Since the thread that had a good ethics discussion going was locked...
- Thread starter Vogelsong
- Start date
"That’s about as useless as the coyotes’ enjoyment of eating sheep comparison."
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They also thrill kill and never eat them. They can wipe out your livelihood. That's why I have no qualms about the guy posting pictures. If you really want to make it right...stop shooting animals.
Whomever runs this show, please delete me from your membership. Didn't know that there would be so much BS on this forum. I am gone!
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They also thrill kill and never eat them. They can wipe out your livelihood. That's why I have no qualms about the guy posting pictures. If you really want to make it right...stop shooting animals.
Whomever runs this show, please delete me from your membership. Didn't know that there would be so much BS on this forum. I am gone!
dedogs
New member
Guys I am not a fast typer and the posts on my screen seem to be out of chronological order. Neither am I very computer savvy---4949Shooter if you look at the return addresses on my posts you will see that some of my replies were not directed at you. I'm sorry for all the confusion this morning. Think I'll just keep my thoughts to myself for awhile--not running away or hiding just re-grouping. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
4949shooter
New member
No problem, dedogs.
I hope to see you again soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I hope to see you again soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
HighPlainsDrifter
New member
In the aftermath, you handled this about as well as anyone could have Barry. My comments that I made towards the top of this thread were not meant to be directed specifically towards you. I disagreed with the act. I further disagreed with the people that defended the act. I have no problem with forgive and forget. We all make mistakes that we would love to take back but cant. I try to make it a point in my life to never hold a grudge or judge a person on a single act. It is my right and I feel, my duty, to stand up for what I believe in. Its the defense of that act that many of us find unnacceptable and where we are making our stand.
Switch
New member
Everyone makes mistakes. Did Barry make one? You bet! We all hunt and the end result is always the same; the animal dies. As humans we can make the choice on how quickly and efficiently we make that happen. It is common decency to end that animals life as quickly as possible. I do it out of respect. Anything less than that is brutal, not a part of hunting and a bad example to anyone who is thinking of getting into our activity...PERIOD!
He realized the error in judgement and took the photo down. I don't agree with the image or the twisted reason it was taken, but I do agree on his actions that followed.
I do not agree that the topic should've been locked down. You don't like what's being said, so you take your ball and go home? Leave it open, take your lumps and move on. I'm willing to bet if the first post had run it's course, it'd be on page 5 by now right under the post, "where do I go to call coyotes?"
This begs the question; would the photo have been taken if the internet wasn't around? It sure seems that now a days most go out hunting just to rush back to their computer to post up the pictures. IMO they are truly missing the point.
Of all the posts on this topic, I agree highly with the one submitted by Q.
He realized the error in judgement and took the photo down. I don't agree with the image or the twisted reason it was taken, but I do agree on his actions that followed.
I do not agree that the topic should've been locked down. You don't like what's being said, so you take your ball and go home? Leave it open, take your lumps and move on. I'm willing to bet if the first post had run it's course, it'd be on page 5 by now right under the post, "where do I go to call coyotes?"
This begs the question; would the photo have been taken if the internet wasn't around? It sure seems that now a days most go out hunting just to rush back to their computer to post up the pictures. IMO they are truly missing the point.
Of all the posts on this topic, I agree highly with the one submitted by Q.
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I think its funny how people cant understnad Mother Nature and Natural Instincts, lets punish the coyote for doing what comes natural to it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
Like Patterson said ( i think it was Patetrson) Lets spine shoot deer because of the damage the do to cars /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Like Patterson said ( i think it was Patetrson) Lets spine shoot deer because of the damage the do to cars /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
timb
New member
Quote:
You cant win this one Vogelsong. First it starts with comparing apples and oranges (like branding or castrating livestock is even in the same league with wounding something and not following up as quick as possible). Then when they start feeling some heat, they just shut it down and shut everyone up. Thats democracy at work. Why anyone would want to lay their hands on a live Coyote anyway is beyond me. As for the animals who are photographed for outdoor magazines that may or may not have their foot stuck in a trap? Anyone who intends to harvest a living animal, who takes the time to have a little play time or photo op is a moron. This has nothing to do with ethics. Q was spot on with his posts. It is the difference between right and wrong. Its about decency. I also read several say that the animal wasnt suffering or it was in too much shock to feel pain. BS is what I say to that. How about fear? How about sheer terror moments before you die. Animals dont experience this? Really? Why do they run and/or hide when they sense danger? Survival instinct? Another fancy term that means nothing more than fear. Then others want to pawn this off as, its just another way of hunting or we all need to stand united. BS again. We need to lead by example. Its not the Anti crowd we need to worry about. Its the fence riders that could very well hold the future of our sport in their hands. Is this the way we want our hunting heritage to be displayed to those that are not sure what side they are on? How about new hunters or even better, our youth? This is the example we are setting. Last time I attended or taught at a hunters safety class, I missed the part about walking up to a wounded animal and wrestling with it while your buddy photographs the spectacle. Then those that disagree with the whole thing are called names, are told to go elsewhere, are accused of being blasted by Disneyites and otherwise ridiculed. Interesting to say the least. My hat is off to those that took a stand.
HPD,
You hit the nail on the head! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Right now, 7% of the population hunts, 7% are anti's, and 86% don't care one way or the other, as long as it is done legally.
When I teach ethics in Hunter Ed, I constantly remind the students that everything that is legal may not be ethical, and to just take a step back before they do something that may be questionable and think about it.
I am not preaching, and as I said in a thread about displaying coyote carcasses in Kansas, I can only control myself and my behavior.
My contention is that a lack of ethics can surely be as damaging to our hunting rights as legislative attacks can be on the 2nd Amendment.
I am not a wuss, a whiner or a cryer--nor do I shrink away from proudly telling folks I hunt and own guns. What I do however, is to make sure that I personally do not cause one of the 86% to drop into the anti pile to tip the scales against us.
Regards,
Tim
You cant win this one Vogelsong. First it starts with comparing apples and oranges (like branding or castrating livestock is even in the same league with wounding something and not following up as quick as possible). Then when they start feeling some heat, they just shut it down and shut everyone up. Thats democracy at work. Why anyone would want to lay their hands on a live Coyote anyway is beyond me. As for the animals who are photographed for outdoor magazines that may or may not have their foot stuck in a trap? Anyone who intends to harvest a living animal, who takes the time to have a little play time or photo op is a moron. This has nothing to do with ethics. Q was spot on with his posts. It is the difference between right and wrong. Its about decency. I also read several say that the animal wasnt suffering or it was in too much shock to feel pain. BS is what I say to that. How about fear? How about sheer terror moments before you die. Animals dont experience this? Really? Why do they run and/or hide when they sense danger? Survival instinct? Another fancy term that means nothing more than fear. Then others want to pawn this off as, its just another way of hunting or we all need to stand united. BS again. We need to lead by example. Its not the Anti crowd we need to worry about. Its the fence riders that could very well hold the future of our sport in their hands. Is this the way we want our hunting heritage to be displayed to those that are not sure what side they are on? How about new hunters or even better, our youth? This is the example we are setting. Last time I attended or taught at a hunters safety class, I missed the part about walking up to a wounded animal and wrestling with it while your buddy photographs the spectacle. Then those that disagree with the whole thing are called names, are told to go elsewhere, are accused of being blasted by Disneyites and otherwise ridiculed. Interesting to say the least. My hat is off to those that took a stand.
HPD,
You hit the nail on the head! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Right now, 7% of the population hunts, 7% are anti's, and 86% don't care one way or the other, as long as it is done legally.
When I teach ethics in Hunter Ed, I constantly remind the students that everything that is legal may not be ethical, and to just take a step back before they do something that may be questionable and think about it.
I am not preaching, and as I said in a thread about displaying coyote carcasses in Kansas, I can only control myself and my behavior.
My contention is that a lack of ethics can surely be as damaging to our hunting rights as legislative attacks can be on the 2nd Amendment.
I am not a wuss, a whiner or a cryer--nor do I shrink away from proudly telling folks I hunt and own guns. What I do however, is to make sure that I personally do not cause one of the 86% to drop into the anti pile to tip the scales against us.
Regards,
Tim
Vogelsong
New member
Quote:
In the aftermath, you handled this about as well as anyone could have Barry. My comments that I made towards the top of this thread were not meant to be directed specifically towards you. I disagreed with the act. I further disagreed with the people that defended the act. I have no problem with forgive and forget. We all make mistakes that we would love to take back but cant. I try to make it a point in my life to never hold a grudge or judge a person on a single act. It is my right and I feel, my duty, to stand up for what I believe in. Its the defense of that act that many of us find unnacceptable and where we are making our stand.
Well put.
In the aftermath, you handled this about as well as anyone could have Barry. My comments that I made towards the top of this thread were not meant to be directed specifically towards you. I disagreed with the act. I further disagreed with the people that defended the act. I have no problem with forgive and forget. We all make mistakes that we would love to take back but cant. I try to make it a point in my life to never hold a grudge or judge a person on a single act. It is my right and I feel, my duty, to stand up for what I believe in. Its the defense of that act that many of us find unnacceptable and where we are making our stand.
Well put.
VantuckyKain
New member
Hey guys I dont really know why I feel the need to add my comment here but here it goes anyways. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
First I would just like to say that Rockinbbar and the other Mods did the right thing and handled the other thread as professionals.
Second I believe that we as humans and the most lethal predators the world has ever known can not put ourselves on the same level as our prey. We have the ability to feel compassion, and have the responsibility to be as lethal and efficient killers as we can. This means practicing with your chosen weapon, patterning your shotgun, finding the most accurate round for your rifle, using enough gun for the intended prey, and doing everything you can to retrieve and dispatch wounded animals. Limit the stress, suffering, and pain as much as HUMANLY possible when we hunt.
Calling people whiners, and girls because they dont agree with you is still name calling. It is not "manly" to allow an animal to suffer any more than necessary. We can all get excited and handle things poorly at times but lets just continue to try our hardest to be civil to each other when we disagree.
First I would just like to say that Rockinbbar and the other Mods did the right thing and handled the other thread as professionals.
Second I believe that we as humans and the most lethal predators the world has ever known can not put ourselves on the same level as our prey. We have the ability to feel compassion, and have the responsibility to be as lethal and efficient killers as we can. This means practicing with your chosen weapon, patterning your shotgun, finding the most accurate round for your rifle, using enough gun for the intended prey, and doing everything you can to retrieve and dispatch wounded animals. Limit the stress, suffering, and pain as much as HUMANLY possible when we hunt.
Calling people whiners, and girls because they dont agree with you is still name calling. It is not "manly" to allow an animal to suffer any more than necessary. We can all get excited and handle things poorly at times but lets just continue to try our hardest to be civil to each other when we disagree.
s_xander
New member
is this still the ethics thread ?
as a child growing up i was tought if you kill it you eat it
i can remember eating a ground hog cuz my granny saw me kill it (nasty) a robin too (not too bad )when i started yote hunting it was to try and save our deer& bunny popultion and we flat out didnt care if we hit one and it went off and died a slow painfull death cuz we just saved a few fawns and a bunch of bunnys to hunt up later (hows that for ethics) well needles to say the more i hunted them the more i learned to respect and love them yet i still kill them 20 some yrs later and you dang sure aint gonna catch me eating one now i seen the pic of that ol boy holding that yote up while it was alive and my first thoughts had nothing to do with ethics they were more on the line of he is a retard for picking up a critter that would tear his arm off we have all done some retarded stuff in our time [beeep] i walked up to a badger and kicked it once after haveing to buy new cammo pants i thought man was i retarded anyways back to ethics if i shoot any animal and i dont see it go down dead i feel bad be it a deer or a squiral and everything inbetween not everyone is going to feel the same as me now i could go on and on about things i have done in the past but the mods would kick me off and i dont want that as long as we can all agree that we all some times disagree we are all here for the same thing a true passion and love for our sport
as a child growing up i was tought if you kill it you eat it
i can remember eating a ground hog cuz my granny saw me kill it (nasty) a robin too (not too bad )when i started yote hunting it was to try and save our deer& bunny popultion and we flat out didnt care if we hit one and it went off and died a slow painfull death cuz we just saved a few fawns and a bunch of bunnys to hunt up later (hows that for ethics) well needles to say the more i hunted them the more i learned to respect and love them yet i still kill them 20 some yrs later and you dang sure aint gonna catch me eating one now i seen the pic of that ol boy holding that yote up while it was alive and my first thoughts had nothing to do with ethics they were more on the line of he is a retard for picking up a critter that would tear his arm off we have all done some retarded stuff in our time [beeep] i walked up to a badger and kicked it once after haveing to buy new cammo pants i thought man was i retarded anyways back to ethics if i shoot any animal and i dont see it go down dead i feel bad be it a deer or a squiral and everything inbetween not everyone is going to feel the same as me now i could go on and on about things i have done in the past but the mods would kick me off and i dont want that as long as we can all agree that we all some times disagree we are all here for the same thing a true passion and love for our sport
Discussion and debate can be good, but has anybody changed their mind or feelings about the subject at hand? Much has been shared here and on the thread that was locked. Has any of it done anything other than allow you to voice your own personal opinion? I think this is where the beating the dead horse icon is supposed to be.
Vogelsong
New member
Quote:
Discussion and debate can be good, but has anybody changed their mind or feelings about the subject at hand? Much has been shared here and on the thread that was locked. Has any of it done anything other than allow you to voice your own personal opinion? I think this is where the beating the dead horse icon is supposed to be.
Weasel, as I said before, if it gets people thinking that otherwise may not have, than it was worth talking about.
Im sure this thread has been viewed by plenty of people that we havn't even heard from. Now maybe some of them don't care.
Or maybe some went away not sure how they feel, and are now thinking about it, and their past actions. If they are than it was a discussion worth having.
Have a nice day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Discussion and debate can be good, but has anybody changed their mind or feelings about the subject at hand? Much has been shared here and on the thread that was locked. Has any of it done anything other than allow you to voice your own personal opinion? I think this is where the beating the dead horse icon is supposed to be.
Weasel, as I said before, if it gets people thinking that otherwise may not have, than it was worth talking about.
Im sure this thread has been viewed by plenty of people that we havn't even heard from. Now maybe some of them don't care.
Or maybe some went away not sure how they feel, and are now thinking about it, and their past actions. If they are than it was a discussion worth having.
Have a nice day. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Patterson
New member
Isn't that what 90% or more of the post on here are Weasel?? OPINION /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
So why is this different than talking about caliber selection, red/white light, summer hunting?? Its not and just because a lot of people severely disagree with some moderators and a few others does not make it beating a dead horse.
So why is this different than talking about caliber selection, red/white light, summer hunting?? Its not and just because a lot of people severely disagree with some moderators and a few others does not make it beating a dead horse.
deerhunterjj
New member
Refering to guns being taken i read or watched some where they asked several LEO if a law was passed would they uphold it with takeing guns. All said no. Belive it or not 90% i would say LEO want use to keep are guns and do not want them banned. Most all of them hunt as well and enjoy the shooting sport just as much as i and everyone else dose. They see first hand the people that do create a problem with guns and most all of them i bet can not pass a back ground check. The LEOs know where the problem lies and its not the guns its the wack jobs that are behind them. If there is any LEOs correct me here if im wrong. I belive that it will not happen americans takening are guns. It will be some other fource that is created to do it. They know americans will stand together like every other time things have gotten nasty.
I believe a small percent would not, but to keep their jobs most would. Look at the aftermath of Katrina..even LEO's from out of state came in an confinscated all firearms illegally. It took lawsuits from the NRA, and even then they were stored so badly most were unrepairable. Easy to say what you would do, hard to do just that!
Vogelsong
New member
The whole Katrina thing really ticks me off.
The big problem I have with it is that the gov't can still say to itself, "we'll take the guns and make them spend their money sueing us to get them back, and when they do get them we'll just make sure they're inoperable".
If someone thinks I could be giving anyone bad ideas, feel free to let me know, and it can be deleted.
The big problem I have with it is that the gov't can still say to itself, "we'll take the guns and make them spend their money sueing us to get them back, and when they do get them we'll just make sure they're inoperable".
If someone thinks I could be giving anyone bad ideas, feel free to let me know, and it can be deleted.
wishin4dogs
New member
Quote:
HPD,
You hit the nail on the head! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Right now, 7% of the population hunts, 7% are anti's, and 86% don't care one way or the other, as long as it is done legally.
When I teach ethics in Hunter Ed, I constantly remind the students that everything that is legal may not be ethical, and to just take a step back before they do something that may be questionable and think about it.
I am not preaching, and as I said in a thread about displaying coyote carcasses in Kansas, I can only control myself and my behavior.
My contention is that a lack of ethics can surely be as damaging to our hunting rights as legislative attacks can be on the 2nd Amendment.
I am not a wuss, a whiner or a cryer--nor do I shrink away from proudly telling folks I hunt and own guns. What I do however, is to make sure that I personally do not cause one of the 86% to drop into the anti pile to tip the scales against us.
Regards,
Tim
Tim, please don't take this as a personal attack. You are teaching incorrect principles if you are telling your students that some acts may not be ethical even if they are legal. Ethics are not set-in-stone rules, they are personal beliefs, just like religion. So, just like religion, each person's ethics differ. Some people don't like the hunting of animals by the use of trained dogs, but, where legal, it is ethical to those that participate in it. My point is, and always has been, that, just because you may not like someone's way of doing things does not make it wrong. If a crime is commited, then we should do everything in our power to punish the person(s) responsible. However, why do we need to debate whether or not another person's actions should be legal or not, and for the love of everything holy, why should we ever think of adding more laws in our screwy country?
This thread was started off with a moronic (it was said many times before me, so I'll continue the streak) comparison to bull fighting. Why? Well here is my moronic ethics statement: I don't like hunting with AR style weapons, so anyone that uses them is unethical, should not be allowed to post their pictures here, and should be thrown in jail for doing so. Does that make sense? Ethical debates divide our masses, lead to horrible laws, and give more power to anti-hunting psychos than any pictures or videos posted on sites like this.
HPD,
You hit the nail on the head! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Right now, 7% of the population hunts, 7% are anti's, and 86% don't care one way or the other, as long as it is done legally.
When I teach ethics in Hunter Ed, I constantly remind the students that everything that is legal may not be ethical, and to just take a step back before they do something that may be questionable and think about it.
I am not preaching, and as I said in a thread about displaying coyote carcasses in Kansas, I can only control myself and my behavior.
My contention is that a lack of ethics can surely be as damaging to our hunting rights as legislative attacks can be on the 2nd Amendment.
I am not a wuss, a whiner or a cryer--nor do I shrink away from proudly telling folks I hunt and own guns. What I do however, is to make sure that I personally do not cause one of the 86% to drop into the anti pile to tip the scales against us.
Regards,
Tim
Tim, please don't take this as a personal attack. You are teaching incorrect principles if you are telling your students that some acts may not be ethical even if they are legal. Ethics are not set-in-stone rules, they are personal beliefs, just like religion. So, just like religion, each person's ethics differ. Some people don't like the hunting of animals by the use of trained dogs, but, where legal, it is ethical to those that participate in it. My point is, and always has been, that, just because you may not like someone's way of doing things does not make it wrong. If a crime is commited, then we should do everything in our power to punish the person(s) responsible. However, why do we need to debate whether or not another person's actions should be legal or not, and for the love of everything holy, why should we ever think of adding more laws in our screwy country?
This thread was started off with a moronic (it was said many times before me, so I'll continue the streak) comparison to bull fighting. Why? Well here is my moronic ethics statement: I don't like hunting with AR style weapons, so anyone that uses them is unethical, should not be allowed to post their pictures here, and should be thrown in jail for doing so. Does that make sense? Ethical debates divide our masses, lead to horrible laws, and give more power to anti-hunting psychos than any pictures or videos posted on sites like this.