Who is making 6.5 Grendel uppers?

V

va_ken

New member
Thinking about a 6.5 Grendel upper with a varmint / deer barrel configuration that is not too long or heavy. Any experiences or recommendations?
 
Yeah - already checked them out. Les Baer is too $$$ and Alexander Arms is a possible. Dan Carey says "no" and have not heard from Mike @ DTech yet.
 
The 6.5 should be at least a couple hundred feet per second faster than the Grendel, but would have mag-length issues with any of the heavy VLD bullets. Big-game/varmint/predator hunting would not be a problem.

I have though of calling AA and seeing what it would take to get licensed for building the 6.5 Grendel, but I've been so busy with what I'm doing now, it's just been "on the back burner"
 
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So you have to have a license / permission to build a Grendel??


Must be some sort of patent issue or something...
 
It is a proprietary cartridge and has not been popular enough to gain much steam. The military didn't think much of it when they were looking for a new cartridge for the M16. They chose the 6.8 SPC and rightfully so, its a better mouse trap.
I won't be building the the 6.5 anytime soon. I do however build the 6.8 and most customers that have it really like it. I haven't shot mine enough to draw an opinion about it.
 
I don't know where you have been getting your information lately but the 6.5 Grendel is becoming extremely popular. At the SHOT SHOW, Fiochi anounced they were picking up the Grendel, Wolf will be producing steel cased Grendel ammo within the next 2 months (already making brass), Bill Alexander filmed 2 segments of Future Weapons with the Grendel and the Beowulf,Lapua has been producing brass for a while now, Satern has just expanded its company to help compensate with the influx of orders, Les Baer and Sabre are selling uppers....there is starting to be a huge demand for this caliber. Alexander Arms is expanding it's licensing and it looks like this cartridge is going to take off in the very near future.

www.65grendel.com has a lot of information and comparisons to other popular cartridges
 
Dtech,
I would highly encourage you to contact Bill A. I know you are busy already, but the demand for the Grendel is huge, especially in hunting configurations.

Steve
 
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Quote:
It is a proprietary cartridge and has not been popular enough to gain much steam. The military didn't think much of it when they were looking for a new cartridge for the M16. They chose the 6.8 SPC and rightfully so, its a better mouse trap.
I won't be building the the 6.5 anytime soon. I do however build the 6.8 and most customers that have it really like it. I haven't shot mine enough to draw an opinion about it.



Dan,

I don't mean this to be confrontational, and I do not have
either a 6.8 SPC, or a 6.5 Grendel, upper at this time,
but would you care to elaborate on, "They chose the 6.8 SPC
and rightfully so, its a better mouse trap."? Especially
the "better mouse trap" part. From what I have read,
and given the difference in bullet selections for these
two different calibers, I am not clear which one is a,
"better mouse trap". And did the military choose the
6.8 SPC?

Thanks
Squeeze
 
Dan,

I agree with squeeze. Not wanting to argue or I'd go to another forum, but after shooting both and taking all things into consideration, I own a Grendel. Depends on what you're going to use it for I guess........My .02

Jeff
 
I don't own a Grendel, maybe it's the license thing. I do have a 6.8, I built it about 6 months ago. It has been shot for function only. The military wanted a close quarter combat round with more energy than the 5.56 and chose the 6.8. I have no dog in this fight, just an opinion. I just build them.
However, if I wanted a long range rifle, I would take a DPMS LR 308 and rebarrel it to 6.5X284, that's the case I use on one of my thousand yard rifles. I think R. U. Grendel is proud of his cartridge. As always time will tell the final tale.
 
Dan
How much heavier is the DPMS 308 vs a standard AR15? Weight is a factor for some of us more "mature" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif(read older) members.
 
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Proud and just stating the facts...here what Bill A. posted today in the Grendel forum about the shot show. And note this is only PART of what he has to report.

"In order to make everything a bit more readable I am going to write my SHOT show report in a series of sections rather than one huge dialogue. It also gives me time to work back through my notes and make sure I pick out all the highlights.

As everyone probably knows Alexander Arms did not have a booth at SHOT this year (first time in years) so it was suprising to see how much ground we could cover. The four days almost flew past and the meetings ran end to end on most days so I did not really see that much of the show. Anyway I am going to start off with the ammunition and projectiles.

Wolf is the big news for me, and I hope to be seeing the first of the steel cased 110 grain FMJ ammunition in the next few weeks. I will extend my gratitude again to Bill Filbert and the whole Wolf crew again for looking after us so well during the show and arranging the meetings with the Russians. They are now well placed to commence the production of the first batches but as with most who used to occupy a place in the Soviet war machine they were extremely concerned about the specifications for the round, probably overly so. My first impression was that they were tackling the work per a government production contract and were concerened that they would have to meet stingent performance specifications at all levels. We left with everyone feeling much more relaxed about the project and some good looking timelines. I think we will see the Russian factory pushing the boundries with some new propellent technologies.

Next on the list must be the work with Fiocchi. While Fiocchi is the producer this part cannot be written without mention of Midway USA who were instrumental in putting this deal together and working to define the loads. Equally important is the fact that Midway, in working with us on this will be handling the distribution of the product. As many who are reading this have already experienced Alexander Arms is production shop and our distribution can certainly be lacking at times. In Midway the Grendel is getting a great partner who is placed to supply the market with product and geared to deliver that product. Fiocchi themselves will be producing the ammunition in the US with premium grade small primer brass. Their loadings will be geared mainly to the hunters with the loads of note being the 120 TSX from Barnes and the 100 grain Nosler BT. For target shooters they are looking at the 123 Sierra Match King. There are other loads but these are to be confirmed.

Berger bullets is again making suitable new projectiles and I think that the new projectile has already been mentioned by Big Al, in fact he seems to know more than me so if he will chime in the info it will be appreciated.

Barnes is talking about a polymer tipped X bullet but at this time are not saying where they will place the weight. I hope that by NRA we will have persuaded them to look towards a 110 to 130 grain bullet.

Lapau; again thanks to Lapua for backing the whole Grendel idea and continuing to stick with it. I had two good meeting with these people and yet again they are bringing help to the project at a whole number of levels. They will be providing warehousing for the Grendel brass in the US rather than Finland to ease the flow of product through the nightmare of importation and they are backing the likes of Les Bear and Geoff Hoffman at Blackhills ammunition with additional production that I do not have to pay for. I did get to the bottom of a conumdrum with respect to their loading data. Obviously different test barrels will yield different results by a slight margin but I was always supprised that the Viht loads were all high. Anyway they presented me with a copy of the new relaoding manual (very nice book aside from the Grendel entry) and it would appear that they are running loads for up to 55,000 psi rather than 50,000, so caution when using these. I had a good conversation with the new engineer and he will be correcting this ASAP and I pushed that he get more data into the book for the next addition. Lapau will be getting two rifles as way of an incentive (bribe) so I think there will be a good response.

On propellents I am particularly happy. I had a great discussion with Ron Rieber and Chris Hodgdon of Hodgdon (IMR & Winchester) Mr. Rieber shoots a Encore pistol in 6mm BR so he did not take much persuading to look at the Grendel. The cartridge is making some quite sizable waves now and I was pleased to find he knew all about it and was already looking to see what they would need to do. I think he was also relieved to find that we have held a standard for the chamber and pressure so his work is simple. I will be bugging Deb Satern for another universal test barrel and we should se Hodgdon data in a reasonable time frame.

Western and Accurate have the same entries for loads as last year and I could not locate their ballistics enginner to talk to him during the show.

Next report to follow soon

Bill Alexander"

I will post any more that he has to say.
 
You know...


I have to give Bill Alexander credit for knowing his marketing, but I really hate this trend. How can selling sub-$1,000 uppers hurt his freaking brand?

The .224 BOZ is another cartridge that get my goat. It is patented and they won't let anybody chamber for it. Patenting a necked down 10mm auto cartridge? Go freaking figure. BTW, they aren't currently supporting it, but they are issuing lawyer letters to anybody that tries to build a pistol.

I wish P.O. Ackley would rise up and kick these guys square in the junk. I will personally hug and kiss the first person to produce a resonably priced "6.5 grendel-compatible" upper. Like the .223 Wylde relates to the 223 Remington, it should profit AA absolutely nothing. Bonus points if they call it the 6.5 Viol8tor.
 
Hello everyone,

Im a new member and have a question for you guy's. I have been intrested in this round since I first read about it. It sounds like a perfect long range round for yotes, as well as deer. My question is if it would be possible to convert a Howa 1500 into this caliber, as I have been liking their new AXIOM model. Kinda got used to the pistol grip after 10 years in the Army and 10 months in Iraq ( Got shot, it sucked!).

I already have two AR's and want something new. This collapsible stock will also be perfect for my twelve year old stepson. He is going to start hunting next year and the recoil reduction system will help, as he is still a little lanky.

Any information would be appreciated, if this is a possibility, or should I just wait to see what happens?
 
I'm just curious DaveD, but what would be an acceptable price for a 6.5G upper, and in what configuration? Because I'm betting there are uppers out there that you don't know about that are quite affordable. Or maybe you want to build your own. Would you like a 16" barrel and bolt. Maybe a 18"? Or maybe you would like to do a custom long range upper using a Satern cut rifle barrel? Or maybe you want a chrome lined barrel. Sabre will cut you out one if that is your wish.

"How can selling sub-$1,000 uppers hurt his freaking brand?"

It has nothing to do with the price of the lower, but keeping a high quality product.

""6.5 grendel-compatible" upper"

It's called the 6.5 CSS - but I wouldn't call them cheap. And they are the ones that created a bunch of the problems that you may here about associated with the 6.5G

Most of your rants seem to come straight from arfland, where facts are overlooked and emotion runs high. There has been alot of misinformation spread about the 6.5 and the 6.8. A perfect example is "The military wanted a close quarter combat round with more energy than the 5.56 and chose the 6.8." The truth of the matter is, some guys at 5th special forces group helped create the cartridge, but the military has not adopted it. The US armed forces still uses 5.56. Spec. ops runs on their own budgets, get their own toys, and can experiment with whatever they feel like - but I hardly consider them the whole "military".

Now, some think Bill Alexander created the 6.5 Grendel to go after the military. That is not true. He has a military program, but it is called Wulfgar, but that is another story. The Grendel was created, because he actually wanted a hunting round that could be fired out of an AR that wouldn't punish the shooter like his 50 Beowulf does, and have long range capability.

There are so many falacied about both cartridges out there, that it is hard to seperate the fact from the bull.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the 6.8 is a good all around cartridge, and some day, I will get a upper in 6.8. But everything the 6.8 can do, the 6.5 can do better.

And the licensing fee, from what I understand is basically nothing. What the small manufacturers balk about (read CSS) is the liability insurance Bill A. requires.

I usually stay out of these threads, but for some reason, I decided to jump in on this one. Call it the crazy jarhead in me. And yes, I am building a 6.5 Grendel.

Steve
 
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