Why the heavy barrel?
- Thread starter csam
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Chupathingy
New member
I carry a HB because i'm strong like a baby Gorilla. And the chicks dig a thick barrel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Seriously, I just got a Howa 1500 .204 with a #2 contour for calling but used my range weapons until I figured out I didn't need the added weight in the field /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif.
Chupa
Chupa
Chupathingy
New member
Quote:
How about a medium, or a light-HEAVY? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Like whats on the Savage Pred......... Yeah, I kinda dig that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.
Chupa
How about a medium, or a light-HEAVY? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Like whats on the Savage Pred......... Yeah, I kinda dig that /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif.
Chupa
ADCcoyote
New member
2muchgun, your cases bear zero relevance to this debate, I would never tell anyone that a .223 AI or not to be taking 400+ yrd shots on deer, unless your an experianced shooter your going to have more runners than killers! So your testament is a crack shot shooting at targets that the majority would be out of range for and have little energy to get the job done effectivly? 600 yards and a 5-10MPH cross wind do the math with a .223 bullet, come on get real!
A heavy barrel of what one gets factory to me is not a big deal to carry, I walk alot calling coyotes for a living I use a heavy barrel 22-250 and I just bought a heavy .243, I do have a sporter 25-06, I like it but I get far better long range accuracy with the heavy 250 and I'm sure my .243 will be the same.
If everything was killed with one shot probably not much different, except when you add in higher power scopes, recoil depending on caliber and how steady on a bi pod or sticks one can be with a heavier outfit, all this adds to better shot placement.
My only draw back to my 25-06 is I don't get to see it through the scope due to the higher recoil and lighter rifle, in many that can lead to a flinch even a slight one and shooting at 500+ yrds at a target the size of a coyote can surely lead to misses more often than a heavy barrel, one day the 25-06 will be outfitted to a remington contour heavy barrel, for now it see's less use from me than the other 2 heavy barrels, larger targets not as big a deal, I shot a 4x4 WT at 455 yards dropped stone dead, didn't see it through the scope though.
Barrel weight makes more differance in multiple shots, flinch factor and accuracy for the majority of shooters.
A heavy barrel of what one gets factory to me is not a big deal to carry, I walk alot calling coyotes for a living I use a heavy barrel 22-250 and I just bought a heavy .243, I do have a sporter 25-06, I like it but I get far better long range accuracy with the heavy 250 and I'm sure my .243 will be the same.
If everything was killed with one shot probably not much different, except when you add in higher power scopes, recoil depending on caliber and how steady on a bi pod or sticks one can be with a heavier outfit, all this adds to better shot placement.
My only draw back to my 25-06 is I don't get to see it through the scope due to the higher recoil and lighter rifle, in many that can lead to a flinch even a slight one and shooting at 500+ yrds at a target the size of a coyote can surely lead to misses more often than a heavy barrel, one day the 25-06 will be outfitted to a remington contour heavy barrel, for now it see's less use from me than the other 2 heavy barrels, larger targets not as big a deal, I shot a 4x4 WT at 455 yards dropped stone dead, didn't see it through the scope though.
Barrel weight makes more differance in multiple shots, flinch factor and accuracy for the majority of shooters.
2muchgun
New member
The debate is why carry a heavy barrel in the field for predator hunting. Agreed? If you can not read what I said, specifically, without reading into it, and understand it, then I do not wish to argue with you about it. Maybe you did not read the whole thread, I don't know........
I'm trying to figure out how you overheat a barrel and wear it out shooting at coyotes. As far as things go I prefer a lightweight rifle for calling. It shoulders faster and is plenty accurate enough to get the job done.
What it really boils down to is that it's a matter of personal preference. I have a heavy barrel 700 VLS in 22-250 that needs a bipod for me to be able to shoot it which means that the great majority of the coyotes I shoot at with it won't get killed because I'm not strong enough to be swinging that monster around fast enough to swing it around very fast. For me it's a squirrel gun. I cut two inches off the barrel and had it blueprinted and it shoots like a 40XB.
What it really boils down to is that it's a matter of personal preference. I have a heavy barrel 700 VLS in 22-250 that needs a bipod for me to be able to shoot it which means that the great majority of the coyotes I shoot at with it won't get killed because I'm not strong enough to be swinging that monster around fast enough to swing it around very fast. For me it's a squirrel gun. I cut two inches off the barrel and had it blueprinted and it shoots like a 40XB.
A few thoughts on this topic-
I own and use 7#, 10# and 12# rigs for calling and they all work fine and accuracy is about the same. I prefer to use my 12# 204, it just feels steadier on the sticks or offhand in a breeze and I can see every bullet impact. The debate about accuracy or barrel heat has zero relevance in this subject. As far as carrying the weight, well spend less time in front of your computer and your heavy guns will feel little lighter. I can carry a 12 # gun and fanny pack of supplies all day from stand to stand while coyote calling and I need a hip replacemant in the next few years. That said, I am no superman and would much rather have a light rifle for big game hunting when I am hauling a pack, food, hide, etc all day. I quess personal prefernce and experience has a lot to do with it.
I own and use 7#, 10# and 12# rigs for calling and they all work fine and accuracy is about the same. I prefer to use my 12# 204, it just feels steadier on the sticks or offhand in a breeze and I can see every bullet impact. The debate about accuracy or barrel heat has zero relevance in this subject. As far as carrying the weight, well spend less time in front of your computer and your heavy guns will feel little lighter. I can carry a 12 # gun and fanny pack of supplies all day from stand to stand while coyote calling and I need a hip replacemant in the next few years. That said, I am no superman and would much rather have a light rifle for big game hunting when I am hauling a pack, food, hide, etc all day. I quess personal prefernce and experience has a lot to do with it.
brdeano
New member
Quote:
600 yards and a 5-10MPH cross wind do the math with a .223 bullet, come on get real!
Just for record, I don't really feel like doing any arguing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I've only killed out to 575yds with my 223AI and a 75Amax, That was a woodchuck. But as far as wind drift, The 75Amax drifts 4.25MOA at 600yds in a 10mph cw when started at 3K. The guy in that video is running his 75's 150fps faster than I am, so that'll cut it down a smidge.
600 yards and a 5-10MPH cross wind do the math with a .223 bullet, come on get real!
Just for record, I don't really feel like doing any arguing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I've only killed out to 575yds with my 223AI and a 75Amax, That was a woodchuck. But as far as wind drift, The 75Amax drifts 4.25MOA at 600yds in a 10mph cw when started at 3K. The guy in that video is running his 75's 150fps faster than I am, so that'll cut it down a smidge.
I started calling sometime in 1965 and back then nobody that I knew used shooting sticks or bipods. Also, very few rifles had heavy barrels. Heavy barreled rifles were for target shooting. It's now become a fad but most of the heavy barreled factory rifles don't shoot any better than a high quality sporter. There are exceptions.
I learned to shoot predators with a light sporter rifle using my knees for support. I still strive to use that position but sometimes it's impossible. I bought my first set of lightweight shooting sticks last year and I just got a bipod for my 700 VLS because I want to shoot a few coyotes with it this year. It's not what you'd call a lightweight calling rifle. lol I will only use it in more open country.
Say you have a hard runner at close range. You have the rifle set up on the sticks facing directly in front of you but a hard runner comes in from your extreme right. What good are those shooting sticks then? You're going to lift the rifle off of the sticks and swing the barrel to catch up to the target. Not all coyotes present a standing shot just where you want them. I put the sticks where I think they might be beneficial but when I need to move fast I don't want them hanging up in the sage brush or bumping a rock making me miss or not be able to take the shot.
Real calling isn't all like the videos you watch. Coyotes present themselves in any number of ways and you don't get to edit the bad ones out. You take the cards as they're dealt.
I learned to shoot predators with a light sporter rifle using my knees for support. I still strive to use that position but sometimes it's impossible. I bought my first set of lightweight shooting sticks last year and I just got a bipod for my 700 VLS because I want to shoot a few coyotes with it this year. It's not what you'd call a lightweight calling rifle. lol I will only use it in more open country.
Say you have a hard runner at close range. You have the rifle set up on the sticks facing directly in front of you but a hard runner comes in from your extreme right. What good are those shooting sticks then? You're going to lift the rifle off of the sticks and swing the barrel to catch up to the target. Not all coyotes present a standing shot just where you want them. I put the sticks where I think they might be beneficial but when I need to move fast I don't want them hanging up in the sage brush or bumping a rock making me miss or not be able to take the shot.
Real calling isn't all like the videos you watch. Coyotes present themselves in any number of ways and you don't get to edit the bad ones out. You take the cards as they're dealt.
MPFD
Well-known member
I think your theory about it being a western thing my be somewhat accurate. I don't know about everybody else's reasons, but my rifle pulls double duty. I carry a 20" HBAR, cause I use it for coyotes and praire dogs. It's not as heavy as a 1" contour but If I had an AR for each different purpose I'm sure I could get by with a lighter barreled gun. It may get to pull triple duty next year if they legalize .22 centerfires for deer season in Kansas.
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ADCcoyote
New member
According to my program at 3100 fps 10 MPH at 600 yards with a 75 grain bullet wind drift is 26.82 inches and drop on a 250 zero is 56.60" and your down to 632 Flbs of energy left and will take .773 seconds to reach target, that is a BC rating of .435 if the amax is at that BC rating? I'm not calling that a deer load for sure.
PK1 when calling cover that can bring a coyote into 60 yrds or less and summer time den calling I pack both a rifle and a shotgun as you will end up with more dead coyotes in this approach than trying to get close range work done with a scoped rifle on moving coyotes. If I have a good vantage point and can see well, I use just the rifle but packing both adds coyotes for sure.
I set up so I'm facing the approach of most coyotes! You use the wind and terrain to your advantage and you can tell how those coyotes will approach alot of the times, most downwind of your sounds, the beauty of an e caller is just that. In summer I have found more to come just straight in as they are agreesive coyotes and having both the rifle and shotgun makes shooting pairs % higher for sure.
If I'm shooting a rifle I want it either on sticks or prone with a bi pod, cover will help one make that decision, but having a rock solid rest is paramount to me and consistant hits.Because dead 1st time called coyotes can't get wise Good day!
PK1 when calling cover that can bring a coyote into 60 yrds or less and summer time den calling I pack both a rifle and a shotgun as you will end up with more dead coyotes in this approach than trying to get close range work done with a scoped rifle on moving coyotes. If I have a good vantage point and can see well, I use just the rifle but packing both adds coyotes for sure.
I set up so I'm facing the approach of most coyotes! You use the wind and terrain to your advantage and you can tell how those coyotes will approach alot of the times, most downwind of your sounds, the beauty of an e caller is just that. In summer I have found more to come just straight in as they are agreesive coyotes and having both the rifle and shotgun makes shooting pairs % higher for sure.
If I'm shooting a rifle I want it either on sticks or prone with a bi pod, cover will help one make that decision, but having a rock solid rest is paramount to me and consistant hits.Because dead 1st time called coyotes can't get wise Good day!
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2muchgun
New member
Please do not take offense at what I am going to say. It's nothing personal, just don't know any other way of saying it. I do not wish an argument either.
Not sure where you are getting the wind drift calculations, It is more than obvious you are quoting a manual or some computer program and have not done it.
The only reason I posted the shooting links is to show guys that light barrels are very accurate in the right hands and that HB rigs are not needed, but may be preferred by some still. Never talked about how far one should shoot, or what they should shoot at, killing power, etc.
Here is another 223AI 75gr v-max load. 515yds. You can see that there is probably a 5-10mph crosswind. He states he dials 3.5moa of windage, and that he should have dialed 3.75moa. Right along the same lines as what Brad quoted.
Once again, please excuse the language.....
Not sure where you are getting the wind drift calculations, It is more than obvious you are quoting a manual or some computer program and have not done it.
The only reason I posted the shooting links is to show guys that light barrels are very accurate in the right hands and that HB rigs are not needed, but may be preferred by some still. Never talked about how far one should shoot, or what they should shoot at, killing power, etc.
Here is another 223AI 75gr v-max load. 515yds. You can see that there is probably a 5-10mph crosswind. He states he dials 3.5moa of windage, and that he should have dialed 3.75moa. Right along the same lines as what Brad quoted.
Once again, please excuse the language.....