Where is the Birthcertificate Billboards?

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I also would like to see what passport he used to travel to Pakistan in 1981, since US citizens were not then allowed to visit there. It makes one wonder if he used a British or Indonesian passport.



Was there a travel ban to Pakistan at that time?
http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/2008/08/berg-complainta.html


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There is also strong reason to wonder whether he became a naturalized Indonesian citizen as a young boy based on the new Indonesian guy his mommy hooked up with there.



Do you have any evidence that he acquired Indonesian citizenship? Even if he had it wouldn’t affect is US citizenship. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html


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This all should have been resolved before he was offered as the Democrat candidate.

these are all non-issues that weren’t in need of being resolved.
 
No offense taken.

Foreign born parents isn't the point, whether they're US citizens at the time of the child's birth is.

The Constitution wasn't ratified until 1789. They made allowances for the fact that nobody born prior to that would be a natural-born citizen under Article II of the Constitution.

That's why they included "or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution"
They wrote in a loophole to cover the first generation after we became a country, since there were no "citizens" to serve as parents to make you "natural-born", if you follow their logic. Without that, nobody would have been eligible. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That covers Andrew Jackson (born 1767) and
Thomas Jefferson (born 1743).

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James Buchanan was of Irish descent, his father, James Buchanan, Sen., emigrated to this country in 1783


His father would have automatically become a citizen when the Constitution was ratified. Therefore, he was born here of 2 citizen parents (the whole point I was making).

I base that on this: "The new United States of America adopted the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution, confirming the fundamental rights of its citizens on December 15, 1791."

I guess if you were here, in one of the colonies, you were a citizen.

Chester Arthur's father (William) was reportedly not naturalized until 31 August, 1843.
Chester was born in 1829.


PDF.link

That's where the problem arose, not having 2 citizen parents. The guy was not eligible. He gamed the system and got away with it.

Woodrow Wilson's mother, Janet Woodrow Wilson, born in Carlisle, England but raised in America. I've got to figure she was a citizen before he was born. If so, no problem, he's a natural-born citizen. I've never seen where anyone questioned that she was a US citizen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Barack Obama, born in Hawaii (so he says, I guess he remembers the day), mother a US citizen, father a Kenyan citizen (British subject).
Natural-born citizen?

Not if Chester Arthur wasn't, no way.
 
Can't it also be argued that Obama is illegitimate?

The father was married in Kenya before coming to the US, he did not divorce.

He came here and hooked up with an 18 year old American girl, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's mother. They married.

Polygamy is illegal in the US, thus that was never a legal marriage.

Ergo, Obama is a bastard.

Am I wrong here anyplace?

Rimmy--I stand corrected on the Pakistan travel ban. It was an advisory because of the turmoil there. I heard "ban" on the radio last week and I didn't check it out myself. My bad. I'm still curious to see if he held a foreign passport, though.
 
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these are all non-issues that weren’t in need of being resolved.



If the issues are non, how come O's spent almost $1 million dollars fighting the non-issues to keep from having to produce the documents?
 
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Can't it also be argued that Obama is illegitimate?

The father was married in Kenya before coming to the US, he did not divorce.

He came here and hooked up with an 18 year old American girl, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's mother. They married.

Polygamy is illegal in the US, thus that was never a legal marriage.

Ergo, Obama is a bastard.

Am I wrong here anyplace?


I had heard that earlier marriage issue before and it’s an interesting thought. Is there any law that restricts bastards from holding public office?
 
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If the issues are non, how come O's spent almost $1 million dollars fighting the non-issues to keep from having to produce the documents?


Can you document how much he has spent “to keep from having to produce the documents”?
 
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Can't it also be argued that Obama is illegitimate?

The father was married in Kenya before coming to the US, he did not divorce.

He came here and hooked up with an 18 year old American girl, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's mother. They married.

Polygamy is illegal in the US, thus that was never a legal marriage.

Ergo, Obama is a bastard.

Am I wrong here anyplace?


If his parents marriage was not legitimate than it’s likely that he would be a citizen at birth even if that birth occurred in Kenya. Now how this would affect the status of natural born citizen would have to be determined by the courts.

http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html
 
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Here’s a link that questions that line of reasoning.



That's quite the excuse-making site for Obama, isn't it? It almost looks neutral until you realize the examples they use.
I could post some excerpts from the Federalist Papers and discussions between authors of the Constitution that would poke some holes in their definitions, but they would just ban me and disappear the links.

According to that site, where they had to resort to English Common Law for an "acceptable" answer, there is no difference between any regular citizen and a natural-born citizen.

If that were so, explain why the framers went to the trouble of being so specific that they required a natural-born citizen in only ONE case (POTUS and VP)?

By their logic,the son of two illegal immigrants would be eligible, if he were born on US soil. He could even return to Mexico (or where ever) to be raised, as long as he didn't renounce his US citizenship.
Once they were 35 years old and a resident for 14 years, they would meet the requirements.

Do you actually believe that?
 
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I could post some excerpts from the Federalist Papers and discussions between authors of the Constitution that would poke some holes in their definitions, but they would just ban me and disappear the links.



Give it a try. I’ve seen several opposing views in their comments.

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According to that site, where they had to resort to English Common Law for an "acceptable" answer, there is no difference between any regular citizen and a natural-born citizen.



the difference is between a natural-born citizen and a naturalized citizen. An example would be Gov. Arnold of CA. He is a citizen but not native born.

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By their logic,the son of two illegal immigrants would be eligible, if he were born on US soil. He could even return to Mexico (or where ever) to be raised, as long as he didn't renounce his US citizenship.
Once they were 35 years old and a resident for 14 years, they would meet the requirements.
Do you actually believe that?



By the letter of the law it is possible. I find it highly unlikely but I haven’t seen anything in the law that prevents it. In this conversation you keep trying to apply logic to the law. Personally I have found that when I try to apply logic to the law the law seldom follows my logic. That’s why I often ask for links to what law someone is referring to.
 
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Can't it also be argued that Obama is illegitimate?

The father was married in Kenya before coming to the US, he did not divorce.

He came here and hooked up with an 18 year old American girl, Stanley Ann Dunham, Obama's mother. They married.

Polygamy is illegal in the US, thus that was never a legal marriage.

Ergo, Obama is a bastard.

Am I wrong here anyplace?


I had heard that earlier marriage issue before and it’s an interesting thought. Is there any law that restricts bastards from holding public office?



No, not at all, but it would help your side because according to immigration law he would be a "natural born" US citizen because of his mother's US citizenship even if he was born in Kenya.

Let's be honest, the Constitution is vague on this stuff.

Personally, I think Rimmy is right, a "natural born" citizen is just a term used to distinguish from a "naturalized" citizen, ie someone who was born as a foreign national who became a citizen later. Thus, a US citizen born in Kenya would be "natural born" even though that sounds odd.

I have difficulty not letting my dislike of Obama cloud my thinking about this. Mitt Romney's dad, George, was born in Mexico but ran for president in 1968 and was considered "natural born" because both his parents were citizens. Thus, taking Obama's Kenyan father out of the discussion really strengthens Obama's "natural born" citizenship claim, even if he was born abroad.

Again, the big problem has been determining facts because he has not been at all helpful in providing records.

But, I still really want to see his 'vault copy' 1961 birth certificate.
 
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If the issues are non, how come O's spent almost $1 million dollars fighting the non-issues to keep from having to produce the documents?


Can you document how much he has spent “to keep from having to produce the documents”?



Can you simply answer a question? Why would he do that?
 
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If the issues are non, how come O's spent almost $1 million dollars fighting the non-issues to keep from having to produce the documents?


Can you document how much he has spent “to keep from having to produce the documents”?



Can you simply answer a question? Why would he do that?


do you have any proof that he did to that?
 
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If the issues are non, how come O's spent almost $1 million dollars fighting the non-issues to keep from having to produce the documents?


Can you document how much he has spent “to keep from having to produce the documents”?



Can you simply answer a question? Why would he do that?


do you have any proof that he did to that?



http://skylla2012.wordpress.com/2009/02/...is-he-spending/

There is no practical reason for him not to show his long form HI Birth Certificate, unless he doesn't have one.
 
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I had heard that earlier marriage issue before and it’s an interesting thought. Is there any law that restricts bastards from holding public office?



Just looking at most of the members of Congress I suspect that there isn't.
 
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http://skylla2012.wordpress.com/2009/02/...is-he-spending/



That's your standard of proof? A blog referring to unlinked reports. I see that the nearly 1 million dollars has shrunk to 800 thousand. Now that 200 thousand dollars may not seem like much to you but it is a substantial difference to me. Even for that 800 thousand dollars we aren’t given an accounting of what cases it was spent on. Beyond all that do you think that spending that amount of money on so many court cases is unusual or a sign of guilt? Not to mention that this post has so many other errors that it should be embarrassing to post it. It keeps being mentioned that he should show his birth certificate yet to date no court has asked for it. They mention the number of court actions but fail to mention how many of these actions have been dismissed. They accuse Obama of having his birth record sealed when it fact that type of record is automatically sealed by state law. They refer to Hawaii statue 338 allowing for a Hawaii Birth certificate for foreign-born children. The only statute that comes close in this respect is 338-17.8, which wasn’t in effect until 1981.
 
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I had heard that earlier marriage issue before and it’s an interesting thought. Is there any law that restricts bastards from holding public office?



Just looking at most of the members of Congress I suspect that there isn't.



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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http://skylla2012.wordpress.com/2009/02/...is-he-spending/



That's your standard of proof? A blog referring to unlinked reports. I see that the nearly 1 million dollars has shrunk to 800 thousand. Now that 200 thousand dollars may not seem like much to you but it is a substantial difference to me. Even for that 800 thousand dollars we aren’t given an accounting of what cases it was spent on. Beyond all that do you think that spending that amount of money on so many court cases is unusual or a sign of guilt? Not to mention that this post has so many other errors that it should be embarrassing to post it. It keeps being mentioned that he should show his birth certificate yet to date no court has asked for it. They mention the number of court actions but fail to mention how many of these actions have been dismissed. They accuse Obama of having his birth record sealed when it fact that type of record is automatically sealed by state law. They refer to Hawaii statue 338 allowing for a Hawaii Birth certificate for foreign-born children. The only statute that comes close in this respect is 338-17.8, which wasn’t in effect until 1981.



So, rimmy are you saying that he hasn't had a team of lawyers going all over the country fighting all of the legal action filed to get him to show his HI long BC? And if not then who's been doing it ?
 
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So, rimmy are you saying that he hasn't had a team of lawyers going all over the country fighting all of the legal action filed to get him to show his HI long BC? And if not then who's been doing it ?


You’re the one making claims as to what his lawyers are doing and how much money is being spent. One issue that is common to many of the lawsuits is that the petitioners were asking for an emergency ruling that election should be stopped and later that it shouldn’t be certified. No candidate could afford to ignore a case like that. It’s my guess that this is the issue were Obama’s lawyers would concentrate on. Your claim is that the legal fees were used “to keep from having to produce the documents” yet you don’t provide any proof. You also keep getting hung up on the long form BC when the COLB is adequate proof of place of birth.
 
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