Since the thread that had a good ethics discussion going was locked...

I think Barry has met everyone here half way which is more than I see in many other threads by other people. I personally have learned quite a bit from reading his threads in the past and no, I have never met him. Enough already. Points well taken. Can we get over this and move on?
 
IMO its a discussion, are we not aloud to discuss ethics?

I'll say it again, no one is trying to win anything. Its just a a discussion. I dont think its hurting anything.

And yes Barry was a class act. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
I respect the fact that Rockinbar made good on his post by removing the picture. There are many others that wouldn't have done so, especially after having received the amount of moral support that Rockinbar had.

Anyway, Curt has asked us to keep this thread focused on hunter ethics, and we should honor his request.
 
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I respect the fact that Rockinbar made good on his post by removing the picture. There are many others that wouldn't have done so, especially after having received the amount of moral support that Rockinbar had.

Anyway, Curt has asked us to keep this thread focused on hunter ethics, and we should honor his request.



Agreed,

If the Mods want the thread shut down, I have no problem with it. By all means shut it down, But as long as it is still up and running I see no reason we cant discuss
 
Thanks guys.

I was just making the statement that the discussion is great & valued, but I can not do anything more personally, so lets not make it 'personal'....that serves no purpose to further our common goals. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Once again I find myself having to explain myself. Apparently I have very bad communication skills as well as other problems.
I am very new to this site and thought that I had found a place of like thinking individuals who were willing to share our knowledge and experiences with new and young hunters to help them keep our traditions and sport going in the future. Apparently Barry "swatted a hornets nest" and created a dividing line between members. From there the discussion rapidly degenerated into name calling and intolerance for other peoples veiws,which is why I quit the forum. That and the fact that I personnaly made a couple of statements that in this mornings light don't seem like the type of thinking a newbie(i.e.new/young hunter) ought to be exposed to. Having said all that I would like to clarify two things so there is no misunderstanding and if you guys want to ban me from this site go ahead and do so.
1) I may not agree with what you have to say(your opinion), but I will if necessary defend to the death your right to say it!
2)This country was founded by a bunch of guys who broke laws they did not agree with because they felt that they had certain rights that nobody had the right to take away. I beleive that a person has the right to use deadly force to defend himself or his/her property. I do not beleive that any animal has more rights than I do. The ARA's and other liberals think I am wrong. That is their right.They feel that I am a "dinasoar" and that my beleifs need to get with the times. Not gonna happen! The passage of laws cannot make me change my thinking. I used to feel that even if I disagreed with a law, I should never-the-less adhere to it. After all it's the law. I don't feel that way any more. How many of you have said "There ain't no way they're gonna take my guns!!" When I read those statements I always wonder if the person making the statement is really willing to get in a gunfight with a bunch of guys who are trained to take him out! So come on let's have it --all you guys who feel they have the right to judge me have at it!
 
Did I miss a few months somewhere? Is it July already? As far as I can tell there's still some calling left to be done before things degenerate to this.

Lets go hunting!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
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IMO its a discussion, are we not aloud to discuss ethics?

I'll say it again, no one is trying to win anything. Its just a a discussion. I dont think its hurting anything.

And yes Barry was a class act. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



The above comment was the whole point of starting this thread. I have been on here a few months now, and ethics is the one thing I don't see discussed very often. Now admitedly I haven't visited every nook and cranny of this forum. So it may be somewhere I havn't been yet.

So when the other thread was shut down, I thought some may want to continue the discussion.

Just so we're clear I didn't start it to promote name calling, or berate Barry. I started it to express my opinion on the matter(like anyone cares), and explain how I view it. So others could chime in, and agree, or disagree. For some reason this subject is a sensitive one for me, and I have never been able to explain it.

I truly love hunting, and everything involved with it. I never want to see that go away.

I think good things can come from a discussion on ethics. If anything, it gets people thinking that otherwise may not have.

With that said, and with the mods blessing, let the discussion continue.
 
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Once again I find myself having to explain myself. Apparently I have very bad communication skills as well as other problems.
I am very new to this site and thought that I had found a place of like thinking individuals who were willing to share our knowledge and experiences with new and young hunters to help them keep our traditions and sport going in the future. Apparently Barry "swatted a hornets nest" and created a dividing line between members. From there the discussion rapidly degenerated into name calling and intolerance for other peoples veiws,which is why I quit the forum. That and the fact that I personnaly made a couple of statements that in this mornings light don't seem like the type of thinking a newbie(i.e.new/young hunter) ought to be exposed to. Having said all that I would like to clarify two things so there is no misunderstanding and if you guys want to ban me from this site go ahead and do so.
1) I may not agree with what you have to say(your opinion), but I will if necessary defend to the death your right to say it!
2)This country was founded by a bunch of guys who broke laws they did not agree with because they felt that they had certain rights that nobody had the right to take away. I beleive that a person has the right to use deadly force to defend himself or his/her property. I do not beleive that any animal has more rights than I do. The ARA's and other liberals think I am wrong. That is their right.They feel that I am a "dinasoar" and that my beleifs need to get with the times. Not gonna happen! The passage of laws cannot make me change my thinking. I used to feel that even if I disagreed with a law, I should never-the-less adhere to it. After all it's the law. I don't feel that way any more. How many of you have said "There ain't no way they're gonna take my guns!!" When I read those statements I always wonder if the person making the statement is really willing to get in a gunfight with a bunch of guys who are trained to take him out! So come on let's have it --all you guys who feel they have the right to judge me have at it!



dedogs,

I don't know where you are going with this post. But let us clarify something....American police officers are not trained to "take people out." They are trained to shoot in defense of their own lives, or to defend the lives of others.

United States soldiers and marines are trained to "take people out."

There is a difference.
 
I hear ya that maybe we should let it die. But I can tell a few points were not understood as is evident in the quotes below, so I feel the need for further explanation. Sorry if it bothers you! LOL

rockingbbar said: "I don't relly see where decency comes into it....If you have not wounded & lost a coyote, then you haven't called & shot many of them."
(See there?...apparently needs more explanation!)

Nope, Quinton hasn't called and shot many coyotes! LOL
Of course most here have wounded and lost a few coyotes. The difference is, we don't post pictures of the wounded ones, especially while holding them by the scruff of the neck so that everyone might think we are cool. Just the dead ones. LOL

rockingbbar has a point in his "in the trap" comparison. However, the answer boils down to exactly what he wrote “Depends on YOUR presonal set of ethics.” The "well dawg gawn it, it's legal ain't it, so it's okay, ya dern tree hugger!" argument doesn't work. Sometimes, someone posts something that goes over the limits as what some can sit back and ignore. This one (posting it publicly) just happened to step over that moral line for some of us, is all. Pictures of trapped animals...well...for me...they don't! Pretty scientific huh?! LOL

Come on now nmleon. Been gone for a couple years and you come back with THAT waste of broadband??

So we don’t have to go find the thread, Nmleon said:

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For all you that feel posting the picture was somehow wrong, here's some points to ponder:

Do you use an e-caller? Is the guy that tortures those animals (often to death) in order to get real life distress sounds an unethical sadist? Are you a cowardly unethical sadist because you don't have the stones to record the sounds yourself?

Like a good steak? Ever been on a ranch at branding time? Do you think it's ethical to deliberately inflict 3rd degree burns on a helpless young animal, and the while it's terrified out of it's mind, castrate it, all without anaethezia? Is it ethical to promote that cruel behavior by buying and eating steak?

Ever eat veal? MY GOD!! you wouldn't believe the existance that poor animal is subjected to just to be wantonly slaughtered for it's meat.

Let's not even MENTION seal pupping or trapping, or fur farming, or modern poultry or hog factories.

Ever go Pdog shooting? Tell us (be honest now), when you wounded one at 3-4-500yds, did you get up from your bench and walk out there to put it out of it's misery or (if it fell where the shot was to difficult) did you just figure it was on it's way out and leave it lie? Did you happen to be getting your adventure on film at the time?

Think about it guys.



That’s about as useless as the coyotes’ enjoyment of eating sheep comparison. Then, to top if off, you lock the thread and get the last word with THAT??? LOL See the paragraph from above.
"Of course most here have wounded and lost a coyote [insert wounded pdogs, branding cattle, etc. here]. The difference is, we don't post pictures of the wounded ones, especially while holding them by the scruff of the neck so that everyone sees how cool we are.”
I think not the act, but publicly posting garbage was the point from most of us that thought the picture was “somehow wrong”.
Think about it nmleon.
 
Neither am I (the sharpest knife in the drawer). If you want to disagree with me that's your right,but you don't have to resort to name calling to do it.
If a wolf attacks me, my family, or my property I'm gonna KILL IT if I can. If I'm not mistaken the "law" says I can.
The reason I made the statement to the young man "shoot, shovel, and shut-up" was to spare him the agony of having to justify what he might do to defend his dogs from wolves. Some folks felt that I was advising the fella to break the law--I don't think I was. The last part was to state my position if certain things were to happen and question if others were willing to take the same position. Is that clear enough for you?
 
Just so were clear on why I posted the video of the bullfight.

What Barry did was no where near the level of a bullfight. But it did deny the animal a quick, humane death. This is the similarity that I wanted to draw.

When ARA's see this kind of thing, they just lump us right in with the bullfighters. And we all know thats just not the case.

I'll bet everyone on here that watched that video to the end, no matter what his opinion on this topic is, watched that video and felt sorry for that bull.

If some of you didn't watch it till the end, when the bull starts blowing blood, thats where it gets almost too much for me to watch. And I have a pretty strong stomach.
 
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Neither am I (the sharpest knife in the drawer). If you want to disagree with me that's your right,but you don't have to resort to name calling to do it.
If a wolf attacks me, my family, or my property I'm gonna KILL IT if I can. If I'm not mistaken the "law" says I can.
The reason I made the statement to the young man "shoot, shovel, and shut-up" was to spare him the agony of having to justify what he might do to defend his dogs from wolves. Some folks felt that I was advising the fella to break the law--I don't think I was. The last part was to state my position if certain things were to happen and question if others were willing to take the same position. Is that clear enough for you?



Edit: Was this post directed at me? If it was:

I did not call you any names, here or on the other thread. So no, this is not clear to me.

You are correct....you can legally kill wolves (or bear or lion) in order to protect you family and property. I stated this on the other thread. However, SSS implies breaking the law. You understand that, right?

As far as the last part goes, that part was clear to me. This is why I clarified to YOU the rules of engagement for American police officers. As I have stated, they (we) are not trained to "take people out" as you have stated.

I have been around gun boards long enough to know that when people such as yourself start referring to having their guns taken, it always reverts back to the police as being the "bad guys" who will perpetrate this horrible deed.

Just clearing that up...
 
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Hope I didn't just open another can of worms. So i don't misunderstand are you saying that if a law gets passed that says I must surrender my guns and I not only fail to adhere to it but defend my right to keep them with deadly force that you are goig to defend me or call out the Marines?
 
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Hope I didn't just open another can of worms. So i don't misunderstand are you saying that if a law gets passed that says I must surrender my guns and I not only fail to adhere to it but defend my right to keep them with deadly force that you are goig to defend me or call out the Marines?


Dedogs,

If there is such a horrible law passed, I promise you I will not take your guns from you.

Fair enough?
 
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Hope I didn't just open another can of worms. So i don't misunderstand are you saying that if a law gets passed that says I must surrender my guns and I not only fail to adhere to it but defend my right to keep them with deadly force that you are goig to defend me or call out the Marines?



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
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Hope I didn't just open another can of worms. So i don't misunderstand are you saying that if a law gets passed that says I must surrender my guns and I not only fail to adhere to it but defend my right to keep them with deadly force that you are goig to defend me or call out the Marines?



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif




+1 on that
 
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