Whats the minimum Ft lbs of enery needed to kill a Coyote?

dultimatpredator..this is my last round..no one is following your post's..nor being "brutal"..i'm just calling it the way i see it..i do respect the fact that you research thing's.."however" look at it this way..what did we ever do before the internet ?? we just went out & did it..sure i use the web myself to learn & gather information..as a matter of fact it's very useful..does that mean it's written in stone ??..nope..the point i'm making is information gathered can be helpful..&..useful.."however" we all need to put that information to use..that's all i'm saying..it's very possable we as a society have to much information @ our finger-tips..time will tell if that's a good thing or not ?? in all honesty i'm not bashin..or..after ya at all..& basing decision's on internet opinion's..including "mine" might not be the way to go..
 
Quote:
dultimatpredator..this is my last round..no one is following your post's..nor being "brutal"..i'm just calling it the way i see it..i do respect the fact that you research thing's.."however" look at it this way..what did we ever do before the internet ?? we just went out & did it..sure i use the web myself to learn & gather information..as a matter of fact it's very useful..does that mean it's written in stone ??..nope..the point i'm making is information gathered can be helpful..&..useful.."however" we all need to put that information to use..that's all i'm saying..it's very possable we as a society have to much information @ our finger-tips..time will tell if that's a good thing or not ?? in all honesty i'm not bashin..or..after ya at all..& basing decision's on internet opinion's..including "mine" might not be the way to go..



Mr. Allen, I believe I had you pegged wrong and I hope you will accept my apologies for that. If you ever even cared you are officially off of the "Grumpy Ol'Fart" list /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Sincerely
Chupa
 
LOL, no Chupa that wasn't for your benefit. It was for
Quote:
I've never been so bold as to say " I can do it all day " as others do on here.


the "others" you acknowlege above.
Wind, dust, sweat, gnats, deer flies, single digit temps, and snotcicles will all affect long distance accuracy. It can also contribute to blowing a 30 yd slam dunk, too.

But the Egg Shoot I mentioned isn't done under "studio quality conditions". It's done under typical, late winter, AZ, coyote hunting conditions. No target rifles, no shooting benches, just your carry gun. No fryingpan sized gongs, just a chicken egg on a golf tee. No fluff, no excuses. This is where the plinkers are separated from the shooters. But then again, if no "shooters" show up, then distances probably won't get past 200-300 yds, and a plinker has a chance to win a really nice prize. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
chupa..of course i accept your apology..if the worst thing i'm called in life is "grumpy" i can deal with that..BTW..i'm the ripe "ole" age of 43..maybe i am "old" ??that being said i just say thing's the way..i see..them..really nothing more..or..less..i'm on the continuing learning path myself..i just think..some of us..or..I..have been guilty..sometime's of making thing's more complicated than need be that's all !!
 
I missed all the fun. I just returned from my managers meeting tonight. The one thing that was brought up about training employees while I was there was there are no stupid questions and you can never ask too many. Thanks for all the helpful posts. As stated earlier, I have only had to shoot one Coyote around the 350 yard range. The the other couple of dozen were within 20 to 100 yards max. I just wanted to see if I ever needed/wanted to shoot one farther what would be the extreme. I think If I ever tried I would keep my max between 500 to 600 yards.
 
At the ranges you say your normal shots are at you are doing fine and you probably won't have to deal with the long range shots. You should be set up fine.
 
Quote:
This is where the plinkers are separated from the shooters.

If any of you long range shooters manage to get to Wyoming in late August you might want to consider trying the International Tactical Rifle Championships if Dave gets them going this summer.

Quote:
But then again, if no "shooters" show up, then distances probably won't get past 200-300 yds, and a plinker has a chance to win a really nice prize.

Gosh, I would think anyone who can bust an egg at 300 yards under the conditions you mention, with the gear required would be quite the "shooter". Afterall, I would imagine a frying pan sized gong at 500 yards would be a lot easier to hit.
 
Last edited:
I.O.N.Doyle, I got a hug for you too.
I know there are quite a few shooters here, and undoubtedly some will show up for the egg shoot. Man I sure would like to go and shoot with some of ya, unfortunately funds are a little short right now(I was out of work for a while) But maybe in the near future. Lord knows my calling technique could use some help from some of you guys.
 
I shot one a year ago with my MQ1 with about 68 ft./lbs. of energy...of course it was a 35 yard shot so it was only about 50# by the time it got there... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
I saw this one time at it was stated at 450 ft. lbs

I have to agree with growing number of folks trying to shoot predators at very long range. Predator hunting is in the calling up close not hope and pray long shots. There is no doubt in my mind that I have rifles and the skill to hit a predator at 500 yds do it on PD's all the time. However, I am in no way even gonna try this type of shot on a predator! First off a marginal hit on a PD is still a deadly blow. Not for a predator. I can't see wounding anything like this for it to die a long slow death! The purpose is call them in close. The hunting is in the calling. If I can't get them in close I let them walk.
 
Quote:
The hunting is in the calling. If I can't get them in close I let them walk.

And that's the smart thing to do. I must confess to lacking the self discipline to pass up on a drive by shooting when I am not calling. When I see a coyote at 400 yards in the middle of a p-dog town I just can't resist. I have also been known to take some really long shots while following up on a shot that didn't get it done right the first time around at a reasonable distance. I'll throw lead at a runner/cripple a long way out there if they stop.
 
I hope I "egged" on some of you folks with that little rant about the PM Hunt Egg Shoot. It really is a challenge, especially with any kind of wind. What makes it a "challenge", is that you only get a certain number of shots. The philosophy of
Quote:
I'll throw lead at a runner/cripple a long way out there if they stop


isn't an option in this contest. Skill, not luck, takes home the prize! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
Quote:

Greetings and welcome.

Winchester silver tip loads in a 38 special pistol delivers 218# at the muzzle. i would expect to see a yote die quicky if I shot it with a 38 special point blank.

So you can use 218 ft. lbs. as a good number.

22 LR ammo produces about 100 ft. lbs. at the muzzle. I would expect a coyote to die if i shot it in the head with a 22 rifle point blank.

So 100 pounds at the cranium is a good number.

The way I look at rifle killing power at extreme long range, is by looking at pistol killing power at normal pistol range.

Like I have killed deer, with my GI .45. a good 'ol 45 makes about 375-400# at the muzzle. and at 30 yards in my experience a 45 will pile up a whitetail every time.

So I hunt deer now days with my AR .223, with my short barrel, anbd my loads, I'm still hitting at 400 yards with the same energy that my 45 killed those deer with at 30.
good enough for me. (And proven effective: read the post in this forum "dont underestimate your ar .223")

Sure I have used mathmatical tables in my eager youth, but it would never fail that someone would ask my "expert opinion" on this stuff at a gun show, or out whereever and I would never have my calculator handy to do the math for them, regarding there game and load.

So hence my "pistol dialog".... it evolved like this:

a guy see's me at the local gunshow and runs me down to ask about a new rifle for a new kind of game he has never hunted what to get?

I ask what range hunting? a 1000 yards gas/power line cut? or a .8 yard visibility rhodedendrum thicket?

So let's say guy says well where I hunt I can see 300 yards across a bottom...

Let's say the game is wild boar. So I say to guy, well if you were to have to defend yourself, at pointblank range, from a charging wild boar, what is the LEAST powerful pistol you would feel comfortable with?

Lest's say guy says, wow man, I would hope to at least have a .357 magnum.

Then I say okay, well a .357 at point blank produces around 550 # at the muzzle.

So if you think it takes minimum .357 mag energy to quickly stop a boar,when it's your rear on the line choose a rifle round that has that much energy, at the max range you would shoot a boar- when it's the boars rear on the line to make a quick & ethical clean kill.

get a rifle round that has at least 550 # left at 300 yards.

That has been my standard that has evolved over the years for the whole debate of "what is needed to kill what at how far"

No, it's not sexy, absurdly scientific, etc, but it is practical & logical. and it helps guys, laymen figure out the stuff for themselves.

And when the pressure is more than you can bear, and your there with your wallet quivering, motuh watering over a firearm at the gun show, it is a quick "kill-power formula- at range method" that just works, without a calculator & PHD.

So you asked about Coyote? If I or my wife were being charged by a highly motivated, highly ticked off coyote at point blank, I would hope to have a minimum of a 22 Magnum pistol....

Well, an average 22 mag load out of a 6 inch ruger single six revolver would be spitting out 150 +/- ft. lbs. of energy.

So, by my unsexy logic here, my 16" ar-15, spitting out Sierra 55 grain blitzkings @ 3000 fps still has 150 ft. lbs. of energy at 700 yards. So that is my max range, for MINIMUM "killing power."

Waht the 22 mag pistol will do point balnk is equal to what my AR & my loads will do at 700.

Can I put the bullet in the vital zone at 700 yards? Can I read the wind that well? Can i get the coyote to stand still long enough to range him, read the wind, measure for up or down shooting angle, and adjsut my scope for all those varibles and shoot before he moves? That is a whole other topic.

You wanted to know about required kinetic energy on coyote at range. I have given you a handy "pistol/rifle comaprison tool" to use as a rough approximation. but know this,

99% of the time, the shooter is the limiting factor, not the cartridge or it's power at range. If YOU, the driver of the weapon, can not put the bullet in the vitals, then allbets are off, even it your shooting at bumble bee's with .50 cals.

The best words of wisdom i was even given in shooting was
"amatuers study ballistics, experts study wind" in reagrds to shootng rifles.


i have taken quite a long time to try to give you a useable tool to answeryour questions, ad enable to help you answer these types of questions for the rest of your shooting life.

I hope I havw made up for you being possibly "rubbed the wrong way" on this forum. This is the nicest, most kind and helpful out doors froum on hte net. We hope you can participate and enjoy it!












gdc One of the things that this theory fails to consider is energy transfer, The .22 magnum pistol at point blank range will offer full expansion and energy transfer to the coyote, however the .223 depending on bullet construction and remaining velocity may fail to expand having a far less devastating effect on the animal
 
Last edited:
Quote:
Exactly 2.25 Lbs ... thats what I set my trigger pull at...



Best reply of the thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Well the good lord knows I never try to offend anyone. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif But DULTIMATEPREDATOR what kinda of 223 are you shooting with what power and name brand scope??
 
Last edited:
Quote:
I'll throw lead at a runner/cripple a long way out there if they stop.

That comment has to do with pushing limitations when the need arises to perform on demand in less than desireable situations. It has nothing to do with luck vs. skill while shooting at an egg. The back and forth in this thread is getting old and I think those who have issues with one another should go private.
 
GDC:

"" One of the things that this theory fails to consider is energy transfer, The .22 magnum pistol at point blank range will offer full expansion and energy transfer to the coyote, however the .223 depending on bullet construction and remaining velocity may fail to expand having a far less devastating effect on the animal """

G,
My unofficial, unsophisticated theory is a rough rule of thumb,never been called "perfect" & for the basic shooter.... It also relies completely on the correctly designed bullet for the application. What you say about the example .22 mag is true, but what you went on to say about the .223 in my experience is inconsistent with my finding in actual use.

A well engineered bullet expands an amount per velocity. Which works out great for us. At close range we need a bullet to violently expand so as to deliver max energy availible and hopefully not make a hole in the far side of the fur. But at long range, when the bullet is getting tired they fortunantly dont expand as much, allowing the bullet to penetrate at least into the vitals and often muscle on the far side. Still having expanded enough to stop- delivering ALL availible energy again without making a hole on the far side of the fur.

If a bullet compeletly fails to expand you-
1. Are using the wrong bullet
2.Have a statistical fluke
3.Are shooting beyond the cartridges range- velocity wise.

Thanks for the reubuttle!
 
Last edited:


Write your reply...
Back
Top