are holding "Fruits of the Crime". That search may be confined to areas that you could possibly hide parts of game animals that they believe would be potential evidence that a crime was committed.

Here in NM, the NM Dept. of Game & Fish hold roadblocks on the Sunday after a big game season is ended on highways that lead out of popular hunting areas. Every car is stopped. Every car is searched. Again, this is without warrant, and will not make an iota of difference if you object....But, again, the search is limited to areas that you could store "Fruits of the Crime". If something illegal that does not relate to game violations is found, you still pay the fiddler and go to jail. For Example: If wardens are searching your ice chest and find a pound of pot...Off to jail you go.
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An officer has the power to search the immediate area and person as well for potential weapons, which may include areas of the home or vehicle that you have access to. Again, if they find anything in those areas that you shouldn't have, then you will face the music just the same as if they had a warrant.

Let me define "Fruits of the Crime".

Legally, an officer can search, (against your will), and without warrant, your vehicle or home or whatever if he believes (probable cause) that an offense has occured, and that items relating to that offense may indeed be hidden or disposed of if he lets the vehicle go on it's way before he gets a warrant. Or, in cases of searching you residence, he believes that items relating to a crime may be disposed of while he leaves to get a warrant.

I assure everyone here that I'm NOT taking any sides in this matter, but I do feel that it's important to get the facts out there about what circumstances search and seizure without warrant can apply. And, under those circumstances, game wardens have been afforded the most leeway and that leeway has been upheld in courts of law.

Barry
 
I would ask that any relation to previous threads be left out of this thread.

This thread was created so that people that have read other places and may still have questions about these legalities be properly informed, and discuss this seperate subject, as well as leave the emotions, and tempers OUT of this thread for obvious reasons.

Thank you.

Barry
 
In ny i know DEC officers can search without warrant if they feel something illegal has occured, say you just got back from fishing and the have reason to believe the fish you caught are illeagal(undersized, out of season) they can search then without warrant same for illegal taking of game animals and such
 
Originally Posted By: WigenheadThanks Barry, Ive always said that if you live right and do right, what ya got to wory about?

The problem with that line of thinking is that there are many laws that a person can break without even knowing it. What if your wife accidentally left a bottle of prescription pills in your vehicle? If the officers want to get you for something, they can usually find a way.

That being said, I am a law-abiding citizen and support law enforcement.
 
I found a little reading that was interesting.

Search with or without warrantThe laws in many U.S. states allow game wardens to conduct certain types of searches with or without search warrants. The law in Louisiana for instance states in part "...any commissioned wildlife agent may visit, inspect, and examine, with or without [a] search warrant, records, any cold storage plant, warehouse, boat, store, car, conveyance, automobile or other vehicle, airplane or other aircraft, basket or other receptacle, or any place of deposit for wild birds, wild quadrupeds, fish or other aquatic life or any parts thereof whenever there is probable cause to believe that a violation has occurred. Commissioned wildlife agents are authorized to visit or inspect at frequent intervals without the need of search warrants, records, cold storage plants, bait stands, warehouses, public restaurants, public and private markets, stores, and places where wild birds, game quadrupeds, fish, or other aquatic life or any parts therof may be kept and offered for sale, for the purpose of ascertaining whether any laws or regulations under the jurisdiction of the department have been violated...."[3] The laws in other states may grant more or less search and seizure authority. These exceptions granted to game wardens are still considered to fall within the constitutional limits of search and seizure as outlined in the U.S. Constitution.[citation needed]

 
Any chance you have a link handy to the actual legal code that allows the GW's to do that? I still have a hard time wrapping my head around that fact. Not saying you are wrong. Going by what I've seen on tv (I know not a reliable source) on shows like Alaska State Troopers, the officer suspects you of say smoking refer he can remove you from vehicle and ask consent to search, he can obviously look into the "open" area of the car but cannot open glove box, trunk, etc. Even needs separate permission to search personal bags since they are not part of the car. If you refuse, he can bring a dog in and have the dog sniff the outside of vehicle. If the dog indicates, he arrests you for suspicion of drug use/possesion/whatever and impound the car, but still has to get a court order to physically search the car for the evidence. I still fail to see how this is any different than if he pulled you over for suspected poaching.
 
Seen on wardens last night that the montana wardens can't make arrests for anything thats got do with drugs. Figured they would be able to.

As for the feel like something illeagal has occured I got a story.

My friends wife was over at her in-laws visiting. At the time she had a baby and was breast feeding. Well she just got done feeding her child and was putting a pad in her bra at the same time a police officer was driving by. The cop seen her shove something in her bra through the window as he drove by. He then showed up with 5 other officers and when they answered the door the pushed their way in and accused her of hiding drugs in her bra. She told them what she just did and they pulled tasers on her and made her strip infront of her in-laws or get tased. So she had to strip infront of the in-laws. When they found nothing there was no sorry, just a cop saying I know you had something. My friend went the next day to a lawyer and was told there was not much he could do since the officer thought he seen illeagal activity.

I know someone will call BS but this is an honest to god story that really happened. Also these are strait arrow by the book folk this happened to.
 
Here in WA if you look like a hunter they can pull you over.
Simply if you are driving a pickup is enough reason because hunters regularly use that type of vehicle.
Personally I take issue with this.
 
Quote:He then showed up with 5 other officers and when they answered the door the pushed their way in and accused her of hiding drugs in her bra. She told them what she just did and they pulled tasers on her and made her strip infront of her in-laws or get tased. So she had to strip infront of the in-laws.

He had time to round up 5 cops to help, but couldn't find one female cop? His eyes are so keen that he can be driving by and see into a houses window and know exactly what a women is putting in her bra, other than a body part? I suppose he could tell exactly what you might be putting in your pocket too.

I'd get a different lawyer.
 
Originally Posted By: tripod3Here in WA if you look like a hunter they can pull you over.
Simply if you are driving a pickup is enough reason because hunters regularly use that type of vehicle.
Personally I take issue with this.

I wonder if they can pull you over because you look like a criminal. You know, like the "Hamburgler" from McDonalds?
 
Originally Posted By: DiogeeQuote:He then showed up with 5 other officers and when they answered the door the pushed their way in and accused her of hiding drugs in her bra. She told them what she just did and they pulled tasers on her and made her strip infront of her in-laws or get tased. So she had to strip infront of the in-laws.

He had time to round up 5 cops to help, but couldn't find one female cop? His eyes are so keen that he can be driving by and see into a houses window and know exactly what a women is putting in her bra, other than a body part? I suppose he could tell exactly what you might be putting in your pocket too.

I'd get a different lawyer.

Town of 5000 so it don't take long to for them to show up. I just want to know why they are driving around looking in windows. Oh ya we had no female officers at the time.
 
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I've always been told that "your eyes can not trespass", obviously your feet can though. I don't blame a cop for looking into a house while driving down a public street, if he/she can do it safely. Might even catch a burglar, but the above story appears too extreme for me to justify.
 
Barry is right but here is the catch. In Texas the only real tangible difference between a Game Warden and any other Peace Officer is that a Game Warden can legally enter onto Private Property to check for Game Violations. This does not include Houses.

This is also a right of some Code Enforcement Officers of the City.

Officers can also Search at any time for any reason any Premises that has a License to sell Alcohol.
 
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wonder if customs agents have separate laws. Seems like they just pick you out of the line and search your car and luggage etc for no apparent reason.
 
Probable Cause: If your looking for fish you can't open the glove box, if your looking for big game you can't open a six-pack cooler. Contraband found in these cases such as; gun or pot would necessarily be thrown out. Much case law concerning this. Size matters.
Federal law prohibits profilling due to race, color, culture etc..
Gut feeling is not probable cause. Use of senses (sight, smell, hear) is grounds for further search of individual, car, property, but not a house (dwelling). If you hear a shot fired in a house or see criminal acts through a window there may be cause to enter & investigate further as long as you can justify why you were there.
This is all about layers of common sense and what is prudent to the average person.
 
That doesn't just apply to game wardens any law enforcement officer can conduct searches of vehicles and homes without a warrant if certain exceptions exist. A warrant is preferred but there are instances when obtaining a warrant would result in the lost of evidence so goes the execption. And yes customs does go by seperate rules. They need no probable cause to stop you crossing the border.
 
US Customs & Border Patrol already have you pegged with what you are doing and what you have inside you vehicle when you stop at the inspection point.

People entering the US are subject to a search of themselves and their belongings upon entry.

Some of the sophisticated NEW tools the Customs & Border Patrol have are pretty "invasive"...

Have you noticed the "cameras" and trailer set up at the checkpoints? They can detect nitrates, radiation, and other things. These are on BOTH sides of the highway. If you just had an X-Ray, you have to explain that to them. Your Dr. should have given you a "hall pass" to get past them....
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They WILL call and talk to your Dr. before they let you go. You'd better hope he's not playing golf without his cell phone, or you could be there awhile....

How many of you have seen the big, white F-450 trucks at a Border Patrol checkpoint lately? It has a huge "Box bed" on it?

Wanna guess what THAT is?
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It is an X-Ray lab that can drive around your vehicle, or even an 18 wheeler and take an "x-ray" of the entire contents of the vehicle, including contraband & humans and or animals that may be hidden in your vehicle. The probable cause resulting from the new high tech devices are good enough to search anything they deem needs searching. They "see" the guns in your vehicle too. How many, what kind, and how loaded up on ammo you are.

With Big Brother providing technology like that, how long will it be before a big white truck drives down your street and sniffs out your gunpowder for reloading, or detects how many guns you keep in your home, and how much ammo you have for each gun? What will they use the information for? All perfectly legal. They are indeed "searching" without warrant in those cases, aren't they?

What happens when private industry gets the technology? It's already here in some cases with some companies....They have digital "sniffers" that you have to walk through to gain entry to where you work....The sniffers, can, and will detect whether you have been shooting within the past several hours, or have been reloading, or handling reloading components. Setting THAT alarm off, you WILL be subjected to a WAY more thourough search and have to answer questions about why you set off their sniffer. This proceedure can take HOURS. You probably won't be paid for it. After you set the sniffer off a couple of times and spend 2-3 hours being searched and questioned, you will probably be told that due to the costly proceedure that YOU keep making them put you through, that if it happens once more, you will be fired, because you are not worth the trouble to keep as an employee....(The preceeding has indeed already happened, BTW)

Interesting points made here. Mostly it involves PROBABLE CAUSE... With enough probable cause, they can do pretty much what they want, when they want.
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