I am looking at getting another rifle and am trying to decide between 243, 22 250, and 204. what are your thoughts. I was first going to go 243 then I started to worry what if I decide to start and skin and sell since coyote and fox are both at 50 dollars per hide around here. My only other rifle is a 30-06.
which caliber for coyote and fox
- Thread starter bigtommy
- Start date
if your wanting to save the hide I would go with 204 or even smaller. mabe look at a 17tac. 243 and 22-250 are going to blow right through a fox. at almost any distance. honestly the 30-06 is a bad round for saving hids as long as you use fmj's it will only leave a 30 call hole in and out. Iv shot severl yotes and dad took a cat with it a couple years back.
Rich Cronk
New member
Choosing a rifle caliber that doesn't cause severe fur damage on fox is asking quite a bit. Choose a good strong bullet. Leave those highly frangible varmint bullets out of the picture. Speer has bullets that are designed for hunting bigger Game. I believe their "hot core" bullets would pencil right through a fox and leave you something to skin.
I have had some success with the .204 not blowing up fox. The fox I have shot have all been reds and with a 35g Berger most of the time I have not had exits. I have been lucky to stay off the shoulder and the shots have mostly been broadside behind the shoulder or head on in the chest. eventually though, I will blow one up.
Like Rich said, stay away from the explosive bullets and choose a bullet that is constructed like a big game bullet. My .223 loaded with 55g lead nose Sierra Game Kings isn't too brutal on them, just a pass through, but not overly explosive. Hornady also makes a .224 lead tip that is also not real explosive.
Like Rich said, stay away from the explosive bullets and choose a bullet that is constructed like a big game bullet. My .223 loaded with 55g lead nose Sierra Game Kings isn't too brutal on them, just a pass through, but not overly explosive. Hornady also makes a .224 lead tip that is also not real explosive.
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coyote is going to be my main use. Is there a good bullet for the 243 that will not do much damage. I know I can use fmj or sp but will they still do too much damage with the 243. The reason for 243 would be that my son could use it for deer also but if 243 is going to tear up the coyote too much I will be getting one of the other two calibers I guess.
Originally Posted By: bigtommycoyote is going to be my main use. Is there a good bullet for the 243 that will not do much damage. I know I can use fmj or sp but will they still do too much damage with the 243. The reason for 243 would be that my son could use it for deer also but if 243 is going to tear up the coyote too much I will be getting one of the other two calibers I guess.
.243 Win. with a 58 Gr Hornady V-Max
.243 Win. with a 58 Gr Hornady V-Max
The Famous Grouse
New member
Originally Posted By: bigtommycoyote is going to be my main use. Is there a good bullet for the 243 that will not do much damage. I know I can use fmj or sp but will they still do too much damage with the 243. The reason for 243 would be that my son could use it for deer also but if 243 is going to tear up the coyote too much I will be getting one of the other two calibers I guess.
Where are you in MN? I hunt MN and I will tell you that where you are makes a major difference in rifle choice.
MN has sharp variations in terrain and hunting setups. What's best for the NE is very poor for the SW.
Also, you should know that I know a lot of MN hunters and many of them take most coyotes with a shotgun. Pelt damage is therefore minor and overall effectiveness is much better in many situations.
Grouse
Where are you in MN? I hunt MN and I will tell you that where you are makes a major difference in rifle choice.
MN has sharp variations in terrain and hunting setups. What's best for the NE is very poor for the SW.
Also, you should know that I know a lot of MN hunters and many of them take most coyotes with a shotgun. Pelt damage is therefore minor and overall effectiveness is much better in many situations.
Grouse
The Famous Grouse
New member
Originally Posted By: bigtommySe mn average shot is 200 to 300 with possibility of 400
OK, then I'd suggest 2 options. Both of which I own and use in Minnesota.
.243 with 50-60 grain bullets. I have a Tikka and it's awesome with these loads and it can also fire a 90 grain BT with the same level of accuracy. A tremendously versatile rifle considering the price.
or...
.22-250 - Again, I have a Tikka. Of all your options, the .22-250 is the king of the reach-out-and-touch-em rifles. It's freaky-flat to the point where it's unbelieveable. Even with the same weight bullets, my 250 is significantly flatter than the 243 at all ranges 300 and beyond.
Fur damage? Everything depends on where you hit them and at what range with these rifles. Obviously, there is a compromise that you're going to have to make here, especially if you keep the requirement for it to serve double duty as a deer rifle.
Some might suggest tricks like using FMJ bullets. I'm not sure how I feel about these in areas that have the people population density of SE MN. I'm super careful about where the bullet might end up.
Grouse
OK, then I'd suggest 2 options. Both of which I own and use in Minnesota.
.243 with 50-60 grain bullets. I have a Tikka and it's awesome with these loads and it can also fire a 90 grain BT with the same level of accuracy. A tremendously versatile rifle considering the price.
or...
.22-250 - Again, I have a Tikka. Of all your options, the .22-250 is the king of the reach-out-and-touch-em rifles. It's freaky-flat to the point where it's unbelieveable. Even with the same weight bullets, my 250 is significantly flatter than the 243 at all ranges 300 and beyond.
Fur damage? Everything depends on where you hit them and at what range with these rifles. Obviously, there is a compromise that you're going to have to make here, especially if you keep the requirement for it to serve double duty as a deer rifle.
Some might suggest tricks like using FMJ bullets. I'm not sure how I feel about these in areas that have the people population density of SE MN. I'm super careful about where the bullet might end up.
Grouse
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGAnything that is great for foxes will be a little weak for coyotes. Anything that is great on coyotes will be a little much for foxes. No such thing as the perfect one for both.
Couldn't agree more. There is a big difference between a 10 lb fox vs. a 40 lb coyote. (Kinda like the difference between a black bear and a grizzly.)
If you are serious about not destroying fox fur you are looking at something like 17HH, 17WSM, 22 mag, or 22 hornet. The hornet is effective on coyotes out to 100-150 yards and is probably as close to a fur friendly dual purpose catridge as you're apt to find. If you go with something heavier (222, 223, 17 remington) you won't like the results on fox. Many consider the 17R to be the most fur friendly coyote catridge out there although I personnaly use a hornet or 222 (w/o ballistic tip bullets).
I see some have suggested 243 loads. I suspect range has a large impact on terminal performance and a 243 carries a lot of energy compared to most of the catridges being discussed. I grew up in SE MN and spent 40 some years hunting the fields, woodlots and river vallies. Perhaps some others will weigh in but my experience would suggest most shots are shotgun range out to a 100 yards or so.
Just my 2 cents... which is probably what it's worth.
Couldn't agree more. There is a big difference between a 10 lb fox vs. a 40 lb coyote. (Kinda like the difference between a black bear and a grizzly.)
If you are serious about not destroying fox fur you are looking at something like 17HH, 17WSM, 22 mag, or 22 hornet. The hornet is effective on coyotes out to 100-150 yards and is probably as close to a fur friendly dual purpose catridge as you're apt to find. If you go with something heavier (222, 223, 17 remington) you won't like the results on fox. Many consider the 17R to be the most fur friendly coyote catridge out there although I personnaly use a hornet or 222 (w/o ballistic tip bullets).
I see some have suggested 243 loads. I suspect range has a large impact on terminal performance and a 243 carries a lot of energy compared to most of the catridges being discussed. I grew up in SE MN and spent 40 some years hunting the fields, woodlots and river vallies. Perhaps some others will weigh in but my experience would suggest most shots are shotgun range out to a 100 yards or so.
Just my 2 cents... which is probably what it's worth.
yotyfox
New member
Since your main concern is coyotes, just split the difference and go with a .223 and a 55 grain soft point. Have had good luck with this combo on coyotes and red fox. Fur damage on the coyotes have been minimal, a little more on the fox. For strictly fox, a .22 mag is hard to beat.
ARCOREY
New member
I wouldn't shoot a fox with anything you listed if I wanted the hide. My 223's have even been rough on greys at times with soft points and polymer tips at mild velocities. I'd work on calling them in closer and going with a lighter gun.
Just because you can see that far doesn't mean you need to shoot that far. Guys in the flat open deserts routinely kill canines under 100yds. I think a coyote rifle and fox rifle can be the same within reasonable distance, but it is a fine line to walk for sure. I'm trying the 17rem with 25gr. Target HP's at 3500fps this year. Kirk McKendrie routinely does it with a 17MKIV and 20gr. V-maxes at around 4000fps. Shot placement is going to be key, as always you'll want to avoid the point of the shoulder. Throw another deer rifle for your kid and 400yds in the equation and you got a recipe for a gun collection
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Good news is that you can start off with a fur gun and save the $50 a hide to buy another deer rifle. 5 hides = Savage Axis in 243. Everybody wins
Just because you can see that far doesn't mean you need to shoot that far. Guys in the flat open deserts routinely kill canines under 100yds. I think a coyote rifle and fox rifle can be the same within reasonable distance, but it is a fine line to walk for sure. I'm trying the 17rem with 25gr. Target HP's at 3500fps this year. Kirk McKendrie routinely does it with a 17MKIV and 20gr. V-maxes at around 4000fps. Shot placement is going to be key, as always you'll want to avoid the point of the shoulder. Throw another deer rifle for your kid and 400yds in the equation and you got a recipe for a gun collection
Good news is that you can start off with a fur gun and save the $50 a hide to buy another deer rifle. 5 hides = Savage Axis in 243. Everybody wins