What you don’t know about ADC

NASA

New member
“ADC work is easy. You get in a plane and gun every coyote in sight.”

At least that's the conception many people have. But the truth be known, there is much more to it than what that image conjures up.

Take this scenario for example. A sheep herder drives up on his flock and sees a coyote among the sheep. Sheep killer, right? As he gets closer, the coyote runs off. Lying on the ground is a dead sheep. “I knew it! Damn sheep killin’ coyotes.” Upon closer inspection, the herder sees that the sheep’s stomach and left rear leg have been eaten on. Positive confirmation of a sheep killin’ coyote, right?

The sheep herder calls up his buddies and they go on a coyote killing binge. Justice has been served.

Or has it?

Enter the Animal Damage Control Agent. This is who the sheep herder should have called first. The ADC specialist will come out and do an investigation first. He will inspect the dead sheep. He will determine how the sheep died. If, in fact, it was killed, he will determine what killed the sheep. He will then determine what course of action needs to be taken.

Results of ADC analysis. The Agent looks for evidence of attack. Puncture wounds, ripped throat, bite marks on the face and nose. There are none. The Agent then skins out the sheep to inspect the body for forensics that would indicate attack and take down by a predator. There are no signs of trauma. The sheep was not killed by a coyote, or any other animal. Actual cause of death will require an autopsy, which the Agent can arrange. The coyote seen by the herder was simply scavenging on an already dead sheep. That coyote, and the others in the vicinity were no threat to the flock.

This is just a miniscule example of what the ADC Agents have to know to do their job properly.

Denning for a stock killer is a whole different science. Once the determination has been made that an animal has been killed by a coyote, a different kind of investigation is launched. 99% of killed stock occurs during the lambing and calving season. Which also happens to coincide with the coyote denning season. Some coyotes turn to killing stock to feed their pups, however most do not.

The challenge to the ADC Agent is to now determine which particular pair, in an area with 30 coyotes, are the actual stock killers. It is not necessary to kill every coyote in the area in order to get the guilty party. Part of an ADC Agents training is to learn how to determine exactly which pair of coyotes are killing stock, locate their den, kill them and their pups, thus eliminating the problem. The other coyotes in the area are left undisturbed, as they are not stock killers.

The “exact” criteria (and methods) used to determine who the real stock killers are, is something Mr. Fish or Mr. Taylor will have to tell us, if they are willing.
 
Another thing you don't hear much about is the amount of paper work the ADC agent has waiting for him at the end of the day in the field.
 
Here's a scenario for anyone.

1-adult wild coyote[never tasted/eat or killed sheep]
1-lamb

Put both in a closed environment.
One water pan.
Feed/water the sheep when needed.
"No food" for the coyote.

Keep enclosed for as long as it takes.
-------------------------
Will that coyote, kill & eat that lamb?

No answer accepted, but "Yes" or "No" [no fence riding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif]
After your answer, give an explanation.

I'll be on standby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Last edited:
Quote:
Here's a scenario for anyone.

1-adult wild coyote[never tasted/eat or killed sheep]
1-lamb

Put both in a closed environment.
One water pan.
Feed/water the sheep when needed.
"No food" for the coyote.

Keep enclosed for as long as it takes.
-------------------------
Will that coyote, kill & eat that lamb?

No answer accepted, but "Yes" or "No" [no fence riding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif]
After your answer, give an explanation.

I'll be on standby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



NO

The coyote would jump or dig under the fence to get away from the goober who keeps comming to the fence to feed the lamb. Coyotes dont like human interaction. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Quote:
Part of an ADC Agents training is to learn how to determine exactly which pair of coyotes are killing stock, locate their den, kill them and their pups, thus eliminating the problem. The other coyotes in the area are left undisturbed, as they are not stock killers.



Actually Tom, seasonal population suppression is the norm.
Using non-selective means such as M44s, poison and aerial gunning, control agents will remove as many coyotes from a targeted area as possible, regardless of the coyotes "guilt or innocence".
 
Tom, I agree with all youhave said. I also am familiar with the thread this is coming from. I will state that if one of my farmers, whom I get to hunt on during winters, calls me and ask me to come shoot a coyote that has been around his place, I will be there forthwith. I will not give him a chance to call anyone else. I will take the summer yote, drive to his house and tell him thanks. that if he has any more problems before winter to call me again. That I prefer to hunt them in the winter months but will be glad to come back if he has concerns.

This board is made up of more than 90% hobbyist coyote hunters. It is what we do for fun. The ADC guys do it for a living. Are they the only ones allowed to get on here and pound their chest? Every thread posted with the results of a successfull hunt is chest pounding. It is why the board exists. Are we, as hobbyist hunters, not allowed to hunt lands that have an ADC guy working it?

I still find it odd that some guys can post summer results and are patted onthe back,while others are villified for the same actions.
 
Quote:
Quote:
Here's a scenario for anyone.

1-adult wild coyote[never tasted/eat or killed sheep]
1-lamb

Put both in a closed environment.
One water pan.
Feed/water the sheep when needed.
"No food" for the coyote.

Keep enclosed for as long as it takes.
-------------------------
Will that coyote, kill & eat that lamb?

No answer accepted, but "Yes" or "No" [no fence riding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif]
After your answer, give an explanation.

I'll be on standby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



NO

The coyote would jump or dig under the fence to get away from the goober who keeps comming to the fence to feed the lamb. Coyotes dont like human interaction. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif




+1 rofl thats funny but true
 
Quote:
agents will remove as many coyotes from a targeted area as possible



There is no one single answer to fit all situations. If the rancher requests mass annihilation, and is willing to pay for it, he will get exactly that. This is usually the case where a group of adjoining ranchers get together and form a pool, or co-op.

If the ranch is so massive, and/or has gawdawfull terrain then it may be much more expeditious to aerial gun the population simply to reduce the odds.

Trapping, denning, and calling all work best in a controlled environment. By that I mean where the Agent has the opportunity to access the coyote(s). In inaccessible areas there is no alternative except to use non-discriminatory methods.

Quote:
if one of my farmers…. calls me …. to come shoot a coyote ….. I will be there forthwith



And so would I! We have a “relationship” with them we have to maintain if we expect to continue to have access to their land. However, we need to be aware of, and respect, any ongoing ADC work that may also be in progress on that property. That is where our friend CMIDDLETON caught his hose in the combine. There was an existing ADC effort contracted for that property, and surrounding property. The herder asked him to shoot an eyeballed coyote. He obliged. Neither one had any awareness of the consequences of their action. This was a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing.

The ranches/farms you and I shoot on are probably not as expansive as those we’re talking about in WY. Also, I doubt our friends ever have the need to call in the gunships. So if we accommodate our farmer friend and hang a dead coyote or two by his gate, we’re most likely not disrupting a planned and calculated ADC operation. But just to be on the safe side, it wouldn’t hurt to ask. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
well i may have made cal and fish mad, dean just gave me the ok for deer and antalope this year /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif as a reword for killing the one coyote i was told to kill. i normally would not hunt there for deer and antalope but i found out this morning i didn't draw any tags /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif in the first go round and they have lots of left overs for that area.
what really bites is i didn't get my elk tag.
as a wyoming native i have only drawn two buck antalope tags in my life. whats up with that? i think antalope out number people 10 to 1 around here.
i still have to draw in the second drawing so its still not a sure thing.
even if that coyote never tasted sheep i bet he has deer and antalope.
 
Last edited:
now back to the starter of this thread.
this thread is exactly why i hang around on this site.
there is nothing i wont more than to learn new things about calling critters.
i myself would love to have the pro's adc,county,call makers,and vidio makers teach us things we havn't heard.
even if they make us take a test after they are done.
{as long as they don't grade us on spelling and puncuation}
i don't wont to make things harder for them i wont to ease the burdin.
i have a great respect for them and what they do.[except the ones involved in transplanting wolves]
thats old news though we don't even want to get started on my personal thoughts about wolves.i should not have brought that up. and after hunt talk i'll with hold that fight.
but coyotes are my addiction i love them as much as elk hunting and i can call them alot more often.
 
I don't doubt the truth of the original post, but EVERY ADC operation I've ever personally known of was of the "kill as many as you can" variety. Maybe it comes from living in areas where the ranches are measured in sections instead of acres, I don't know.

I can say from personal observation that if a coyote has tasted sheep, whether he killed the first one or not, he will likely be a sheep killer. I have seen them brave guard dogs, people, traps, etc., to get at sheep, even when the area is infested with their "natural" food supply (rabbits and ground squirrels).

When a coyote will sneak into a flock knowing that people are right there, rather than take the "easy" meal that's running all over the place, my only conclusion is that he must think that mutton and lamb is pretty good stuff.
 
When I'm called do help a guy out. I do my home work within reason but get to work killing ASAP. When I call and a coyote comes he dies (most of the time). Job finished? is it ever? Heck no, unless you kill them all. Is this possible? Not hardly. I agree with working smart but when you have the size area to work that these guys are talking about it is not always feasable or even nesessary to do a full scale investigation to seek out the excact coyote that's doing the killing and then kill only him/her. You simply use your head and kill everyone you can get killed by the most efficient means available until the problem stops, temporarily. Temporarily you might ask? Believe me, if you are good enough to go in and somehow surgically remove the only the "guilty" coyote another will usually fill his place in due time (unless he's dead too). Now this doesn't mean I go in guns a blazing either, but I damn sure don't give any a pass. Most ADC men know their teritorry quiet well and may have even worked it for many years. This can cut your time down a lot. Very same applies to a lot of seasoned hoby callers.

Coyotes are opportunistic predators and will, given the opportunity prey on livestock. Dead ones don't. This may come as a news flash to some but hey this is what they do or at the very least fully capable of doing. Now before you put words in my mouth, I did not say the only good coyote is a dead coyote, and I did not say kill them all and let God sort them out. What I am saying is if your having livestock depredation problems, start killing coyotes and you'll eventually, and quiet likely fix the problem. It however, in most cases only temporary. This is why these guys have jobs from year to year in the same areas.

Now before I get the lecture about causing problems by killing the wrong coyote give me a break. If the coyote is in or around the livestock he is the "right" coyote or at least "one of them" and not colateral damage or the wrong coyote. Coyotes and sheep don't coexist well together and you and the rancher have to decide whether your raising coyotes or sheep. Now, I also didn't say every coyote is a lamb killer, but they all dang well have plenty of potential to become lamb killers. If you don't understand this you've watched to many Disney movies. You also don't have to have a special decoder ring to figure this stuff coyote stuff out either. It is not rocket science. Just because a guy is not a paid profectional ADC man doesn't mean he doesn't possess the know how to kill coyotes for a man when ask. Possibly even the "RIGHT" coyote. Many guys I know that aren't paid pro's are fully capable of figuring this stuff out and most likely kill the problem coyote or coyotes. Not all non pro coyote hunters have trouble figuring out which end of the call to blow into.

I've been around coyotes and depredation long enough to figure out what needs to be done and usually succeed in getting it done. It can definatly be hard work and very frustrating at times but with a little common since and some experience it really ain't that hard most of the time. I believe some of you guys egos are making this more difficult than it really is.

You guys go call some coyotes and have some fun. You guys that do it for a living do the same. Good thing about our jobs/sport they always make more.

Byron
 
Coyotes are opportunistic killers. That means they will take the easily available sick, weak, and wounded. Healthy animals are normally only targeted by territorial adults. These older coyotes are usually the one's responsible for killing (healthy) livestock. The longer a coyote lives in and dominates an area, the more likely he will eventually build up the courage and learn how to kill sheep. Even so, a pair of coyotes can live near sheep and never bother them. But if those non-threatening coyotes are removed, other coyotes may move into that area and start killing. Blindly killing all coyotes in an area can very easily make the problem much worse. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
These non-threatning coyotes don't cause ranchers to pick up the phone and call me. When my phone rings I go to where the problem is and remove every coyote I can in the neighborhood. NONE get a pass from me in areas where problems are occuring.

For the record. I rarely hunt coyotes after March for pleasure as it's just to hot to be enjoyable. When I do hunt after March it's to stop a problem in an area where a coyote or coyotes are causing problems. Thus reducing the risk of me killing one of those lovely non-threatning coyotes that would rather watch the pretty livestock than eat it. I kill as many of them in the fall and winter as I can though. Weathers better and it's much more enjoyable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

This may come as a shock to some of you but I dearly love to call in a shoot coyotes.

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Last edited:
To actually make a long term drop in coyote population of a certain area, don't you have to remove 70% of that areas coyote population, and, MAINTAIN that 70% removal rate for FIVE YEARS? I keep running into this statistic and a couple of studies done, one in Texas and one in Arizona. Comments?
 
Quote:
NONE get a pass from me in areas where problems are occuring.



I've heard that quote before. From Iraq. It went something like, "When you don't have to try to distinguish terrorists from civilians, it makes the job a whole lot easier. You just kill 'em all, and let Allah sort them out". Maybe that's what it takes to be a "professional". Never taking the easy way out? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
the way i call is to hunt them hard oct threw march vary rarely do i get a call to go out but if i want to call the winter you better bet when one calls i go.
i know my area well i have been calling this ranch from 90 tell now except when kelly had it tied up with nicolations.
they had a full time coyote man and didn't need me or want anyone else kelly is good at this too.
i still called some of the serrounding blm and state and did well. i try not to tick off any rancher and john didn't want anyone out but kelly.
when ed stecanhoff had it len carter called a time to two. and eli always welcomed me out. ed had told me every place he ever heard a howl from at the home ranch,barbra and tim liked me coming to the altman and that ranch was the best place to call i have ever called. had lots of 10 coyote days out there.
now russle came in a bought hat six so that cut my calling in half.
right after that is when john leased the stuff at ormsby so that was off to for a while i moved to calling out at dry creek but that to cut my calling down due to being 50 miles away.
i'm tickled to death to get ormsby back 8 miles and i'm calling thats why i will bend over backwards to keep them happy with me.
good calling and saves gas.
wyoming has more area than one could ever call as a weekend caller but the closer the less money it takes the more often i can do it.
 
cmiddleton, it's obvious you didn't deliberately interfere with an ongoing ADC operation. Your intentions were honest even if the timing was a little miscalculated.

Thank you for being such a good sport and taking all the heat like a man! You show a lot of self-control. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Your post turned out to be very educational for a lot of people. One of the benefits of a forum like this is "You never know where a post is going to go". This one was no exception and provided a lot of insight. Sometimes there are things going on behind the scene that we really should be aware of, in order to avoid stepping on any toes. I hope folks were paying attention to the lessons learned here.

Your neighbor, Cal Taylor is a good man. Sometimes he doesn't have a lot of patience with slow learners like me, lol. But when he gives advice, you can take it to the bank! I also hope you get to meet Tim Fish FTF some day. He really is a nice guy. Not real big on palaver but chock full of knowledge.
 
"This may come as a shock to some of you but I dearly love to call in and shoot coyotes.
Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif"

I don't believe it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif
 


Write your reply...
Back
Top