The Shooting in Oregon..

Originally Posted By: littledawgOriginally Posted By: Orneryolfart357Amazing how many times the story has changed. The driver of the Jeep that was freed released his video saying that the Rancher rushed the cops. That was not true by watching this video. The 18 year old girl in the truck said they were being riddled with bullets. With no audio its hard to tell what the Rancher was actually doing. Had he already been shot and reaching for the wound? So many unanswered questions. Why did the Cop jump out in front of the truck? Was he already shooting the windshield? We may never get the real story. Where are the body cam videos, Dash cam etc? It is what it is I guess.


They could have all the video in the world but people are still going to see what they want to see. This is like watching an NFL game on TV and expecting the ref's to see the same thing you do from ground level.

Exactly.. this is one where I lean toward the cops for the reasons expressed by others here, they were dealing with people who had been talking the talk about how they were prepared to die, as a cop you are not going to be in much of a frame of mind to hold back and have it cost you your life.

These people set the stage for what happened.
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSIt is bery hard to tell without sound but the way his hands drops to the one side which is different than the side we have seen him carry in pictures it looks as if he was hit and then the guy comes from behind and finishes him. Looks like murder but hard to be 100% sure as of now.

The feds are counting on the fact that it's hard to tell. Then their narrative is the only one that counts. They made sure ahead of time that the only videos that were taken was their drone, hundreds of feet away.
 
If there is a wound on his left side where he was reaching towards, that will raise some eyebrows. And we already know that there were more shots reported fired than what the FBI let out earlier.
 
Originally Posted By: LongnkrnchOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSIt is bery hard to tell without sound but the way his hands drops to the one side which is different than the side we have seen him carry in pictures it looks as if he was hit and then the guy comes from behind and finishes him. Looks like murder but hard to be 100% sure as of now.

The feds are counting on the fact that it's hard to tell. Then their narrative is the only one that counts. They made sure ahead of time that the only videos that were taken was their drone, hundreds of feet away.

I'm sure of that!
 
I have watch the media investigation about this all day...wait... nope not a word. I do know that Trump was not at the debate last night.Remember the poor fellow who was shot in the street so many times. How many times per hour did that play.
I do not think good judgement was used by the protesters. Instead of arming themselves way out in the sticks maybe they would have had better results if they had gone to town unarmed and burned it down.
I guess it will all be more clear when they release the dash cam video.
Maybe he did mean to harm law enforcement and just missed the three trucks in the roadblock.Maybe he meant to ram the roadblock and just missed.Maybe all this was just his desire to commit suicide by cop as reported.
After all you have to get tough with this kind of stuff. Remember the swift action taken when sailors and boats were taken. This administration don't put up with foolishness.
 
Kinda funny how that works a bunch of white folk in the middle of nowhere take a stand for what they think is right and people die it gets null to zero coverage. But worthless piece of [beeep] black guy gets killed by police the town riots and its all the new media cares about for a long time.... kinda makes you go hmmmmm.


Oh thats right I remember "black" lives matter.
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Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

....But, then again I stop and ask myself.. Why are they setting up road blocks, kicking the media out, and arresting people out in the woods in the snow. Is the occupation of a crap little building on a nature preserve really something the FBI needs to be there for? So what if they are there.
Let them sit out there and rail against the government in the snow in the middle of no where. Collecting them up and arresting them, for what? Is what they were doing really at the level of needing to arrest them all, set up road blocks, and deadly force?

If you think it is, then why didn't they do anything like that in ferguson, balitmore, and so on..
They let the ghetto thugs burn the streets and loot and riot.. But a handful of cowboys.. SHoot them.
Better question is why is it when libtards are in office, only ghetto thugs are allowed to protest and the rest are shot.

I posted the link to the video of the guy arrested for the DUI because I saw where this was going, I figured the FBI was going to escalate the situation and end it. They had to end this before more lunatics gravitated to this group.

A situation like this can't be left alone, for no other reason than civil disobedience can't be left alone lest it exponentially empower others to take the same approach.

That guy that got stopped and went off the deep end was an indicator of who this issue was attracting to the "cause" Escalate it to where a few hundred people were there and it would have been like a lynch mob, their numbers would have made them bolder, they'd have gotten bored with sitting on a nothing sanctuary nobody cared about, and they'd have cooked up a bigger bolder idea that would have gotten a lot of people killed.

When that nut job got picked up running to the fight to be part of protecting Bundy the FBI needed to act fast. We also saw videos of what had been put out just prior where they were putting out the call for patriots with guns to join them, and kill anyone who tries to stop you.

Quite frankly killing the logical one who had said he wasn't going to be taken alive might have saved a lot of the others, call it a wake up call, we are done with this, give yourself up. Quite a few of the others have allowed themselves to be taken, they gave themselves up, I'm betting they've talked a big game about how they would die first.

These guys had the ability to draw into and incite guys who are unhinged, they just aren't right. It could not be left alone.

added
This takeover and standoff had no end game, it was destined to end badly.
 
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Originally Posted By: woodguruOriginally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

....But, then again I stop and ask myself.. Why are they setting up road blocks, kicking the media out, and arresting people out in the woods in the snow. Is the occupation of a crap little building on a nature preserve really something the FBI needs to be there for? So what if they are there.
Let them sit out there and rail against the government in the snow in the middle of no where. Collecting them up and arresting them, for what? Is what they were doing really at the level of needing to arrest them all, set up road blocks, and deadly force?

If you think it is, then why didn't they do anything like that in ferguson, balitmore, and so on..
They let the ghetto thugs burn the streets and loot and riot.. But a handful of cowboys.. SHoot them.
Better question is why is it when libtards are in office, only ghetto thugs are allowed to protest and the rest are shot.


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This takeover and standoff had no end game, it was destined to end badly.

I agree with you on this wood, that with the little number of supporters that they had, I didn't see any good outcome.
 
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ

But, then again I stop and ask myself.. Why are they setting up road blocks, kicking the media out, and arresting people out in the woods in the snow.

Because they were going to attempt a hot stop on people that have said they were armed and planning on a shootout, wouldn't be taken alive etc. So you do everything you can to move those not involved out of harms way.[/color]


Is the occupation of a crap little building on a nature preserve really something the FBI needs to be there for? So what if they are there.

Because it's a federal installation, federal crime, federal felony, so federal agents involved.

Let them sit out there and rail against the government in the snow in the middle of no where. Collecting them up and arresting them, for what? Is what they were doing really at the level of needing to arrest them all, set up road blocks, and deadly force?

As above. What didn't the fed's do? Charge in and instigate a massive shootout. What did they do, wait for them to leave and try to take them in small groups where there are lower odds of someone being hurt. They also obviously aren't just rounding up the people involved and killing them.

Did they deserve to die because they were wearing white socks? Of course not! How dare LE murder those people for wearing white socks!

Causation and correlation.

Or did they attempt an arrest and the drivers actions escalate the use of force to lethal? Gee, that's kind of what it looks like. If they decided to just kill those involved all conspiracy like, why video at all? Why just 1? Why not go in the dark of night, blow the place, blame it on the protestors? Or why not off them in any one a billion other ways, en masse, that is less public than a high speed chase and shooting?

That's the most irritating thing when people armchair something. He wasn't 'murdered' because he was jay walking. He was contacted because he was jay walking, he was shot because he then pulled a knife. etc etc etc 1 has nothing to do with the other, except they were close together in time and location.

If you think it is, then why didn't they do anything like that in ferguson, balitmore, and so on..
They let the ghetto thugs burn the streets and loot and riot.. But a handful of cowboys.. SHoot them.
Better question is why is it when libtards are in office, only ghetto thugs are allowed to protest and the rest are shot.

Ferguson isn't federal, it's local. Local LE only unless requested and granted, which didn't happen. Instead it was "we're going to let you burn down the city!" It was the local politicians that decided to let balitimore and ferguson and eveywhere else burn in support of dead criminals instead of telling the savages to act like adults.

Once you have a group that arms themselves and walks into a building saying they will kill and or die if anyone tries to come in, you're dealing with things a little differently than a bunch of hood rats walking down the street. You're no longer 'peaceably assembling' from the very start.




Notes.
 
Originally Posted By: Stu Farishthis video wasn't a drone, it was an FBI plane. they've made no secret about that.



Ok Over on Oathkeepers they said drone. I had not heard plane.
 
I had to tow a media reporter everywhere with us in Afghanistan.. Why can't the FBI?

With this roadblock, and a "plane" in the air, why were they not wearing body cams?

The fergison and baltimore was a city thing, but the feds were sent in. Look. They were there at the funneral, they were there making sure no ones civil rights were violated..

They didn't run into a preserve because they set up a road block and took them in small groups.

Staying in that "federal building" is a felony is a strech in my opinion, It's a shack. how much would it really cost to rebuild vs. what was done in MO, or MD?

The driver did try driving off. But, when i stop and think about how I am on a back road in the middle of no where, and stopped by Federal agents in swat gear.. I have the opinion that even if he would have gotten out of the truck when stopped the first time, they would have shot him then.
IMO the only way they can leave alive is to call in the sherrif and ride in his car with media.

But, hey whatever.. It's just another piece of kindling on the pile, and that pile seems to feel like it's getting really big, and things keep heating up.
 
A person with a solid surrounding and lots of help is greatly more likely to fight and force a bad ending than someone who is placed in a situation where odds of winning less. That person is more likely to stop and give up with no one being injured. Give someone a chance to run, they'll run. Take that chance away, they'll stay in place. In this instance you have a blocked road with deep snow on either side. So the driver can do 1 of only 3 things.

1. Stop.
2. Try to ram through the roadblock
3. What he did, try to go around it.

Strategically the block was in a good location, with the snow on either side the vehicle is pretty much going to stop no matter what.

After the vehicle is stopped they occupants will either

1. Give up (right thing to do and what it appears the occupants did)
2. Flee into the woods (which is why you would have people in the woods)
3. Other (includes violence). Which is what the driver did. What he did, can't tell from the video.

Those remaining in the vehicle will either.

1. Obey commands
2. Not (flashbangs and removal)
3. Other


Had the vehicle and it's occupants taken 1, 1, and 1, odds are there would be a different outcome. Instead it was 3, 3 and either 2 or 3, not sure what happened at the end. But, dead guy.
 
everywhere I've seen has said "taken from an FBI plane"

read the description, plane or drone it appears to have been taken & released by the FBI

 
as for a felony, I think any time you posses a gun during the commission of a crime that pretty much makes it a felony.

threatening to use deadly force is as illegal as actually using deadly force when it's not justified. most likely a felony.

getting all your friends with guns to take on federal law enforcement agencies, think you're racking up quite a few felonies.

again, a peaceful, unarmed sit in demonstration is one thing. this wasn't that.
 
It doesn't matter if it's a tarpaper shack or the whitehouse. Well it does, obviously, but fed property is fed property. I steal gum from kmart, it's a misdemeanor. I do it on base, it's a whole lot more.

Beyond that jurisdiction is jurisdiction. Again, using the base. Their jurisdiction, and mine (when I had it) ended on either side of that gate unless the other side requested assistance. It's in my state, in my county, and in my city, and it's not mine to deal with /end story.

'Sending' in the feds for civil matters is a different story than the FBI walking into Baltimore and taking over.
 
Let's look at this from the start. Did a bunch of drunk guys get together and decide to hold a building hostage for no good reason. Don't think so. They must have had a concrete reason for doing what they did only after getting screwed by the government. While I don't agree with their methods of resentment towards the government can we doubt they had a legitimate beef? I don't think the ranchers were trying to run a scam but were rather protesting the corruption of our government and we all know without a doubt our government is as corrupt as they come. Did Hillary's deal with the Russians and mining come into play......I'd say it was first and foremost the main reason for this whole scenario. We know without a doubt how crooked and corrupt Hillary is with support from our government and to pull off what she had planned would require great support and/or collusion from the higher ups in government. IMO the man was straight out murdered and that and possibly more was the plan from the getgo. One thing I can guarantee is that we will never hear the truth of this murder as I'm sure the spin machine is running at high revs. Letting our government run the investigation is kinda like letting a bank robber be his own judge. I'd love to see an outside investigation of this entire deal including the involvement of Hillary and the Russian mining and the Clinton Foundation but that will never happen. Just my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it.
 
Originally Posted By: TnslimLet's look at this from the start. Did a bunch of drunk guys get together and decide to hold a building hostage for no good reason. Don't think so. They must have had a concrete reason for doing what they did only after getting screwed by the government. While I don't agree with their methods of resentment towards the government can we doubt they had a legitimate beef? I don't think the ranchers were trying to run a scam but were rather protesting the corruption of our government and we all know without a doubt our government is as corrupt as they come. Did Hillary's deal with the Russians and mining come into play......I'd say it was first and foremost the main reason for this whole scenario. We know without a doubt how crooked and corrupt Hillary is with support from our government and to pull off what she had planned would require great support and/or collusion from the higher ups in government. IMO the man was straight out murdered and that and possibly more was the plan from the getgo. One thing I can guarantee is that we will never hear the truth of this murder as I'm sure the spin machine is running at high revs. Letting our government run the investigation is kinda like letting a bank robber be his own judge. I'd love to see an outside investigation of this entire deal including the involvement of Hillary and the Russian mining and the Clinton Foundation but that will never happen. Just my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it.

This ^^^^^^^^^
 
doesn't even matter what their gripe was or how legitimate. how they went about this is what set the path for how it could end.
 
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