thoughts on lapping rings?

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Originally Posted By: fw707The solid lapping bar in the Wheeler kit works great for checking alignment.
The pointed bars are worse than useless for that purpose.

Yep !

Pointed bars are really not a good tool..
To show true alignment is either a solid bar or 2 bars with perfectly squared off ends.

fw707 and I had a talk about this sometime ago.
 
Originally Posted By: fw707If you get good rings and a good base you won't need to lap them. this is not only a lie, but is also naive thinking. You can buy the best rings and bases money can buy, but if the base holes are not centered with the bore then it will not matter. If you lap the rings you need to bed them, otherwise you are just removing material and making your rings oblong shaped. Easiest thing to do is skip the hassel and purchase Burris signature zee rings and be done with it.
 
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Originally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: fw707If you get good rings and a good base you won't need to lap them. this is not only a lie, but is also naive thinking. You can buy the best rings and bases money can buy, but if the base holes are not centered with the bore then it will not matter. If you lap the rings you need to bed them, otherwise you are just removing material and making your rings oblong shaped. Easiest thing to do is skip the hassel and purchase Burris signature zee rings and be done with it.

Fred, sounds like you been buying some real junk guns.
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: fw707If you get good rings and a good base you won't need to lap them. this is not only a lie, but is also naive thinking.

It's one thing to disagree with some one, to me its another to call another man naive and a liar, especially when you don't know the man himself.

I'm not sure how well you know fw707, do you even know his name? Have you ever shot with him? Have you seen his rifles?
Well I can say from personal experience, that two things Jeff is NOT is a liar nor is he one bit naive. I have seen him consistently hit small targets from 800-1,000 yards during a long range match. He's culled rifles and optics until he's found out what works. Period.

Jeff has bought and sold more rifles than most people will ever own. He's also a self proclaimed optics nut. He's sold more high end scopes to buy more optics until he gets what works. So when he speaks of what works, it's not of brand loyalty, its what's been proven.

He is a highly skilled marksman and an even better man. I am proud to call him my friend and mentor and don't appreciate his character or integrity being questioned.
 
Originally Posted By: Buster HindendOriginally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: fw707If you get good rings and a good base you won't need to lap them. this is not only a lie, but is also naive thinking.

It's one thing to disagree with some one, to me its another to call another man naive and a liar, especially when you don't know the man himself.

I'm not sure how well you know fw707, do you even know his name? Have you ever shot with him? Have you seen his rifles?
Well I can say from personal experience, that two things Jeff is NOT is a liar nor is he one bit naive. I have seen him consistently hit small targets from 800-1,000 yards during a long range match. He's culled rifles and optics until he's found out what works. Period.

Jeff has bought and sold more rifles than most people will ever own. He's also a self proclaimed optics nut. He's sold more high end scopes to buy more optics until he gets what works. So when he speaks of what works, it's not of brand loyalty, its what's been proven.

He is a highly skilled marksman and an even better man. I am proud to call him my friend and mentor and don't appreciate his character or integrity being questioned. I could really care less what he supposedly can or can't do, that's not the topic here. Facts are Facts, buying supposed top quality bases and rings has nothing to do with how well, or lack there of, the drilled base holes are made into the action. Lapping the rings is not only a method employed to create better contact between the scope rings and the body of the scope, but is also a method used to ensure near perfect alignment between the bore and scope reticle center. Pull your panties out of the wad you got them in and wrap your mind around basic engineering principles.
 
Originally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: Buster HindendOriginally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: fw707If you get good rings and a good base you won't need to lap them. this is not only a lie, but is also naive thinking.

It's one thing to disagree with some one, to me its another to call another man naive and a liar, especially when you don't know the man himself.

I'm not sure how well you know fw707, do you even know his name? Have you ever shot with him? Have you seen his rifles?
Well I can say from personal experience, that two things Jeff is NOT is a liar nor is he one bit naive. I have seen him consistently hit small targets from 800-1,000 yards during a long range match. He's culled rifles and optics until he's found out what works. Period.

Jeff has bought and sold more rifles than most people will ever own. He's also a self proclaimed optics nut. He's sold more high end scopes to buy more optics until he gets what works. So when he speaks of what works, it's not of brand loyalty, its what's been proven.

He is a highly skilled marksman and an even better man. I am proud to call him my friend and mentor and don't appreciate his character or integrity being questioned. I could really care less what he supposedly can or can't do, that's not the topic here. Facts are Facts, buying supposed top quality bases and rings has nothing to do with how well, or lack there of, the drilled base holes are made into the action. Lapping the rings is not only a method employed to create better contact between the scope rings and the body of the scope, but is also a method used to ensure near perfect alignment between the bore and scope reticle center. Pull your panties out of the wad you got them in and wrap your mind around basic engineering principles.

Hey big boy, go back in read the part where I said to disagree is one thing or did that elude you too
 
Originally Posted By: Buster HindendOriginally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: Buster HindendOriginally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: fw707If you get good rings and a good base you won't need to lap them. this is not only a lie, but is also naive thinking.

It's one thing to disagree with some one, to me its another to call another man naive and a liar, especially when you don't know the man himself.

I'm not sure how well you know fw707, do you even know his name? Have you ever shot with him? Have you seen his rifles?
Well I can say from personal experience, that two things Jeff is NOT is a liar nor is he one bit naive. I have seen him consistently hit small targets from 800-1,000 yards during a long range match. He's culled rifles and optics until he's found out what works. Period.

Jeff has bought and sold more rifles than most people will ever own. He's also a self proclaimed optics nut. He's sold more high end scopes to buy more optics until he gets what works. So when he speaks of what works, it's not of brand loyalty, its what's been proven.

He is a highly skilled marksman and an even better man. I am proud to call him my friend and mentor and don't appreciate his character or integrity being questioned. I could really care less what he supposedly can or can't do, that's not the topic here. Facts are Facts, buying supposed top quality bases and rings has nothing to do with how well, or lack there of, the drilled base holes are made into the action. Lapping the rings is not only a method employed to create better contact between the scope rings and the body of the scope, but is also a method used to ensure near perfect alignment between the bore and scope reticle center. Pull your panties out of the wad you got them in and wrap your mind around basic engineering principles.

Hey big boy, go back in read the part where I said to disagree is one thing or did that elude you too it's not a disagreement, it's fact...I guess that eluded u.
 
Hey fred,
I been really busy today with highly technical stuff like canning mater juice and pickles, so I hadn't been keeping up with your latest posts.
After you called me a liar here on the open board, I figured I'd just let the personal insult slide, not say anything, and let you go on your merry way.
Then you said this:

Originally Posted By: fredhorace77
Lapping the rings is not only a method employed to create better contact between the scope rings and the body of the scope, but is also a method used to ensure near perfect alignment between the bore and scope reticle center.

Well, I think that is about one of the dumbest things I've ever read on Al's interweb!
lol.gif

Please tell us how you lap rings on the horizontal axis ONLY to correct a manufacturer's defect.

Originally Posted By: fredhorace77 You can buy the best rings and bases money can buy, but if the base holes are not centered with the bore then it will not matter.

So, how do you know if the base holes are centered with the bore?
Are you running out of windage?
Are you using the scope you have mounted on the gun as a known parameter?
That's not really a very good guideline to go by, unless you know the scope tracks perfectly on the windage turrets and you have a lathe and you've indicated your receiver to check the differences between the centerline and the base holes. Did you do that?
Did you check the runout in your barrel?
You are using a good quality aftermarket barrel, arent you?
I mean, with your reference to engineering you wouldn't use a junky factory barrel as a known correct control parameter, would you?
And you do know that even the best custom barrels have some runout, and it needs to be timed correctly? Yep, I'm sure you already knew that.

You know, I typed up all of this stuff and I think it might have been a waste of my time.
I think the real reason for your post attacking me for no reason at all was just to shill for your buddy sandyhicks because he got all butthurt about my post regarding his FL and neck sizing dies.
You didn't know anything at all about me before this subject came up, so what other reason would you have?

You remind me of an old country saying:

You can't teach a pig to sing.
You'll only waste your time, and you'll make the pig mad.

 
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Oh yeah,
Tell us more about your engineering degree.
Did you sleep in and drink beer on the days you were supposed to be going to your English 101 and 102 classes?
Or did you just miss the days they talked about capitalization, punctuation, spelling, and run-on sentences?
Or maybe you just paid somebody to write your stuff for you?
 
Originally Posted By: fw707Hey fred,
I been really busy today with highly technical stuff like canning mater juice and pickles, so I hadn't been keeping up with your latest posts.
After you called me a liar here on the open board, I figured I'd just let the personal insult slide, not say anything, and let you go on your merry way.
Then you said this:

Originally Posted By: fredhorace77
Lapping the rings is not only a method employed to create better contact between the scope rings and the body of the scope, but is also a method used to ensure near perfect alignment between the bore and scope reticle center.

Well, I think that is about one of the dumbest things I've ever read on Al's interweb!
lol.gif

Please tell us how you lap rings on the horizontal axis ONLY to correct a manufacturer's defect.

Originally Posted By: fredhorace77 You can buy the best rings and bases money can buy, but if the base holes are not centered with the bore then it will not matter.

So, how do you know if the base holes are centered with the bore?
Are you running out of windage?
Are you using the scope you have mounted on the gun as a known parameter?
That's not really a very good guideline to go by, unless you know the scope tracks perfectly on the windage turrets and you have a lathe and you've indicated your receiver to check the differences between the centerline and the base holes. Did you do that?
Did you check the runout in your barrel?
You are using a good quality aftermarket barrel, arent you?
I mean, with your reference to engineering you wouldn't use a junky factory barrel as a known correct control parameter, would you?
And you do know that even the best custom barrels have some runout, and it needs to be timed correctly? Yep, I'm sure you already knew that.

You know, I typed up all of this stuff and I think it might have been a waste of my time.
I think the real reason for your post attacking me for no reason at all was just to shill for your buddy sandyhicks because he got all butthurt about my post regarding his FL and neck sizing dies.
You didn't know anything at all about me before this subject came up, so what other reason would you have?

You remind me of an old country saying:

You can't teach a pig to sing.
You'll only waste your time, and you'll make the pig mad.

I'm going to try to put this as plain and simple as possible so even u "may" be able to understand. Aligning the scope and bore of the barrel is a practice that will help one achieve optimum sight clarity in a scope. Just as the Burris inserts do...that's it. If u can't understand that, then there's no sense in trying to go any further, it would only complicate ur mind that much more. If ur still having trouble then u need to read Tony Boyers book. That's all the help I can offer u. Take it or leave it it's up to u.
 
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Originally Posted By: fw707Oh yeah,
Tell us more about your engineering degree.
Did you sleep in and drink beer on the days you were supposed to be going to your English 101 and 102 classes?
Or did you just miss the days they talked about capitalization, punctuation, spelling, and run-on sentences?
Or maybe you just paid somebody to write your stuff for you?
come on man....that's all u got. My 4 year old can come up with better ones than that. At least try using something pertaining to the topic. Or u can just admit that it hurts when I spank u behind the tool shed.
 
Originally Posted By: fredhorace77
I'm going to try to put this as plain and simple as possible so even u "may" be able to understand. Aligning the scope and bore of the barrel is a practice that will help one achieve optimum sight clarity in a scope. Just as the Burris inserts do...that's it. If u can't understand that, then there's no sense in trying to go any further, it would only complicate ur mind that much more.

That is maybe (and most likely) the most unsubstantiated comment I've ever read regarding optics.
I'm using those words because i'm not going to say dumb or stupid.
Do you even have a clue what the word "parallax" means, and how it relates to alignment and "optimim sight clarity:?
"Optimum sight clarity" has absolutely nothing to do with
"Aligning the scope and bore of the barrel"
You can misalign your scope by 10 mil either way and the "clarity" will be the same.
 
Originally Posted By: fredhorace77come on man....that's all u got. My 4 year old can come up with better ones than that. At least try using something pertaining to the topic. Or u can just admit that it hurts when I spank u behind the tool shed.

OK, why don't you just explain your ramblings and we'll just see where it goes.
 
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Originally Posted By: fw707
You can misalign your scope by 10 mil either way and the "clarity" will be the same. Well, you are wrong again. You may want to go back to canning ur tomatoes, and keep ur mouth shut. You look smarter that way.
 
Originally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: fw707
You can misalign your scope by 10 mil either way and the "clarity" will be the same. Well, you are wrong again. You may want to go back to canning ur tomatoes, and keep ur mouth shut. You look smarter that way.

Well why don't you just enlighten us as to how the misalignment of your scope base holes affects the clarity of the glass in a scope?
How does which way your scope is pointing affect the clarity of the glass?

I think you need to go out behind your woodshed and spank yourself and I'll go back to canning maters.

It's pretty dang obvious that I know a lot more about canning maters than you know about scopes, rings, and bases.
 
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So If I hold an unmounted scope in my hand, it will not be clear because its not in line with the bore?


I could have swore when I took my new S&B out of the box last Friday I could see through it before I mounted on my rifle.
tongue_smilie.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Buster HindendSo If I hold an unmounted scope in my hand, it will not be clear because its not in line with the bore?


I could have swore when I took my new S&B out of the box last Friday I could see through it before I mounted on my rifle.
tongue_smilie.gif


You better be careful which way you point it!
 
Originally Posted By: fw707Originally Posted By: fredhorace77Originally Posted By: fw707
You can misalign your scope by 10 mil either way and the "clarity" will be the same. Well, you are wrong again. You may want to go back to canning ur tomatoes, and keep ur mouth shut. You look smarter that way.

Well why don't you just enlighten us as to how the misalignment of your scope base holes affects the clarity of the glass in a scope?
How does which way your scope is pointing affect the clarity of the glass?

I think you need to go out behind your woodshed and spank yourself and I'll go back to canning maters.

It's pretty dang obvious that I know a lot more about canning maters than you know about scopes, rings, and bases.
yes you know more than me....way way more...you win...ur right. I'm done with this idiot.

TO THE OP: Yes lap ur rings and bed them, or skip it and use the Burris sig. Rings with inserts.
 
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