The king period
- Thread starter chefpierre
- Start date
Depends on your definition of "King", but I'd vote for the 22 LR first in terms of #'s of rounds fired per year, then probably 223, then 30-06, then 30-30, then 308 - maybe move the 30-30 & 06 & 308 around a bit? In terms of a grand old cartridge that can do it all well - 30-06 hands down in numbers and across the board usability. 308's right behind it. The 270 and others are fine cartridges in their own rights, hut not nearly as popular, or reliable on bigger game (baears, moose, etc.). JMHO.
xtrempredhntr
New member
Yeah, the meaning of "king" can have a pretty broad meaning. When making a choice I looked at availability of ammo and guns, broad spectrum of applications (tactical, hunting and the animals it is used on regularly, use in shooting matches, etc), range of guns it is used in (semi-auto, single shot, bolt action), ease of use for most shooters even the young and recoil sensitive. How long it has been around, how many offspring the case has produced, and just plain old popularity. After relooking at all this, I might have to change my pick to the 308...and I don't really care for the round...LOL. But the 30-06 coming in second...with the last calibers I mentioned in the other post coming in behind the 06. Again not saying there is nothing better then these rounds for certain applications, just great old all-round choices. That is what I look at when looking for the "king".
Greg_Meyer
New member
If "King" is defined by the number of rifles produced, we need to be less parochial and look at the whole world. Given the overwhelming production of the rifle and the cartridge, the "worlwide" king is probably the .303 in an Enfield. (It was the rifle of the British Empire from WWI through Korea) Second through fifth, probably a close race between the 7X57, the .30-06, .308/7.62X55 or the 7.62X39
chefpierre
New member
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunThis guy must be shooting a 375........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0EzJ99LCKU&feature=related
That is too funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0EzJ99LCKU&feature=related
That is too funny.
Ackman
New member
This "king" business is a tough call. Maybe there needs to be a standard. When considering anything - car, television, impact wrench, cartridge.....anything - for "king-ness," maybe these questions should be asked:
1) Does owning this thing make you puff out your chest a bit?
2) Do owners of this thing exchange knowing winks?
3) Does owning this thing make you feel smug in your decisions?
4) Just how "excellent" is it to own this thing? (a) most excellent (b) pretty well excellent (c) only fair to middlin' excellent
5) Did this thing pick you?
And double points for this one....
6) Are you - really and truly - a better person for owning this thing/chunk of steel?
If the answer is yes to all of them, that thing is sure 'nuf king qualified.
1) Does owning this thing make you puff out your chest a bit?
2) Do owners of this thing exchange knowing winks?
3) Does owning this thing make you feel smug in your decisions?
4) Just how "excellent" is it to own this thing? (a) most excellent (b) pretty well excellent (c) only fair to middlin' excellent
5) Did this thing pick you?
And double points for this one....
6) Are you - really and truly - a better person for owning this thing/chunk of steel?
If the answer is yes to all of them, that thing is sure 'nuf king qualified.
chefpierre
New member
BCB and 2muchgun you guys know quite a bit about firearms and we respect your knowledge and what you guys can share with us. I beleive the term "phucktards" may be a bit inapropriate. Hey maybe you were having a bad day. I am not "calling you out", but I thought we were having a friendly discussion as we always do about firearms, cartridges, ballistics, etc.... People like me come to these forums to share thoughts, ideas, receive opinion from people that we normally dont encounter on a day-to-day basis. Remember we all here because we need to share one our passions.
Thank you
El Chefo
Thank you
El Chefo
xtrempredhntr
New member
Hey Greg...Just wondering where the 6.5x55 stands as far as sales go world wide? I know that round is alot more popular in other countrys than it is here.
quarterbored
New member
Originally Posted By: 2muchgun
It don't take long to spot a cull.........
If you don't mind... this will become a part of my daily language. Freakin' hillarious... even funnier that 99 out of 100 folks will have no clue what you're talking about.
Originally Posted By: xtrempredhntr Since alot of people don't load, this is a big factor. Now you do hear of them using the 375 H&H (why no vote for the 375 Ruger?) in Africa for varmints, but not so much here (not saying there are not a few). Where as I bet you can find a few more people around that shoot varmints with thier 06. I think that the main reason they use the 375 in Africa for varmints is mainly cause thats what they have avilable to them, and you never know what might come up on you.
It still cracks me up how many folks think the .375 has hellacious recoil... and have never shot one. Most folks don't think twice about a mediocre load out of their 12 gauge... and that is the recoil equivilent to the .375 running 260s. I can't think of a better elk/moose/bear rifle than the .375... I've killed with one... and it definately leaves an impression on the critters it hits!
Oh... and here's a "varmint" kill with the .375... coyote vs. 260 Accubond:
Here's a 200+ pound Blacktail buck vs. 260 Accubond. This deer dropped so dead to a lung shot... that it hit the ground and didn't even tip over. No, I didn't poach it... date on the camera was messed up. Oh, and that grey patch behind the shoulder is the exit... didn't do a thing to the hide... but the lungs/heart looked like 5-gallons of raspberry jam.
It don't take long to spot a cull.........
If you don't mind... this will become a part of my daily language. Freakin' hillarious... even funnier that 99 out of 100 folks will have no clue what you're talking about.
Originally Posted By: xtrempredhntr Since alot of people don't load, this is a big factor. Now you do hear of them using the 375 H&H (why no vote for the 375 Ruger?) in Africa for varmints, but not so much here (not saying there are not a few). Where as I bet you can find a few more people around that shoot varmints with thier 06. I think that the main reason they use the 375 in Africa for varmints is mainly cause thats what they have avilable to them, and you never know what might come up on you.
It still cracks me up how many folks think the .375 has hellacious recoil... and have never shot one. Most folks don't think twice about a mediocre load out of their 12 gauge... and that is the recoil equivilent to the .375 running 260s. I can't think of a better elk/moose/bear rifle than the .375... I've killed with one... and it definately leaves an impression on the critters it hits!
Oh... and here's a "varmint" kill with the .375... coyote vs. 260 Accubond:
Here's a 200+ pound Blacktail buck vs. 260 Accubond. This deer dropped so dead to a lung shot... that it hit the ground and didn't even tip over. No, I didn't poach it... date on the camera was messed up. Oh, and that grey patch behind the shoulder is the exit... didn't do a thing to the hide... but the lungs/heart looked like 5-gallons of raspberry jam.
Bayou City Boy
New member
Originally Posted By: quarterboredOriginally Posted By: 2muchgun
It don't take long to spot a cull.........
If you don't mind... this will become a part of my daily language. Freakin' hillarious... even funnier that 99 out of 100 folks will have no clue what you're talking about.
Originally Posted By: xtrempredhntr Since alot of people don't load, this is a big factor. Now you do hear of them using the 375 H&H (why no vote for the 375 Ruger?) in Africa for varmints, but not so much here (not saying there are not a few). Where as I bet you can find a few more people around that shoot varmints with thier 06. I think that the main reason they use the 375 in Africa for varmints is mainly cause thats what they have avilable to them, and you never know what might come up on you.
It still cracks me up how many folks think the .375 has hellacious recoil... and have never shot one. Most folks don't think twice about a mediocre load out of their 12 gauge... and that is the recoil equivilent to the .375 running 260s. I can't think of a better elk/moose/bear rifle than the .375... I've killed with one... and it definately leaves an impression on the critters it hits!
Oh... and here's a "varmint" kill with the .375... coyote vs. 260 Accubond:
Here's a 200+ pound Blacktail buck vs. 260 Accubond. This deer dropped so dead to a lung shot... that it hit the ground and didn't even tip over. No, I didn't poach it... date on the camera was messed up. Oh, and that grey patch behind the shoulder is the exit... didn't do a thing to the hide... but the lungs/heart looked like 5-gallons of raspberry jam.
Good post.... I hope some of the folks who read it get what has been said several times here about the 375 H&H.
-BCB
It don't take long to spot a cull.........
If you don't mind... this will become a part of my daily language. Freakin' hillarious... even funnier that 99 out of 100 folks will have no clue what you're talking about.
Originally Posted By: xtrempredhntr Since alot of people don't load, this is a big factor. Now you do hear of them using the 375 H&H (why no vote for the 375 Ruger?) in Africa for varmints, but not so much here (not saying there are not a few). Where as I bet you can find a few more people around that shoot varmints with thier 06. I think that the main reason they use the 375 in Africa for varmints is mainly cause thats what they have avilable to them, and you never know what might come up on you.
It still cracks me up how many folks think the .375 has hellacious recoil... and have never shot one. Most folks don't think twice about a mediocre load out of their 12 gauge... and that is the recoil equivilent to the .375 running 260s. I can't think of a better elk/moose/bear rifle than the .375... I've killed with one... and it definately leaves an impression on the critters it hits!
Oh... and here's a "varmint" kill with the .375... coyote vs. 260 Accubond:
Here's a 200+ pound Blacktail buck vs. 260 Accubond. This deer dropped so dead to a lung shot... that it hit the ground and didn't even tip over. No, I didn't poach it... date on the camera was messed up. Oh, and that grey patch behind the shoulder is the exit... didn't do a thing to the hide... but the lungs/heart looked like 5-gallons of raspberry jam.
Good post.... I hope some of the folks who read it get what has been said several times here about the 375 H&H.
-BCB
xtrempredhntr
New member
I never said that it couldn't be done or never was done, but doubt very little that there a as many people taking a 375 on a dedicated varmint hunt compared to taking a 30-06 or 308. As far as recoil goes, there are a lot of people out there that cant take the recoil of a 12 guage load and still shoot accurately. I have never said that the 375 was lacking in the ways it could be used, but don't think that MOST people will ever use it for anything smaller then elk or black bear. ALL things considered, don't think it will be as used as much as the 30-06 or 308. But, who knows things could change in the future....oh, was wondering what gun that 375 is in? What velocities are you getting with the 260 grainers? Those are some good looking animals there...really good size body on that deer.
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quarterbored
New member
That's a Rem. 700 XCR with the 26" pipe... I get about 2850 with 76 grains of RE-15. The 260 Accubond has a BC of .475... I've hammered milk jugs out to 600+ yards with relitive ease... and killed several coyotes in the 300-400 range with it. Folks think that it "falls out of the sky"... but that simply ain't true... it shoots as flat as a .270 with 150's or a '06 with 180s... and is packing some stomp when it gets there. As for the recoil... if you can't shoot a 12 guage load accurately... you ain't shooting an '06 accurately either... you'd be much better served with a 7/08 or something like that.
Fact is... the .30-06 is a great round... along with the .270, 7mm Rem, and .338 Winny. They are surely deserving of a "cabinate" appointment. BUT, we're talking about "The KING"... it has to handle it all... and handle it well. It ain't about popularity... it ain't about matches... it's about clobbering every animal known to man, in every situation. For that... the .375 reigns supreme.
Whether it's Cape Buffalo in the thick stuff, Impala on the sveldt, a 400+ yard poke on a big Colorado Bull Elk, Black Bears over bait, Grizzly on a costal Alaska stream, Pronghorn in Wyoming, Moose in BC, etc. The .30-06 can do a lot of that... but it can't do all of it with the clout the .375 can. The Three-Seven-Five's reputation in Africa is fully equal to that of the '06 here in America. Their runs as sporting cartridges are nearly equal in longevity... but the "King" of Africa can certainly rule the Americas... can't say the same for the converse.
Fact is... the .30-06 is a great round... along with the .270, 7mm Rem, and .338 Winny. They are surely deserving of a "cabinate" appointment. BUT, we're talking about "The KING"... it has to handle it all... and handle it well. It ain't about popularity... it ain't about matches... it's about clobbering every animal known to man, in every situation. For that... the .375 reigns supreme.
Whether it's Cape Buffalo in the thick stuff, Impala on the sveldt, a 400+ yard poke on a big Colorado Bull Elk, Black Bears over bait, Grizzly on a costal Alaska stream, Pronghorn in Wyoming, Moose in BC, etc. The .30-06 can do a lot of that... but it can't do all of it with the clout the .375 can. The Three-Seven-Five's reputation in Africa is fully equal to that of the '06 here in America. Their runs as sporting cartridges are nearly equal in longevity... but the "King" of Africa can certainly rule the Americas... can't say the same for the converse.
Bayou City Boy
New member
Originally Posted By: quarterboredThat's a Rem. 700 XCR with the 26" pipe... I get about 2850 with 76 grains of RE-15. The 260 Accubond has a BC of .475... I've hammered milk jugs out to 600+ yards with relitive ease... and killed several coyotes in the 300-400 range with it. Folks think that it "falls out of the sky"... but that simply ain't true... it shoots as flat as a .270 with 150's or a '06 with 180s... and is packing some stomp when it gets there. As for the recoil... if you can't shoot a 12 guage load accurately... you ain't shooting an '06 accurately either... you'd be much better served with a 7/08 or something like that.
Fact is... the .30-06 is a great round... along with the .270, 7mm Rem, and .338 Winny. They are surely deserving of a "cabinate" appointment. BUT, we're talking about "The KING"... it has to handle it all... and handle it well. It ain't about popularity... it ain't about matches... it's about clobbering every animal known to man, in every situation. For that... the .375 reigns supreme.
Whether it's Cape Buffalo in the thick stuff, Impala on the sveldt, a 400+ yard poke on a big Colorado Bull Elk, Black Bears over bait, Grizzly on a costal Alaska stream, Pronghorn in Wyoming, Moose in BC, etc. The .30-06 can do a lot of that... but it can't do all of it with the clout the .375 can. The Three-Seven-Five's reputation in Africa is fully equal to that of the '06 here in America. There runs as sporting cartridges are nearly equal in longevity... but the "King" of Africa can certainly rule the Americas... can't say the same for the converse.
Again a very good post.
You can use a 375 for a lot of things that you can't use any of the more "conventional" cartidges for.....on just about any continent.
As I said earlier, if I had to cull (an often used very descriptive suthern' term used here just for you quarterbored
) to just one rifle, the 375 H&H would be the likely choice...
-BCB
Fact is... the .30-06 is a great round... along with the .270, 7mm Rem, and .338 Winny. They are surely deserving of a "cabinate" appointment. BUT, we're talking about "The KING"... it has to handle it all... and handle it well. It ain't about popularity... it ain't about matches... it's about clobbering every animal known to man, in every situation. For that... the .375 reigns supreme.
Whether it's Cape Buffalo in the thick stuff, Impala on the sveldt, a 400+ yard poke on a big Colorado Bull Elk, Black Bears over bait, Grizzly on a costal Alaska stream, Pronghorn in Wyoming, Moose in BC, etc. The .30-06 can do a lot of that... but it can't do all of it with the clout the .375 can. The Three-Seven-Five's reputation in Africa is fully equal to that of the '06 here in America. There runs as sporting cartridges are nearly equal in longevity... but the "King" of Africa can certainly rule the Americas... can't say the same for the converse.
Again a very good post.
You can use a 375 for a lot of things that you can't use any of the more "conventional" cartidges for.....on just about any continent.
As I said earlier, if I had to cull (an often used very descriptive suthern' term used here just for you quarterbored
-BCB
xtrempredhntr
New member
You get the "kick" at the level of a 12 gauge (heavy field load) from the 06 when loaded almost to the max. If you load it down, you get the kick from a 243. At that level, a kid could learn on it as well.
I am in no way trying to stir anything up, but why didn't you choose the 375 UM or 375 Ruger? The "claims" are that they (the Ruger and not the UM) can get more velocity with a shorter barrel. I have not shot one of these, so its is one of those "they claim" deals. Also, was wondering why you did not choose something in the .416? It also can do it all with authority. If loaded down, can get manageable recoil. Just wonder where the limit is on "bigger is better"?
I understand that I won't change your mind, and ya'll probably won't change mine, just want to see other peoples ideas. Like I have stated before, don't think everyone will EVER decide on a true king, but its fun hearing everyones thoughts. It is really funny when people start getting upset and mad about these goofy internet discussions, because they can not sway everyone to thier way of thinking. Now I admit, if it turns to politics, I can get pretty riled up myself...that is why I try and stay out of the "Painful Truth" forum...lol
I am in no way trying to stir anything up, but why didn't you choose the 375 UM or 375 Ruger? The "claims" are that they (the Ruger and not the UM) can get more velocity with a shorter barrel. I have not shot one of these, so its is one of those "they claim" deals. Also, was wondering why you did not choose something in the .416? It also can do it all with authority. If loaded down, can get manageable recoil. Just wonder where the limit is on "bigger is better"?
I understand that I won't change your mind, and ya'll probably won't change mine, just want to see other peoples ideas. Like I have stated before, don't think everyone will EVER decide on a true king, but its fun hearing everyones thoughts. It is really funny when people start getting upset and mad about these goofy internet discussions, because they can not sway everyone to thier way of thinking. Now I admit, if it turns to politics, I can get pretty riled up myself...that is why I try and stay out of the "Painful Truth" forum...lol
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quarterbored
New member
The RUM and Ruger are in their infancy... yet to be proven... the .375 has been there, done that, and has the t-shirt to prove it. Give those two another 80 years... and we'll see who's the survivor. By the same rationale...the .300WSM or .300 SAUM should knock the 30-06 off its perch... don't see that happening either. I can (and have) loaded my .375 down to 2400 fps with the 235 Speer... and recoil is about that of a .308... but it sure hits harder.
The .416s can't come close to matching the .375 from a trajectory standpoint... they're truly a heavy/dangerous game proposition. Much the same way the '06 runs out of punch for the big beasties... the 416s/458s run out of gas when the range gets over about 250. The .375 has neither of those issues... it has enough thump to handle all that walks... and enough gas to reach out and touch stuff.
There truly is no discussion about the "King"... ask most folks in the know what 1 rifle they'd chose to hunt ALL GAME ON THE PLANET... and I bet the overwhelming answer would be .375 H&H.
The .416s can't come close to matching the .375 from a trajectory standpoint... they're truly a heavy/dangerous game proposition. Much the same way the '06 runs out of punch for the big beasties... the 416s/458s run out of gas when the range gets over about 250. The .375 has neither of those issues... it has enough thump to handle all that walks... and enough gas to reach out and touch stuff.
There truly is no discussion about the "King"... ask most folks in the know what 1 rifle they'd chose to hunt ALL GAME ON THE PLANET... and I bet the overwhelming answer would be .375 H&H.
xtrempredhntr
New member
Just wondering how the 416 would "run out of gas" when you can get the barnes 350 gr with a BC of .521. Pushing that out of a 416 Rigby or Remington at 2650-2700fps...that sounds like a fairly formidable long range cartrige (600-700yards...I do realized that is not LONG range, but still alot farther then what is the norm). The trajectories look almost to be the same, with the 375 to have an few inches on the 416 at 500.
I can see why you would would choose the 375. I am not just being difficult, but if I were going to go with the idea of what can kill anything in the world, I might have to go with the 416 Rigby. Just for the fact, if I had to put my life on the line with just one gun, I would go with the "bigger is better" theory...LOL I know it sounds like I am contradicting myself, but if that was all I was looking at (the killing of all land walking animals on the planet) then I would rather have a bigger hole in the animal and still be able to reach out there.
I kind of looked at the original post as "king" to the average Joe and the range of animals that most people would hunt, ease of use...etc. I guess the biggest thing is how you look at the idea of "king".
I can see why you would would choose the 375. I am not just being difficult, but if I were going to go with the idea of what can kill anything in the world, I might have to go with the 416 Rigby. Just for the fact, if I had to put my life on the line with just one gun, I would go with the "bigger is better" theory...LOL I know it sounds like I am contradicting myself, but if that was all I was looking at (the killing of all land walking animals on the planet) then I would rather have a bigger hole in the animal and still be able to reach out there.
I kind of looked at the original post as "king" to the average Joe and the range of animals that most people would hunt, ease of use...etc. I guess the biggest thing is how you look at the idea of "king".
quarterbored
New member
You need to check your data... Barnes website lists the 350 TSX at a .345 BC and a top velocity of 2627... and it takes 83.5 grains of Varget to get it there... that don't seem like a quality 400+ yard load to me.
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xtrempredhntr
New member
Sorry, I mixed up the bullet I was looking at...its actually .357 BC. So, you were closer...LOL There is a load that shows the 350gr on loaddata.com that is being pushed 2,834 with IMR-4350. Don't know how much I would trust that one, but am pretty sure you could get 2650, so we will go with that. Still with that at 500 yds with a 200 yd zero, the drop is about 59 in. only 6 inches lower then the 260gr out of the .375. Thats not all that bad. Even at 2600 in the 416 you only lose 8 in to the .375.