The Spirit of the .204

What about a .223 WSSM shooting 4600 fps with 40 grn's? Thats fairly flat?
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But I admit, the Whizzer isnt as accurate as my .204.
 
Originally Posted By: EDP

I'm not arguing, just want to know were you are getting your data that the 204 shoots flatter than a 22-250?



Don't take my word for it, run the numbers on any ballistics program you have and you'll see.

I'm cyber-stupid and wouldn't know how to use one if I had one, but my buddy has Quick Load. We looked at several 204 to 22/250 and 220 Swift combos and the 204 was the clear winner out to 400.
A friend over in Montana did the same thing on his program and came up with similar results.
 
Tripod, I agree with some of your ballistics information here, I however don't agree with your statement that says that they far exceed the .204. First and foremost, it of course becomes complicated when we start talking about all of the possible bullet/powder combinations. I do all of my personal shooting with the 32gr sierra. But if you know who Greg Tannel is, (he is THE expert of the .20 cals), he has published 4,400 fps with a 33gr V-max, sub 1/4" groups at 100yds. So my point is, if there is no budget/time limit, of course this stuff can be pushed to the limit. Here is the thing... to get your 4,337fps with your 22-250 AI, you are at 78,000 psi pressure, and max limit is 65,000. You are literally loading that case to the top with powder. Yes you are achieving the 4,337 with .8" groups, but at a HUGE price. For one, you probably won't be reloading those cases.. they are going to be cashed! Two, your throat and barrel are going to be burned out very quickly, and three, you are doing this with a benchrest quality gun. I am shooting consistent 1/4" groups at 100 yds at 4,150, I can reload my brass 5 or 6 times minimum, my throat and barrel will last forever, and the gun I am doing this with is a Remington model 700 with a light barrel (probably a 50 dollar barrel). See what I am saying? And if I really wanted to compete with the 22-250, I would load 39 grainers, move them at 4,100 fps AND do everything the 22-250 can do even out at long range! Sorry if I rambled.. haha.. this stuff is very interesting to me and fun.
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tripod3, with all due respect, 4590fps with a .223 AI is not happening... not on this planet anyways. Not even close. Max pressure is 55,000psi, and with the powder and amount specified on your chart, you are at 72,000psi... (i.e. you will prolly need a hammer to open your bolt after that shot). But even if you were doing this, even at 72,000psi you are going to be circa 4250fps. NOT 4590. I know that a ballistics program can be off a few fps, maybe even 50, but not 340fps off!! EVEN if you were shooting the 30gr bullet, you will still need 71,000psi to reach 4,400fps, and again that is crazy. A .204 can be loaded to fire a 33gr V-Max at 4,400 fps and still maintain sub 1/4" groups at 100, and still be under max pressure! Granted, this is Greg Tannel doing it (he is an expert) and he is using a rifle that costs 8 grand, but you get my point... almost anything is possible if you have the money and time.. but comparing apples to apples...
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Orneryoldfart, those WSSM's are awesome!! And yeah, I know you are getting 4,600.. no doubt. But like you said, you won't get the accuracy, and they certainly won't be as flat as the .204.
 
Originally Posted By: nitisIsnt there a berger 35 gr HP? What about the dogtown /midsouth 34 gr hp?

I shoot a 700 24" sps sporter weight. I get 5 shot cloverleafs with the hornady 45 gr softpoint at 3500 fps.

I went that route as I was looking for a 223 when I got too good of a deal to pass up on this one. However I have been less than impressed with this bullets performance on dogs I need something more explosive.

Most of teh dogs I have shot have been inside 100 yards and I am not getting the flop I want.

I am debating on which berger to try first the 35 or 40. If I am shooting dogs past 250+ I am taking my 25.06or 257 bee
Hello, new guy here. I have (2) .204s (Cooper 21 Varminter, Remington LVSF) and love 'em for varmints - mostly groundhogs. Always had a .22-250 around for coyotes but was considering using the .204s with the Hornady 45 grain SP's for 'em, although I'd never heard any first-hand experience. Now I might have an excuse to hang on to the '250.
Also, regarding the .204 in the wind: I've seen no appreciable difference between the .204 and .22-250 in it. BC of both are similar, and the faster .204 simply spends less time in the wind getting to its target. But that could be a whole new thread...
 
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Call it extreme as it may be, but there are plenty of palatable loads above what you are showing.
Beyond that even with factory loads the .22-250 is not that much slower and no question it has more authority when it gets there with only a fraction of an inch more drop.

Factory loads here,
http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/ballistics_charts.pdf


The .204 has a cool factor but has lost some popularity. One good reason is runners, another is lack of factory load choices which has not changed much in 5 years.

Bottom line comparing apples to apples the .22-250AI wins.
A 35 gr Berger Mef @ 4522 fps and .282 5 shot group. or if that's not fast enough there are faster loads listed with smaller groups.
 
"I can reload my brass 5 or 6 times minimum, my throat and barrel will last forever,"

5-6 times = average but not better that a.223.
Barrels maybe, throats last forever?Not so , BUT you'll never be accurate forever !

"When shooting within it's intended range, I have not had one run off yet."

How many would that be ?

The .204 is a nice round,but it's not magic.

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Wait though tripod, when I meant compare apples to apples, I meant that, if you are not going to have any limits as to how and what you can load into the 22-250, then the same has to apply to the .204 to be fair. If I want to compete with the 22-250, I can load a 39gr bullet for 4,300fps and now get the range that the 22-250 has,, and still shoot flatter. We could go on and on about this, but keep in mind that my original post was about how the .204 can do everything better than the .223. Getting outside of the .223 changes things. I don't have enough experience with the 22-250 to have experimented with many loads. IF you are going to do what you said in your last post and load a 35gr berger in 22-250 AI, and load it so hot that your barrel is melting to achieve the velocity, you would still be better off going with the .204, because at 42-4300fps the .204 is merely idling. Barrel will last forever. Plus reloading won't be an option for you loading them that hot (70,000psi+). But to each their own, the 22-250 is still cool no matter what. But so is the .204! And I believe that a big contributing factor to the .204 not being very popular is that the factory ammo in a factory rifle usually is not that accurate, UNLESS you get into the more expensive rifles. That's unfortunate. I got lucky and found a great powder/seating depth/primer/bullet combo that works great with my rifle and am loving it!
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Sometime when you are bored look up Greg Tannel (of Gre'tan Rifles) and see what he has done with the 20 calibers. It will blow your mind. He has (published) a 33gr V-max at 4,400fps, still under max pressure!! And CONSISTANTLY grouping at under 1/4" at 100. I saw the ballistics once on this load and trust me, there is nothing, I mean NOTHING flatter. One of these days I want to try my hand at loading 34 grainers.
 
Tim... First, the comment about reloading 5 or 6 times, I know that is average. BUT I was stating a comparison to how much the guy shooting at 75,000psi to achieve velocity would be reloading... which would be more than likely zero. Secondly, I didnt say I would be accurate forever.. of course, all mechanical things wear and eventually die. And thirdly, I have not owned my .204 but for about 2 years, so my guess is about 20 yotes down without so much as a twitch when I hit them. I have had a couple run, because I missed them completely due to wind or branches, etc. I personally believe that the extra 300fps over factory ammunition that I am getting is responsible for dropping them so hard. Again, that is just opinion. I have a friend, who is not the type to lie or exaggerate, who has over 200 dead yotes logged with his .204. He tells me that very few have ran off, no more than ones he has shot with his .243.
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Keep in mind guys I know I am probably overly biased towards the .204, I guess I am just trying to go to bat for the underdog. I think it deserves more credit than it gets. But I am also trying to be totally objective and fair about all of it.
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I need to rephrase this....Barrels and throats may last forever, BUT you'll never be accurate forever !
Throats will never last forever on any cal .
Not sure what I was thinkin .
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Originally Posted By: braddsnKeep in mind guys I know I am probably overly biased towards the .204, I guess I am just trying to go to bat for the underdog. I think it deserves more credit than it gets. But I am also trying to be totally objective and fair about all of it.
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You getting a sales cut from Ruger ?
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This coyote was hit 1" to the right of his nose and if the bullet would have stayed on a streight corse it would have exited below his passenger side ear out the back of his head.



Now my opinion would be that the 22-250 would have taken his head off?????? he was shot with a 32 grain bullet out of a 204 and was recovered a mere 480 yards away.

I would love to find a bullet that i could feel safe in useing and that i thought would do as well as my 250 and if someone can show me one ill for sure use it.
 
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Quote:42-4300fps the .204 is merely idling
Idling huh!

Quote:Barrel will last forever.
Nah! I wish it could.

They all can be loaded to the max. The real deal is the .22-250 has more authority.
The .204 is what it is and can be used successfully for coyotes.
I am the type of guy that doesn't like to make a 1/2 ton pickup into a 3/4 ton. Many times it passes and sometimes it fails.
 
Anyone looking for a tougher bullet for their 204 needs to go to James Calhoon's website. He is in Havre MT and makes bullets that work great for coyotes in 19,20 and 22 caliber. He has several products that he makes and sells. Check him out you will be glad you did,
 
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