Stereo-Mono Issues

N

Nahuatl

New member
I still need some independent verification of the problem I have with my own FX5 and I've passed along a stereo file to a couple of FoxPro owners I respect very much for their additional input.

When I play a discretely stereo sound and play it on the FoxPro, with one animal on the left channel and another on the right, both channels play out of both speakers. There is no separation and no stereo. When I play the same stereo sound file on my Bandit, one sound - one speaker, absolute stereo. With the Bandit, if I shut off one speaker, one of the channels and one of the animal sounds is totally gone. With the FX5, if I shut off one speaker, I still hear both channels and both animals in one speaker. It doesn't matter if it's the cone or the horn that's on - both channels play.

I wonder if any other FX users have noticed the same problem?
 
Interesting. It may be that the FX5 isn't stereo and the Minaska is? I'm not sure if the FX5 is stereo or not since when I mix sounds I don't put them on separate tracks.

If the Minaska is designed as a stereo, and each speaker can be independently controlled from the remote, that might be a very useful feature indeed for those of us who like to mix sounds.
 
Gary,

The FX5 is not a stereo unit. The Scorpion is. In fact, with the Scorpion, you can remotely control the speakers from the remote. For example, let's say that you have a coyote and rabbit recorded in stereo mode. From the remote, you can turn off speaker a, and have the coyote playing on speaker b. Then, you could turn off speaker b, and only have the rabbit playing. It didn't make sense to us to use a stereo system unless you could remotely control the speakers from the transmitter. It is much more user friendly that way, and we are certainly the first to bring this feature to our units. Also, with our remote, you can turn on and off the main unit remotely. If you wanted to leave it at a stand, you could return at a later date (weeks later) and turn on the unit, and start your stand again.
 
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I still need some independent verification of the problem I have with my own FX5 and I've passed along a stereo file to a couple of FoxPro owners I respect very much for their additional input.

When I play a discretely stereo sound and play it on the FoxPro, with one animal on the left channel and another on the right, both channels play out of both speakers. There is no separation and no stereo. When I play the same stereo sound file on my Bandit, one sound - one speaker, absolute stereo. With the Bandit, if I shut off one speaker, one of the channels and one of the animal sounds is totally gone. With the FX5, if I shut off one speaker, I still hear both channels and both animals in one speaker. It doesn't matter if it's the cone or the horn that's on - both channels play.

I wonder if any other FX users have noticed the same problem?



Gary when you are on a stand with your bandit how do you turn each speakers on and off separately? Since you brought it up I was curious how you could do this in your hunting environment.

When using the M1 with a stereo sound how do you get both channels to be heard without using another speaker? I know you like to use things as they come right out of the box. If you only want to use a large external speaker on the M1 how do you get both channels to play?


I'm just trying to understand how this is a "problem" with the FX series? As you found out the FX series will play a stereo file. We sum the channels together before the power amp stage so that each channel can benefit from the horn and the cone speaker.

With the Scorpion you can turn each speaker on and off with the remote. You can configure the Scorpion to be either Mono or Stereo.
 
Hey Gary: It appears that Foxpro Steve has posted the answer I was going to send directly to you, so I'll just add my take on that. If you can't control the channels with your remote, that would mean you would have to hold the caller in your hand to turn speakers on and off. This is just my opinion, but I don't see a lot of value in having a unit work in stereo if you have to sit right on top of it to avail yourself of that feature. The Scorpion is a different issue. You can put external speakers anywhere you want to for true sound seperation, if that is your cup of tea. With the Prairie Blaster, you can add one SP-55 external speaker, let it represent one channel, and the onboard SP-55 the other channel, and get true stereo and control of each speaker, just like the Scorpion. I don't see the stereo issue as a problem at all with the FX-5. The mixed sounds with periods of silence sandwiched in appropriately does the job for me. The horn speaker in the FX-5 is very directional, and I use that to make Wylie show up where I want him to. Kind of like Brent Saxton, I like to make the coyote pay for the privilege of getting downwind or eye to eye with the sound source. I don't need the FX-5 to work in stereo to do my thing.
 
I don't think I can do justice to all the questions and comments above and I don't think its worth much straying off toward those various tangents here in this thread. You answered my question and I'm relieved that my own FX5 is just mono and not broken, nor does it need repair. Thank you. And Al, thanks for the help.

Both for my own elucidation and to share with other e-caller enthusiasts during demonstrations, I put together a short collection of test sounds that include high-frequency test tones, mono and stereo music files, and stereo animal sounds. Those comparisons really help show off the features of all the callers. It's been fun visiting the clubs, doing my amateurish demonstrations, and getting to make some new friends, even hunting with some of them. I think all the hunters with whom I've spoken would tell you I try my best to present the best and worst of everything - and hopefully save them some time and money in the process of choosing their own first e-caller or upgrade. I let the e-callers speak for themselves.

Stereo sound mixing and its application to coyote hunting is a relatively unexplored but very interesting idea that deserves another thread or two of its own. Bandit users have this capability now without any added accessories using its discrete two-channel amp and one of the sound editors. It sounds like the brand new Scorpion with an added remote speaker has this capability also. While I'm not certain if it adds anything productive in a hunting context, I've been having fun playing with some stereo sounds that allow me to have a screaming rabbit in front of me and still send an occasional bark, growl, or hunt whine up the canyon on the Big Country's TOA horn. Placed in a bank adjacent to a stereo one-channel rabbit file, it's a seamless one-button switch from the rabbit distress call to the coyote-up-the-canyon trick and back to the rabbit in front of me. And more interestingly, I put together a cross fade stereo file that moves back and forth between the speakers at my desk, and makes a rabbit sound like it's moving back and forth in the bushes on my Bandit . Whether it works better than a straight mono call on coyotes, I don't know, but it sure sounds good and will be a fun test in the desert in coming weeks. That idea is based solely on the gear I have now and a little creative sound mixing here at my desk. It doesn't require any remote control, speaker switching, or action by me.

I've got to defer to the Borlands for their own ideas on Minaska's potential products and stereo remote capabilities. FoxPro is certainly proud of theirs and rightly so. For now, I'm hunting with what I have in my hands and when the hardware changes, I'll adjust and put it to work also.
 
Peter, I've had a stereo Bandit for almost two years. Unless something has radically changed with this new offering, I still can't read the FoxPro remote, can't edit .FXP sounds, and I prefer the TOA speaker. Even you put a TOA on your FoxPro.
 
Gary,
It's good to be young and read the fine print, because I can't carry a 200 soundlist on paper with me. I dread the day when my sight goes south. The TOA is a great speaker for cold weather use due to the aluminum horn and they rough terrain I travel through. I would like a speaker with a smaller profile than the TOA's though, since they're nasty to put in a pack and travel with due to their oblong shape. I'm still trying to find a way to easily carry the WT Pelican/TOA combo. I'm thinking that the SP55 might fit the bill there since it's more compact, but have yet to try that out.
 
Peter: If a critter can't hear that SP-55, he must be deaf, and it would be hopeless to try and call him in (lol). If the SP-55 will work for you in your climate, it will surely cut down on the overall size of your setup. As for stereo, I see no advantage at all if you don't get sufficient distance between the speakers. With good seperation, I can easily see setting up a scenario that sounds like a coyote and a fox yapping back and forth, and then changing to a coyote/fox fight out of either speaker, and you have realism. In my opinion, seperate sounds coming out of two speakers close together has little stereo effect.
 
Al, you get your opinion, but it isn't based on any experience with a stereo caller. Many others will disagree with you. What they did agree on was the need to replace the FX3/5's horn speaker with something, anything - a Toa SC110, the 55 - whatever. The built in speaker, compared to anything else, isn't very good. Plugging in another speaker with any length of cord isn't going to help either. You heard it from the Dillons; it's a mono caller. There is no fix for its poor performance in my stereo demonstration.
 
Gary,
When you/they figure out how I can listen to Elvis while playing a screamer in sterio for the coyotes, all in one unit, I'll buy it.
 
Gary,

Sorry to have to disagree with you on the bell speaker. You see, we know a LITTLE about e-calls also. While you may be out for the maximum amount of volume regardless of size, some still prefer a compact call. We offer a caller for everyone's needs, but have you noticed what is the most popular size? You see, Gary Clevenger may not like the sound when compared to something with larger speakers, but there are not too many Gary Clevengers out there. Most prefer a more compact system, and are willing to sacrifice the size for a more compact machine. And don't try to pull the trick shots on the units. Believe me, the FX series is much more compact than the Big Country. I can wear it on my side tucked under my arm all day long, and not know that it is even there.
I would love to see your stereo demonstration also. But this time, in a real hunting environment, where you don't have access to the speakers. We wouldn't consider making a stereo unit without giving you the ability to remotely control the speakers. It is very easy to make a unit stereo--a little more difficult to control those speakers from a remote.
I am sure someday we will have something that will make you happy without critiquing Gary. Or, maybe not. Oh well, we won't stop trying. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
interesting!

Gary, where did your comparison of the bandit/wt thread go?

I lightly skimmed it and went to go back for the full read and now I can't find it.

Did someone pull it or have it pulled???
 
Gary: Not trying to make you mad. I think you know better than that. Anyone can disagree with my opinion all they want; that is what opinion is all about. I am simply saying that you don't get a true stereo effect with two speakers right on top of each other. That is true with a game caller or a stereo in your home. From my experience, if you can't call a coyote in with a FX-5, there is something wrong with the technique being used. The problem is not with the caller. You are very successful in your methods of hunting, and that is a proven fact, but I doubt it has anything to do with a stereo ecaller. If I want stereo effect, I'll take a Scorpion and seperate either the onboard speaker and a seperate SP-55, or I'll hook up two seperate SP-55 speakers, the proper distance apart, and give the critters a true, realistic, stereo approach. I'll be able to sit back on a distant hill and control both speakers with my remote control too. So far, I have had no trouble calling in coyotes with the Scorpion with just the built in speaker though, so I think I'll finish that field test before getting into stereo effects.
 
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interesting!

Gary, where did your comparison of the bandit/wt thread go?

I lightly skimmed it and went to go back for the full read and now I can't find it.

Did someone pull it or have it pulled???



What forum was it in? I did not pull any thread nor have I been informed of anyone else pulling a thread.
 
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Believe me, the FX series is much more compact than the Big Country



holding.jpg


size2.jpg


size3.jpg


Not really that much smaller and you can also have the built in decoy if you like.

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I can wear it on my side tucked under my arm all day long, and not know that it is even there.



So can I, and with the Ultimate I can also pull the rod and topper out of my pocket and use the decoy option if I want to.

The one comment we usually get with the Big Country or the Ultimate One is how compact it really is.
 
Sorry guys, but like I said, no trick photos. How about a shot like this:

IMG_2728.JPG


Then, tuck it under your arm. You seemed to miss the side by side shots.

Somebody want a decoy with a caller, just call our Custom Shop, and we will get you fixed right up.
 
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Just a little question for the minaska pics above... if we are going to look at pics to compare products, would it be fair to turn both units when you try for a different angle? Since the foxpro is not square it is not a fair representation to only provide different angles of one call.
 


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