Why the trend to fast twist heavy bullets in .223?

Originally Posted By: ninehorsesThat is my problem, I did the math, and the 69's don't gain much advantage until you pass 500 yards.
There are better choices for 500 yards and beyond, 75 A-max comes to mind.


I've never had to force a su-optimal choice on chucks from 500-650ish running a 223 and 75's. There has been many to witness it happen time and time again.

The same rifle will really RPM up the 50-52 gr bullets and shread smaller fury critters at closer ranges.

Most guys that run anything over 60 gr will never get the befits of using them. The other not "most" guys have a reason why,not just becuase.
 
I love my 8 twist and 75 gr amaxes for long range pdoging and chucking. Way better than the 40-55 grains when your talking beyond 500 yards IMHO.
 
The further you shoot, and/or the harder the wind blows, the greater the advantage becomes. Not to mention, due to their greater weight, they hit harder also. Simple physics, not opinion.

If you feel none of these characteristics/advantages are needed given your particular shooting/hunting habits, by all means stick to slower twists and lighter bullets......
 
Originally Posted By: BOBTAILSI love my 8 twist and 75 gr amaxes for long range pdoging and chucking. Way better than the 40-55 grains when your talking beyond 500 yards IMHO.

Rob, I haven't seen a pdog field in years. Hopefully in the near future I can make it happen, as it's time to break the 800-1000 yd marker.
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I do miss my 75gr A-maxes Tim. Fabulous LR bullets in a 223.

I don't need to explain to you why they don't work in my ARs, and my 1-9" bolt gun will stabilize the Hornady 75gr BTHP but not the 75gr. A-maxes. So for now, they are outta the picture
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If I ever built a fast twist 22-250, I would have it specifically chambered for the 75gr A-max. Then I could take full advantage of what the 22-250 has to offer over the .223. It is too bad that you get lots of 223 twist options from the factories, but very few 22-250 twist options. Making it difficult to realize said advantages without a custom tube. Yet another reason to go fast/heavy in a factory .223. Simply because you can.....
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSI love my 8 twist and 75 gr amaxes for long range pdoging and chucking. Way better than the 40-55 grains when your talking beyond 500 yards IMHO.

Rob, I haven't seen a pdog field in years. Hopefully in the near future I can make it happen, as it's time to break the 800-1000 yd marker.
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I'm working on it, fellas. Not promising accommodations like Tim T...but I'm hoping to get in with some ranchers whom need PDogs gone! Stay tuned...
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeOriginally Posted By: BOBTAILSI love my 8 twist and 75 gr amaxes for long range pdoging and chucking. Way better than the 40-55 grains when your talking beyond 500 yards IMHO.

Rob, I haven't seen a pdog field in years. Hopefully in the near future I can make it happen, as it's time to break the 800-1000 yd marker.
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Any time you want to come out for that I'll hook you up!
 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunI do miss my 75gr A-maxes Tim. Fabulous LR bullets in a 223.

I don't need to explain to you why they don't work in my ARs, and my 1-9" bolt gun will stabilize the Hornady 75gr BTHP but not the 75gr. A-maxes. So for now, they are outta the picture
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If I ever built a fast twist 22-250, I would have it specifically chambered for the 75gr A-max. Then I could take full advantage of what the 22-250 has to offer over the .223. It is too bad that you get lots of 223 twist options from the factories, but very few 22-250 twist options. Making it difficult to realize said advantages without a custom tube. Yet another reason to go fast/heavy in a factory .223. Simply because you can.....

22-250 + 75 gr Amax, Heck yeah Ken that would be a wicked combo!!
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeKen, you tried the 70 VLDs ?

Nope. Do they stabilize in a slower twist than the 75gr A-max?
 
It definitely is a wicked combo. With bullets they have now, gun makers should take notice and offer faster twists accordingly. Of course many have been saying this very same thing for a long time now. I get that it isn't for everyone, but like I said earlier, options are a nice thing to have............
 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunOriginally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeKen, you tried the 70 VLDs ?

Nope. Do they stabilize in a slower twist than the 75gr A-max?

9 or faster,IIRC.
 
If a friend knocked on my door and said, "Lets go shoot some pd's, ground hogs, or whatever, at 500-600 yards", and a 223 Rem was all I had to take, I'd try to shoot the heaviest and highest BC bullet that would work in my rifle.

Since the .224" 75 grain V-Max (BC = .435) is being tossed around, with a 200 yard zero and a very realistic 2600 FPS muzzle velocity from a 223 Rem, at 550 yards the bullet would drop @73.7 inches. Energy would be @436 ft-lbs. Sighted at 100 yards, the numbers would be 86.2" drop, and the same 436 ft-lbs.

In contrast, the 6MM 87 grain V-Max with a lesser BC (BC = .400) from a 6MM Rem with a conservative velocity of 2900 fps and a 200 yard zero, at 550 yards the bullet would drop @ 59.9". Energy would be 602 ft-lbs. Sighted at 100 yards, the numbers would be 69.2" drop, and the same 602 ft-lbs.

Barring economics concerns over how much powder is burned, which some people like to quote for an advantage of some sort, I'd grab the 6MM every time. And no matter what range the two rifles might be sighted in at, comparable delta numbers would still exist.

The point is this: There is more than one way to skin the old cat, and some definitely work better than others. And no cartridge becomes magical with just an increased barrel twist or with a bullet with a higher BC than someone might be shooting out of a different cartridge.

And instead of building a fast twist 22-250 or whatever, I'd opt for a standard 6MM or 243 Win that will already do what I want to do. And I'd still have standard twist 223's and 22-250's to do what they do best. Options and choices.



 
Since this thread was about .223s only and my AI'ed version is still a .223, I'll play....

My 75 A-max ,not V-max run right at 3000 fps .

Less powder, less barrel heat, less recoil, than the 243/6mm.

Run the numbers , I have.

The choice is clear for colony varmints at 500-600 yards.
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Now if I'm going to kill hundreds and hundreds in the 50-350 , normal "ave Joe" range. Give me a 50gr Vmax blistering fast and watch the red mist show !!
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Originally Posted By: ninehorsesThat is my problem, I did the math, and the 69's don't gain much advantage until you pass 500 yards.

Around here, some consider 500 yards a "chip shot."
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(Not me, though.)
 
I run my 75 Amaxes right at 3000 fps also. While I run 55 gr Vmaxes when I am fireforming. I run those at 3475 fps, they give a pretty good lift to the rats/ pdogs!
 
Given I'm a 243 nut myself. If you want true lift and chunks for the fun factor at close range, a 70 NBT at max FPS via 243win, can and will make a grown man giggle.
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Now back to the regular program.....
 
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