This will start some crap.....

Originally Posted By: KlrDrvr
One of these days we should talk about the surveillance state, drones, license plate scanners and the uses to which the data they collect are being put. Now, THAT'S something to be scared/pi$$ed about.

This goes hand-in-hand with any gun control IMO. It's not about the GUNS, it's about the CONTROL. There can be no more compromise. Can't you see how much we've compromised already? They used the gangsters of the 20's and 30's to pass the 1934 NFA. The Kennedy assasinations and civil rights upheaval to pass the 1968 laws. These people wait for tragedies, hope for them, in order to have a reason to chip away at freedom and gain CONTROL.

People who would give up fundamental freedoms for a sense of security will eventually have neither. May not happen in your lifetime, I take it you don't have kids?
 
Originally Posted By: Justaguy987I can't find it real fast, but someones signature line on here says something to the affect of "My AR never made me shoot anyone."


JAG

I think you are thinking of my sig line.

Chupa
 
Originally Posted By: 204 AROriginally Posted By: KlrDrvr
One of these days we should talk about the surveillance state, drones, license plate scanners and the uses to which the data they collect are being put. Now, THAT'S something to be scared/pi$$ed about.

This goes hand-in-hand with any gun control IMO. It's not about the GUNS, it's about the CONTROL. There can be no more compromise. Can't you see how much we've compromised already? They used the gangsters of the 20's and 30's to pass the 1934 NFA. The Kennedy assasinations and civil rights upheaval to pass the 1968 laws. These people wait for tragedies, hope for them, in order to have a reason to chip away at freedom and gain CONTROL.

People who would give up fundamental freedoms for a sense of security will eventually have neither. May not happen in your lifetime, I take it you don't have kids?

Actually I do have kids. Who do you think "they" are? Why do "they" want CONTROL?
 
Originally Posted By: ChupathingyOriginally Posted By: Justaguy987I can't find it real fast, but someones signature line on here says something to the affect of "My AR never made me shoot anyone."


JAG

I think you are thinking of my sig line.

Chupa

That's it! Thanks!
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001919/

"They" are the politicians in general. A government always tries to gather more control onto itself. The office of president has gained more and more power over the years, almost every president has gathered more power than the previous ones. Some in small steps, some not so small. Look at all the departments and bureaucrats, it's unreal anymore how many salaries we pay. Unreal.

A lot of politicians fall into the antisocial disorder catagory. Antisocial does not mean they don't like to be around people, that's asocial. Antisocial is defined in the link above. It is a mental disorder that causes people to manipulate, exploit, and violate others' rights. How better to do that than through the workings of government. Do you think everyone that runs for office is doing it to "help" their country or fellow citizens? Hardly.

This is a great country, was founded on the best principals in the history of man. But, at some point, it will fade into history like all the great civilizations. It is slipping as we speak, has been for over 100 years. I would prefer that we stop the slide while we can. I personally don't want to have to be a part of the generation that has to stand up and push the "reset" button, but I will if needed.
 
So you have concluded that all politicians are sociopaths? If not all, which ones?

I could be mistaken, but don't sociopaths seek to manipulate others for the sociopath's person gratification? What's the connection between politicians as sociopaths and their personal gratification?

I recall Henry Kissinger once commenting that "power is the ultimate aphrodisiac" but I'd think there would be more to it.
 
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Did you read what I said? I clearly said "A lot of politicians" are antisocial. You made up the part about "all" and "sociopaths". No I don't think all, I think there are some who try to do the right thing. They usually don't make it too far though.
 
Oops you edited while I was typing a response. Which ones? Well I don't know them all, but in general I'd start with the career politicians, the ones who did nothing with their lives other than try to rule others. Ted Kennedy comes to mind. These people know nothing about anything useful, they could never build anything, never run a profitable business, never contribute anything meaningful to society. But they are arrogant enough to think they should tell the rest of us how to do those things.

I would honestly like to hear your reasons, why you think they do stuff you're worried about, like the surveilance, etc. If not for the reasons I stated, then why? How do you explain it if not for a mental disorder, and for the power and control?
 
Originally Posted By: KlrDrvrOriginally Posted By: skinney So, its the passing of the bill that is a joke, and SHOULD NEVER OF HAPPENED.


The passing of the AWB was not a joke. However, it you support popular governments you've got to accept that you're going to lose at times. In this case the short term loss - the AWB - was followed a long term win - the repeal and the brusing the supporters of it took make it very unlikely they'll try again.

Originally Posted By: skinney who cares, hilary had hilary care and her major push for the SCHIP program... they all have something to go on that goes against our constitution.

no need to elaborate, I catch your drift, our side has the worst of the worst compared to the left... no sir, you are mistaken, you do NOT know my side then, or who I affiliate with.


hmmm. Did I say that? I didn't think so.

Originally Posted By: skinney Opinions vary, I open my discussion by checking the box next to the conservative name in the polling booth.

That's your privilege but don't expect your opponents to negotiate in good faith it you won't. And it it's "all your way or the highway ..." might as well accept they'll to the same. Kind of a shame.



1. the AWB was too a joke, it was more than A LOT of BS, PW, and wasted tax dollars.

2. Originally Posted By: KlrDrvrhmmm. Did I say that? I didn't think so.
your own words that follow pretty much sum it up,
Originally Posted By: KlrDrvr
Many on our side are as, if not more, rigid as the worst on the antis.

3. NEWS FLASH, my opponents operating in good faith?
I'm the one that votes LEGALLY, I'm the one who provides proper documentation to do so, I'm the one who pays taxes every year, I'm the one who does everything I can to inform people! and your sitting here telling me, I should be expecting them to negotiate in good faith if I do... LOL, let me double take your info and make sure your really from the great state of Texas.
 
I'm pretty sure that back in the 1930's when the Germans came out with universal health care and gun control that somebody in the Jewish community, Gypsy community, etc. said "Don't worry, it will be okay."

Our founders didn't give us the 2nd Amendment so we could hunt. They gave it so we could stand against the excesses of government. They didn't expect the population to be limited to bows and arrows while the government had muskets.

I'm curious does anyone know how many people in Aurora were shot with the shotgun, how many with the AR, and how many with the pistol? Why all the focus on the AR? I think we all know the answer.

Finally, as far as I've heard the AR was a Smith and Wesson, M&P which is an auto-loading rifle requiring a trigger pull for each shot. We should not allow the press to corrupt the facts with "automatic weapons".
 
Anti-social personality disorder and sociopathy are the same things so, yes when you use one term you use both. A bit over 20 years ago the future speaker of the house and a group of colleagues concluded the best way to ensure continued access to power was not to attack their political opponents as people rather than attack their policies. This conversation has been a testimonial to their success.

The problem is their success has made compromise impossible. Since the foundation of popular government is compromise, popular government becomes impossible to maintain.

As to the rest of your question, why do they do the things they do? First, "they" is a much more complicated question than just politicians, and no, I don't buy that it's because politicians are sociopaths.

In his farewell address President Eisenhower warned against the creation of a military-indUstrial complex. Well, we created one and know we're seeing the blowback. Lots of people make lots of money selling exotic stuff like drones, video scanners, and data mining computer technology to the military. When the war winds down they look for new markets and find them in places like DHS and local police forces. It's the kid with a hammer analogy on a large scale. I could go on at great length if you're interested. I suspect you're probably not.
 
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I'm curious, Skinney, why does who I am and where I'm from matter so much? What's the point in making this personal?

I enjoy shooting and happen to have spent quite a bit of time looking at the things we're talking about from as many angles as possible.
 
Quote:In his farewell address President Eisenhower warned against the creation of a military-indUstrial complex. Well, we created one and know we're seeing the blowback. Lots of people make lots of money selling exotic stuff like drones, video scanners, and data mining computer technology to the military. When the war winds down they look for new markets and find them in places like DHS and local police forces. It's the kid with a hammer analogy on a large scale. I could go on at great length if you're interested. I suspect you're probably not...The existence of the "Military Complex" in itself is not bad..We need the technology advancements to stay abreast of the other 'super powers''...It's the political influence that they have achieved that is really hurting this country...I think Eisenhower's words were: "Beware the Military Industrial Complex", but not that it should not exist...

If we, as an Independent and Sovereign Country are to successfully negotiate on any matter, it needs to be done through strength, rather than fear and weakness...
 
All things considered, yes it is. Once you have an large, very lucrative industry whose sole source if income is surveilence technology and/or weapons, they will cultivate markets wherever they find them. Currently the US spends more on defense that the next 20 or 30 spenders - combined.

This leads to lots of money to be made. The drones and surveillence programs we're so justifiably upset about are the result. As Madeline Albright said, "what good is a huge military if you're not going to use it."

Edit:

OT that's what puzzles me. As a nation we are certainly not weak. But man are we scared.
 
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KlrDrvr just because you have guns does not make you one of us[republican].I have read all your post on this topic and I try to look at both sides.I have come to the conclusion you are a liberal.If the great men that founded this country would of compormised we would still be under english rule.Any one that defends the garbage that the prez. and his lackies spew out of their mouth are FOOLS!
 
Roode: Trust me I am not a Republican and have absolutely no intention of becoming one. However, I am a lifelong shooter, and I don't think the problems we confront as Americans and gun owners will not be resolved by sitting across the creek from each other yelling insults. I am rather, a liberal shooter that still is under the possibly mistaken impression that liberals and conservatives can have civl conversations. Perhaps I am mistaken. It certainly seems that civility is beyond you.

 
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..issued equipment at Liberal voting establishments... lol

Blinders.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: KlrDrvrI'm curious, Skinney, why does who I am and where I'm from matter so much? What's the point in making this personal?

I enjoy shooting and happen to have spent quite a bit of time looking at the things we're talking about from as many angles as possible.

Who you are does not matter to me, and being from Texas does not make anything personal, its just one of our last greatest conservative states.
glad to hear you enjoy shooting, you can look at it from what ever angle you want... do I think arguing on here is gonna change your mind? nope... you know how we ALL love the liberal coyote hunting gun shooters... being the "liberal" you say you are no wonder the NRA is no good, can we ask how much funding you provide peta with? and if you don't donate to peta, I'm sure the candidates you vote 4 have plenty of earmarks set aside for em.
 
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