shotgun for yotes

I have a 28" Wad Loc hastings barrel I should pattern, 3" on an 1100.

There are few guys here shooting the Hastings Wad Loc barrel that are 34" busting crows at long range. These Wad Loc barrels have 4 grooves in them to keep the wad from rotating as the wad goes down the barrel. This non rotating wad is supposed to stop shot from deforming...I have no idea...just read the hype...not drank the kool aid. The one that I have I got in a pawn shop on a 3" 1100 for $300 five or six years ago. The Wad Loc barrels never really caught on, probably due to price. Everyone of those 34" barrels are grabbed up in a hurry by crow shooters since the muzzle pressure is less and the shell is "quite", proclaimed by those that have drank the Kool Aid. I hunted with some professional crow hunters and they did not like my "LOUD" shells, as theirs was 1 1/16 oz of shot at 1140 fps, #6's. Mine were 1 1/2 oz of copper plated, buffered #5's at 1300 fps shot out of my Beretta 391.

Long time ago when lead was legal on geese, I and my partner would regularly tag honkers at 100 yards with 1 5/8 oz of buffered super hard T shot with a MV of 1350.... custom turkey chokes, forcing cones lengthened, and back bored.

At that time, there was a Retired NASA engineer in Florida that was "tuning" shotgun barrels by the name of Jack Sehase. When the shotgun barrels are tuned, the pellets deform much less and core density of the pattern is MUCH tighter. Jack charged about $1000 to tune a barrel. This "tuning" of shotgun barrels I believe is a lost art as Jack died of cancer and would not sell me the rights to his secret. He took those secrets to the grave with him.

I don't know if Hastings Wad loc barrels are any good or not, they are rare and run around $250 if you can find one for sale. I believe that Hastings was having a company in Italy make the barrels for them, but that was just a rumor.
 
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Patterns don't do diddly for penetration.

T shot at 1,400 fps has pizz poor penetration at 80 yards. Inadequate for coyote, in my opinion. Tested it myself. A hundred yards...

- DAA
 
And a "high velocity" load, indicates a low pellet count. Call it 1-1/2 oz, 51 pellets of lead T.

I'd pay a hundred dollars to anyone that could put 15 of those 51 pellets in a 10" circle at 100 yards three times out of ten. From a bench. Using a lead sled and a scope if they want. [beeep], I'd pay that at 80 yards, for that load.

- DAA
 
Originally Posted By: ackleyman These Wad Loc barrels have 4 grooves in them to keep the wad from rotating as the wad goes down the barrel. This non rotating wad is supposed to stop shot from deforming...

a serious question.

what would cause the wad to rotate or spin in a smooth bore shotgun barrel?

a wad loc barrel seems like a solution for a non existent problem. i wont be trying to find one.

i know daa wants one though. then he could kill coyotes at a hundred yards. maybe more.
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Originally Posted By: bkhcj8I have a benelli nova that I want to start using while coyote hunting. I need advice on what choke and shells to use for best results. The gun will hold up to 3 1/2 shells, and it has a 28 in barrell. Thanks

For sure check out the Pattern thread that was linked before...it's awesome.

As for choke, I have found that the best patterns with my Benelli M2 21" come with a Kick's GT 0.670. My handloads of #1 Buckshot put 15 of 18 pellets inside 8" at 35 yards. Remington 41 pellet #4 buck is equally impressive. You may need to use a 3-1/2" shell to get the best pattern. Mine prefers 3" over 2-3/4" and I don't know if chamber length has something to do with it.

Depending on shot size, you might want to go even tighter. I have tried more open chokes in mine with the #1 and #4, but the patterns were not as good. You will have to see what your gun likes. I have several tighter chokes from Carlson's if you want to give them a try.
 
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Originally Posted By: DAAPatterns don't do diddly for penetration.

T shot at 1,400 fps has pizz poor penetration at 80 yards. Inadequate for coyote, in my opinion. Tested it myself. A hundred yards...

- DAA

+1
 
Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: ackleyman These Wad Loc barrels have 4 grooves in them to keep the wad from rotating as the wad goes down the barrel. This non rotating wad is supposed to stop shot from deforming...

a serious question.

what would cause the wad to rotate or spin in a smooth bore shotgun barrel?

Barrel vibration, and shot is moving within the wad column.

a wad loc barrel seems like a solution for a non existent problem. i wont be trying to find one.

i know daa wants one though. then he could kill coyotes at a hundred yards. maybe more.
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DAA - I'll take that $100 please! Send me a PM for my address. Either a Ben Franklin or a postal money order if you please...


Let me back up here a little bit for the rest of you guys. I retired as a Law Enforcement Officer, after 30 years of local, state and Federal service. One thing that I NEVER do, is say something that I cannot prove. Been in court literally thousands of times, in front of Judges from all over the country, putting people in prison and making sure the bad guys stay there. All judges will tell you that "if you cannot tell the truth, then keep your mouth closed"...

Now then, somebody said that the Hastings Wadlock barrels had "4" grooves in them, but mine both my 34" and 26" barrel has 6...

Before I post my $100 winning lottery tickets, here is a little bit more information...

When I started looking for a long range shotgun for coyotes, I went through 15 different barrels before I found one that really looked promising...

I went through 96 POUNDS of lead T shot, from the time I started load development until I finally found my load...

I went through 62 different choke tubes, until I found one that I was satisfied with...

I went through countless wads, until I found one I could customize with only 2 petals, and not the customary 4 petal design...

My load has 48 lead T pellets in it, and it is buffered. Pellets are "stacked" and because of their size, they are not just dumped into a load...

I tried 3" loads with negative results...

Federal Gold Medal hulls - 2 3/4" was the start of a beautiful friendship! I went through every available hull on the market, but the Federal Gold Medal was the clear winner...

Loads without buffer were VERY patchy and for some reason or another, they were egg shaped! That made no sense...

Gun - Remington 870...

Barrel - Hasting Wadlock 34" / 2" cut and mirror polished forcing cone...

Choke tube - Hastings extended...

Overall length of gun is 55 1/4"...


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This is my pattern board set up, as I pattern EVERY load that I shoot!

My pattern aiming point at 100 yards is at the top of the full size sheet of typing paper. When shooting a coyote that far, I aim just over the top of his back. Everything 75 yards and closer, I center out the front shoulder...

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These 3 patterns were shot today and at a measured 100 yards! I was sitting on the ground and using an X stick under the forend for support...

The last pattern shown is 5 shots at that one target - at 100 yards! There are 219 pellets in a 22"X28" area on that pattern paper. Not every pellet hole is shown, as I just centered the pattern in the frame of my camera...


100 Yards - 12 ga. shotgun!

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100 yards - 12 ga. shotgun!

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100 yards - 12 ga. shotgun - 5 shots!

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So before you guys call anyone a liar, or tell them they are full of poop, just remember that there will ALWAYS be someone out there that is just a little bit better than you are!

Me? I'm no better than the next guy. I just try to perfect in everything that I do, especially when I know or believe that it is possible!

One last thing. It took me over 3 years to develop these loads, with a LOT of rounds fired in the process...
 
I may have missed it, how big is the white paper? I asked about a 10" circle at point of aim because of the size of a coyotes vital area. So, one shot at a time, how many pellets can you consistently put in a 10" area at point of aim? For clarity and to return to my original question.

Next question, a point was made about penetration of the lead pellet at that range. What sort of penetration are you getting on 100 yard coyotes?
 
I'll pay up for the patterns. If you can do it 3 out of 10, in a 10" circle. No problem.

But 100 yard coyotes in the field with lead T, I'm just not buying it. No way.

- DAA
 
I smell a crow cooking! Anybody care for a plate full! Heee Heee!!!

Those are 2 x 4's the target frame is made of for reference!

That is the darndest shotgun shooting I have ever seen!

1 Assassin, have you ever shot crows with that shotgun?
 
Originally Posted By: GCI may have missed it, how big is the white paper? I asked about a 10" circle at point of aim because of the size of a coyotes vital area. So, one shot at a time, how many pellets can you consistently put in a 10" area at point of aim? For clarity and to return to my original question.

Next question, a point was made about penetration of the lead pellet at that range. What sort of penetration are you getting on 100 yard coyotes?

That piece of white paper is an 8X10 sheet of copy paper...

There are over 100 pellets in that sheet of paper, from 5 shots, one after the other, with careful aim between shots...

A 10" pie plate! Over 10 pellets every time at 100 yards, as long as I put the bead where it belongs. My reason for using the copy paper was because I did not have any white paper plates and at the distance I was shooting, I could see the copy paper better anyways...

My furthest shot on a coyote was at a laser ranged 107 yards. Most of the pellets that hit the ribs were a complete pass through. The pellets that hit the front shoulder and hind quarter did not pass all the way through...
 
I was slightly annoyed when I saw that a 9 year old post had been brought back from the dead yesterday but it has taken an entertaining turn for the better. I’m not so sure that 1assassin couldnt put 10 pellets into that c note you all owe him at 100 yards!
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Now if you would buy some heavyweight 15g/cc shot to play with you could stretch it out to 125 or 150. Might be the only guy on earth who needs a bdc reticle for shotgunning coyotes.
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Originally Posted By: triumph001Now if you would buy some heavyweight 15g/cc shot to play with you could stretch it out to 125 or 150. Might be the only guy on earth who needs a bdc reticle for shotgunning coyotes.
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heck with 15g/cc shot. the latest and greatest shot is tss. around 18g/cc. kill coyotes cold stone dead out to 175-225 yards easy. i cluster killed 5 on the same stand with one shell at a lazered 190 yards last winter. then i woke up.
 
Originally Posted By: ackleyman

That is the darndest shotgun shooting I have ever seen!

1 Assassin, have you ever shot crows with that shotgun?


Yes, I shoot crows every chance I get with that shotgun...

I'm nowhere in the same ball park as George Digweed, whom I have personally seen bust crows 80 to 100 yards on a very consistent basis, but I can do pretty darn good out to 75 yards...

I shoot a fast 1 1/8 oz. load of magnum #2 lead, which is exactly 100 pellets...
 
Good to see more shotgun guru’s here I know I appreciate learning from others hard work. Maybe 1ASSASSIN could load up $100 of that heavier than lead shot DAA uses. Anyhow you guys do interesting work and thanks for sharing.
 
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