The king period

Dude... stick to your '06

It's .345... take a look at their web site.

The .375 running 260s at 2800 is 15" flatter at 500 yards using a 200 yard zero than the .416 running a 350 at 2650(... and the .375 is only +1.75" @100 vs. the .416 at +2.5" @100). PLUS... at 5 bills the .375 actually hits harder (2150 fpe vs. 1950 fpe). Neither are a "long range caliber"... but the .375 acts like one much better than any other dangerous game cartridge I can think of.

Keep making my point for me... I appreciate it.
 
Check it out .357 http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/
and if you really want to get picky...its a shade under 14 inches more drop when running the 260 at 2800. I had thought that you posted your 260's running at 2600 fps, but it still not all that bad. I would still pick the .416 when going to pick something that would kill anything on the planet round beacuse of the extra pucnh it delivers at closer ranges on dangerous game in a life or death situation. Not saying your wrong, just something I would pick. Don't get all defensive and bent out of shape. Just a discussion.
 
Okay... 2 votes for the .375 H&H as the greatest rifle cartridge ever devised.

I'm guessing it'll unseat the 30-06 any day now.
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Not.
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I pulled the following info from Chuck Hawkes recoil tables. I admit I have not shot a 375. I have shot a 35 whelen. I know its not the same as a 375. I consider the whelen to have a hearty recoil. It is noticeably heavier than a 30-06. I have shot several 12 gauges including 3.5" magnums. I find the recoil in 12 gauges to be much lighter than a 30-06. Here is a table just to provide numbers. I realize that is all they are is number. What really matters is perceived recoil. If you perceive a 375 to have recoil the same as a 12 gauge I beleive you. I am saying I will probably not have the same perception.

rifle weight recoil engy recoil vlcty
30-06 Spfd. (150 at 2910) 8.0 17.6 11.9
30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700) 8.0 20.3 12.8
35 Whelen (200 at 2675) 8.0 22.6 13.5
375 H&H Mag. (270 at 2690)9.0 36.1 16.1
http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm









 
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Originally Posted By: dan newberryOkay... 2 votes for the .375 H&H as the greatest rifle cartridge ever devised.

I'm guessing it'll unseat the 30-06 any day now.
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Not.
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There's more toilet paper than $1 bills... does that mean we should wipe our azzes with singles? The .375 will always wipe its azz with the .30'06... so I guess the comparison is valid....
 
The vast majority of people will never be able to hunt anything bigger than a whitetail, or maybe a black bear /elk. That said, wouldn't the .375's and .416's and such be a bit hard on pelts, and squirrels, and rabbits and such ?? LOL!!! I'm just saying........

I will qualify this by saying I would consider the "King" to be able to "adequately" handle ALL of the average shooter's needs.
 
Here's a pretty good article by someone who regularly shoots large caliber rifles.

Under the pic of various bullets he talks a bit about 375 H&H recoil - coming again from someone who has actually shot one...

Granted....its just another opinion, but at least its coming from an individual who definitely has the T-shirt and hasn't just formed an opinion on chest puffing based on something read in a magazine article or seen in a chart...

http://www.realguns.com/archives/129.htm

Jack O'Connor - the shooting man's champion of the 270 Winchester - wrote in his book The Hunting Rifle back around the middle of the 20 Century that, "The world's most useful cartridge is no ultra-modern super-duper fresh from the ballistic designer's drawing board written up by swooning gun editors and balyhooed with four-color ads. Instead, it is as cartridges go, an old-timer born over a half century ago in a cluttered low pressure shop in London's West End. The cartridge is the 375 Magnum."

One of the things O'Connor liked about the 270 Winchester was its performance in comparison to its low recoil. I wonder if he'd have liked the 375 H&H so much if its recoil was excessive for what it did.

-BCB
 
I have shot a 375 H&H, my friend had a 700 Remington in that chambering. We shot it off the bench, and prone, with some handloads and factory rounds he had.

I was surprised that it was not at all hard on the shoulder, even though the barrel was pretty thin. And in spite of that thin barrel, the totally stock rifle shot well. I think the 375 H&H is pretty easy to please with the load recipes. We even shot the rifle at 300 yards (prone, off bags) and it literally shot MOA and under at that range with a couple different bullet weights.

If I wanted a big bore hunting rifle, I'd definitely consider a 375 H&H, but I'd probably want it in a Ruger number 1 or something nice like that.

But I think that the 30-06 just covers more "niches" than any other cartridge out there. If the .308 win had come first, it might be number one in worldwide sales.

What we need to realize is that there are valid, sensible reasons why so many folks continue to buy the 30-06. Put simply, it works. If it didn't work as well as it does, it would have fallen out of favor decades ago...

Most of us have favorite cartridges that we can list a litany of reasons for why we like them. But we're rifle aficionados. For folks who just want something that works, they'll choose the 30-06 over and over again.

It's the same thing with the .357 Magnum. Is it the most powerful handgun cartridge? No. Will it kill an elephan t? I wouldn't want to try it. But the .357 is well known, and trusted, and the phrase "three fifty seven magnum" just rolls off the tongue of the average schmo. That's another cartridge that will probably never die.

If power is what we're considering as the qualifying factor as "king," the H&H is of course out as well.

I think the "king" should be elected as the cartridge that meets the needs of most folks looking for a rifle. The 30-06 has been doing that for more than 100 years, and will likely continue to do so.

It's kind of like Richard Petty. Many will bash him, and make excuses for all of his nascar victories... and carry on and on about why Earnardt was a better driver... but the truth is Petty has won over 200 races, and will continue to be the "King." Like it lump it.
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Dan
 
In the long run, no one cartridge fills all needs. One man's king is another man's serf.

What gets factually lost in these proverbial internet "What I own is best" debates is when someone with experience makes a statement and then all those who have no experience at all try to make it sound like it is contrived with tables and maybe even magazine articles possibly written by others without experience.

Believe it or not, that happens frequently even with gun scribes. Not all have real life experience about what they write about. One scribe gets assigned to write an article on Subject X. He has no experience with Subject X so he retrieves filed articles written by other scribes on Subject X and repeats what others have already said. Add a few pics taken when an article on Subject Y was written to the story, and mis-information moves one step closer to becoming fact for all to repeat.... Even if no one involved in the chain has ever seen or experienced Subject X in real life.

It results in mis-information like "All 17's foul badly" and "The 220 Swift is hard on barrels". And then, if repeated enough, these rumors become complete "facts".

The internet allows this to happen quickly. One person here reads a post by someone who has never shot a 375 H&H but gathers "information" about how it kicks too much from a chart. He goes to another forum and repeats that misinformation, complete with "data", and it goes on and on. And in the process, experience gets lost and inexperience becomes fact.

For all those who fear the "mighty" 375 H&H, shoot one and you'll still be able to move about without difficulty. It's been around for years for a reason.... Just like the 30-06 has been around for years for a reason. They both fill different niches extremely well.

In fact, one of these cartridges can fill both niches quite nicely without killing on both ends....

-BCB
 
uuugh...
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I do find myself in agreement with what you say about how internet rumors morph into facts in record time.

As to experience speaking, on a worldwide level, the experiences of the "masses" would seem to indicate the 30-06 works very well, as it continues to be the most popular choice in centerfire hunting rifles. Others following closely behind are the .270 win, the .308 win, and the .243 win. These are in the top five of every top ten list you find. I don't think RCBS is posting a top ten list anymore (if they are I can't find it)... but I would think that the 30-06 is still on top of that popularity list (loading die sales).

Dan
 
By "Masses"... you mean in the US... not the world. I bet the 6.5/55 is much more popular in the Scandinavian countrys than the '06... and they hunt pretty big stuff. What about Austrailia... or Africa... or South America? Pretty easy to be short sited and assume that just because it's the most popular here... then it has to be the most popular elsewhere. Heck.... Dodd and Pelosi were chosen by the "masses"... does that make them the best choice... me thinks not.

At the end of the day... you're probably right... the 30-06 is "King" in North America... though it ain't my choice personally. But... like I said before... the .375 is the "King" of Africa... and that trumps the American "King" pretty handily. We're not talking about the "Average Joe's King"... we're talking about the "King"... and the .375 has filled that roll for pert'near 100 years now... LONG LIVE THE KING.
 
Dan:

In terms of what you are saying, I agree totally. Again, my statements were not designed to compare what popularity lists, die sales, or anything else presented here, might say about what should be every man's "king".

My only point is don't take inexperience about one cartridge and use that inexperience to attempt to make valid arguments about one you are familiar with. That is what this thread morphed into concerning the 375 H&H. And I am not speaking to you when I say that...

In comparison to other cartridges used for the same purpose - killing large and dangerous game - the 375 H&H is a pussycat in terms of recoil. And it is versatile enough to also perform extremely well in performing other tasks that are lesser in stature than it's original intended purpose - again, that of effectively killing large dangerous animals.

About 20 years ago I was "kicked" by a friend's new rifle like I had never been kicked before or since. It was chambered in 264 Win Mag housed in a poorly designed custom stock.

Even though that was experience for me, I'm not going to use it to say that the 264 Win Mag is the worst kicking cartridge in the world. First off, I own a 264 Win Mag, and it kicks, but not near as bad as my friend's rifle did. And I have shot my 416 Taylor and my 458 Win Mag enough to know what truly makes my head hurt at the end of the day. That has never happened to me with a 30-06, a 375 H&H Mag, or a 264 Win Mag.

With that, I'm out of here.... may the king, whoever he is, reign until the serfs take him out...

-BCB
 
Originally Posted By: Bayou City BoyIn the long run, no one cartridge fills all needs. One man's king is another man's serf.

What gets factually lost in these proverbial internet "What I own is best" debates is when someone with experience makes a statement and then all those who have no experience at all try to make it sound like it is contrived with tables and maybe even magazine articles possibly written by others without experience.

Believe it or not, that happens frequently even with gun scribes. Not all have real life experience about what they write about. One scribe gets assigned to write an article on Subject X. He has no experience with Subject X so he retrieves filed articles written by other scribes on Subject X and repeats what others have already said. Add a few pics taken when an article on Subject Y was written to the story, and mis-information moves one step closer to becoming fact for all to repeat.... Even if no one involved in the chain has ever seen or experienced Subject X in real life.

It results in mis-information like "All 17's foul badly" and "The 220 Swift is hard on barrels". And then, if repeated enough, these rumors become complete "facts".



The internet allows this to happen quickly. One person here reads a post by someone who has never shot a 375 H&H but gathers "information" about how it kicks too much from a chart. He goes to another forum and repeats that misinformation, complete with "data", and it goes on and on. And in the process, experience gets lost and inexperience becomes fact.

For all those who fear the "mighty" 375 H&H, shoot one and you'll still be able to move about without difficulty. It's been around for years for a reason.... Just like the 30-06 has been around for years for a reason. They both fill different niches extremely well.

In fact, one of these cartridges can fill both niches quite nicely without killing on both ends....

-BCB


I agree with what youre saying, but the recoil is still stouter than an '06. Its just physics man. More powder pushing a larger bullet will have a larger recoil. I dont care for a whole bunch of recoil. Thats all Im saying.
 
Sorry guys, got banished to Wisconsin and lost track of things. Just got my internet/cable hooked up this evening. I'll be here another month or so. Anyhoo.......

The 375 H&H is not one that recoils much in terms of it's sheer killing power. Much like the 35 Colonel (Whelen) IMO. I've found both to be inherently accurate cartridges also (They need to be in the right hands).

The smaller caliber 338 Win, by comparison, don't kill much different, but recoils much worse IME........
 
I'd like to apologize to both BCB and 2mughgun. BCB made no statements that offended myself. 2muchgun made statements aimed at someone else and I thought they were directed at myself. Sorry guys.
 
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