WIN!

If I had my FFL still I would think that in the block (4473) for identification under the state ID, I would annotate the GOA/NRA card #, photocopy it attach to the 4473 and it would be good to go. (treat it similar to selling to a Military member from out of state , the dealer uses the order assigning them to the state, it would be a similar work around).
(and Yes there has been a lot of changes since then, but the method for Military members has remained the same, but would it work is the answer)

This would be definitely be a a test case, I would call and ask the dealer if a GOA / NRA membership would be the trump card. (I would suspect they won't know of not right off the bat it's early, and I'm sure BATFE hasn't a canned answer yet, as in provided the guidance to the dealers. SO they will be hesitate to do so. Until the guidance is provided telling them what will be required).

Sorry still thinking this through .... the injunction is against ATF ... but not against the state of Wisconsin so the state of Wi Could charge you , I don't know Wi state laws. So not sure that would be the case.
I do know when I was assigned the 90% of the dealers would not honor the military exception and refused to sell me anything. Even when I had a extra copy of orders assigning me there and a copy of the ATF guidance in hand. Which at that time My FFL was expired so I couldn't go that route.
 
Last edited:
Great discussion and a big kudo to @Widow maker 223 for posting the link that person went down the rabbit hole. Actually very clearly. AND WAYYY better than I was attempting the same explanation.

Now when I looked at the Silence Shop page it showed that MT and GA still required a form 4 (depicted via Silencer shop map as a blue state meaning Form 1 /4 was still required). BUT the AG of both of those states was a Co-plaintiff you say . HHuh??? One would assume that covers those citizens... Short answer no it covers the Government / employees (as in some form of LEO) of the respective states.
Both state laws are tied to complete adherence to the NFA act. Meaning registry aka Form 4 and/or Form 1.

AG's don't write laws the legislative does and Governor's sign them.

Why would I look at them well I was actually wondering what about Montana because I generally hunt Gophers there so that will determine a couple of things there being a Arkansas Resident. (I don't get to yell a exception to MT laws folks, just like hunting if the state requires a license it means I need to obtain one. The same for being within their boundaries with a NFA Item. (The key distinction is the form 1/4 is the get outta jail free card for every state regardless of local laws when passing through, not as the destination)

So briefly skimming MT laws there is specific language in their laws that Montana statute notes that possessing an unregistered silencer or short-barreled firearm is prima facie evidence of an "unlawful purpose". In other words If a local sheriff or state game warden inspects your SBR or suppressor in the field and you cannot provide proof of active federal NFA registration, Montana state law allows prosecutors to automatically presume you possess it for criminal intent.

SOOOO I have to adhere to the laws of Montana if I hunt there. That means to me THAT I MUST HAVE A FORM 1/4 on hand to hunt there with a suppressor or SBR. So in a nut shell I have to visit the laws of the state my feet are in. This is simple ONLY take those items I have a form 1/4 for if I cross that states boundaries. Whether hunting or not. so what does this mean to Mike. Easy I have can and SBRs that I do have Form1 / 4 for those would be the ONLY ones I would take. So while I can go down to the shop today and do a can on the 4473 I'll be good for Arkansas but I better not travel with it through at state that the laws that don't mimic AR. Especially If my destination is to a state such as MT or GA. Passing through GA to say go to FL yeah I "Should" be covered per sea. My personal choice is to err on the safe side if I buy one with just the 4473 only travel in and through the red states (that the laws are mimicking AR). Meaning if I want to go to FL that I need to enter FL via AL. Bypassing Ga, and MS . And return the same way, better safe than sorry. While the win does open up a big can of worms even if some of us are in those states that allows purchasing it's when traveling is the issue.
 
Last edited:
Sgt_Mike said:
Great discussion and a big kudo to @Widow maker 223 for posting the link that person went down the rabbit hole. Actually very clearly. AND WAYYY better than I was attempting the same explanation.

Now when I looked at the Silence Shop page it showed that MT and GA still required a form 4 (depicted via Silencer shop map as a blue state meaning Form 1 /4 was still required). BUT the AG of both of those states was a Co-plaintiff you say . HHuh??? One would assume that covers those citizens... Short answer no it covers the Government / employees (as in some form of LEO) of the respective states.
Both state laws are tied to complete adherence to the NFA act. Meaning registry aka Form 4 and/or Form 1.

AG's don't write laws the legislative does and Governor's sign them.

Why would I look at them well I was actually wondering what about Montana because I generally hunt Gophers there so that will determine a couple of things there being a Arkansas Resident. (I don't get to yell a exception to MT laws folks, just like hunting if the state requires a license it means I need to obtain one. The same for being within their boundaries with a NFA Item)

So briefly skimming MT laws there is specific language in their laws that Montana statute notes that possessing an unregistered silencer or short-barreled firearm is prima facie evidence of an "unlawful purpose". In other words If a local sheriff or state game warden inspects your SBR or suppressor in the field and you cannot provide proof of active federal NFA registration, Montana state law allows prosecutors to automatically presume you possess it for criminal intent.

SOOOO I have to adhere to the laws of Montana if I hunt there. That means to me THAT I MUST HAVE A FORM 1/4 on hand to hunt there with a suppressor or SBR. So in a nut shell I have to visit the laws of the state my feet are in. This is simple ONLY take those items I have a form 1/4 for if I cross that states boundaries. Whether hunting or not. so what does this mean to Mike. Easy I have can and SBRs that I do have Form1 / 4 for those would be the ONLY ones I would take. So while I can go down to the shop today and do a can on the 4473 I'll be good for Arkansas but I better not travel with it through at state that the laws that don't mimic AR. Especially If my destination is to a state such as MT or GA. Passing through GA to say go to FL yeah I "Should" be covered per sea. My personal choice is to err on the safe side if I buy one with just the 4473 only travel in and through the red states (that the laws are mimicking AR). Meaning if I want to go to FL that I need to enter FL via AL. Bypassing Ga, and MS . And return the same way, better safe than sorry. While the win does open up a big can of worms even if some of us are in those states that allows purchasing it's when traveling is the issue.
Click to expand...
This is going to create a PIA for some people. Hopefully it goes nation wide, but its the same thing as state gun laws.

So if your a GOA member and bought a pistol from PSA and live n a free state you can throw a stick on it !! If im not dislexing out
 
22magnum22 said:
All these required forms are federal forms and so my question is, are some states being discriminated against? Why not blanket coverage for all?
Click to expand...
It comes down to state laws, they do what they want, same goes for fed law against weed, but its legal in some states. Same as my state is a free state, no carry permit required, If I go to commynoise I'm a felon.
 
DOJ: We respectfully request you accept and abide by the letter penned by Congressmen Andrew Clyde and Steve Daines; applying the Federal Texas gun rights ruling nationwide.
1786642910902.png
 
While I'm excited that this ruling came down and that the DOJ didn't appeal, I can't help but think this is a trap being set that will spring in the very near future. The rapid dogs out there haven't gotten their rabies shots and they will becoming after the 2A and it's adherents. Most likely with a renewed sense of self-righteousness...
I plan on buying 2 more cans, but I'm watching for the trap.
 
Sprinkman said:
I plan on buying 2 more cans, but I'm watching for the trap.
Click to expand...

Well I did go and buy one today....
Walked in the shop a few min after they opened. Asked the owner "are you transferring on 4473?" he answers "no" goes to explain I kind of stop him with "hey it doesn't matter if on form 4, or however we do a lawful transfer I came here to buy today" and "If I was in your shoes I would do the same thing until guidance is given out". I just need my photo updated. He grinned big as if to say thank you. Next words out of my mouth was "Hey I need to discuss the one I'll pick out with Joshia". So he let's Joshia knows In walks a steady stream of folks all the same question "can I buy on a 4473?" Now the whole shop is holding Q&A and instead of listening they HAVE to ask individually. 5 Hours later is when Joshia could finally get to me to pick the can out and we start the transfer again a crowd comes in mid process halting it. Now it takes another hour to finally get everything completed and paid. 6 hours to buy a can. Because of those customers walking in and asking the same question interrupting my purchase. I suspect for the next 2 weeks it will be the same probably or worse. To beat all NONE of them bought anything not even a magazine.

Yes mine is on a form 4.
Yes I will have a wait. I have no issues. I am exactly good with the whole form 4 process. Am I upset with the shop? No not at all. And yes there was some that was there to pick up cans that had been approved so yes naturally I did let them in front of me.

In closing my personal view is while it would be great as a option (4473). And even if the shop was doing on just the 4473 I would have asked if they could do form 4. Yes I have my reasons and @Sprinkman hit partially on it.

"All these required forms are federal forms and so my question is, are some states being discriminated against? Why not blanket coverage for all?"

The dealer is WELL within his rights to dictate, I was not discriminated against. I'm not in the 5th circuit I'm in the 8th circuit. While there maybe some relief later once the guidance from ATF is given out. But until then I cannot get upset with a man whom is protecting his business, even if he decides NOT to do it I can't make him sell me a item. Nor can the 5th circuit , dealers are NOT a part of the ATF nor DOJ.

Edit to add:
Oh I did not mention the Dealer I went to was a powered by Silencer Shop dealer. The other thing I didn't cover was they was on the phone in the background trying to get something in writing to cover them.
 
Last edited:
WHEN things are not clear as glass and there is a way to fall into a pothole, I always refer to "Murphy's Law". I have better things to do and spend time and money on than legal battles, because I'm living in a State that still requires Form 4.

With that being said I found out a couple days ago there is a SB 214 that deals with this issue BUT, it hasn't been passed into law YET. So, I wrote my Congressman, Senator, and speaker of the house and ask them to support SB214. I suspect this Bill will pass at some point and pave the way for 4473
 
if this holds and silencer / suppressors are no longer an NFA item, there wouldnt even be a need for any form to fill out if they just stop putting serial numbers on them.

they arent firearms, they are an accessory, like a different stock, or a trigger upgrade.
 
𝐃𝐎𝐉 𝐎𝐅𝐅𝐈𝐂𝐈𝐀𝐋 𝐏𝐔𝐒𝐇𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐓𝐎 𝐑𝐄𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐒𝐄 𝐒𝐔𝐏𝐏𝐑𝐄𝐒𝐒𝐎𝐑 𝐖𝐈𝐍 𝐖𝐀𝐒 𝐁𝐀𝐂𝐊𝐄𝐃 𝐁𝐘 𝐑𝐔𝐒𝐒𝐈𝐀𝐆𝐀𝐓𝐄 𝐇𝐎𝐀𝐗𝐄𝐑 𝐑𝐎𝐒𝐄𝐍𝐒𝐓𝐄𝐈𝐍
Federalist CEO Sean Davis says a senior Justice Department official is working behind the scenes to k!ll the biggest 2nd Amendment win in decades. Davis identified 𝐁𝐫𝐞𝐭𝐭 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐦𝐚𝐭𝐞, who runs the DOJ’s Civil Division, as the internal force pushing to appeal the court ruling that ended mandatory suppressor registration — and drag gun owners back under a paperwork regime that’s stood since 1934.
According to Davis, Shumate is trying to 𝐤𝐧𝐢𝐟𝐞 𝐆𝐮𝐧 𝐎𝐰𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐀𝐦𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐚, 𝐏𝐚𝐥𝐦𝐞𝐭𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐀𝐫𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐲, 𝐒𝐢𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐫 𝐒𝐡𝐨𝐩, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝟐𝐧𝐝 𝐀𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭 itself, working to reverse a ruling gun owners waited nearly a century to win.
Here’s the twist: Shumate landed his post with help from 𝐑𝐨𝐝 𝐑𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐢𝐧 — the former deputy attorney general who appointed Robert Mueller and unleashed the Russia collusion hoax on the Trump White House. Rosenstein signed a 2025 letter urging the Senate Judiciary Committee to confirm him.
A source close to Trump wasn’t shy about it, telling Davis: “𝘞𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘧***𝘸𝘪𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘙𝘰𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘪𝘯’𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘨𝘦𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘧𝘪𝘳𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘢 𝘫𝘰𝘣 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘛𝘳𝘶𝘮𝘱 𝘢𝘥𝘮𝘪𝘯?”
𝐑𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐢𝐧 𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐧𝐭 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐃𝐎𝐉 𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐞𝐫 𝐠𝐨𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐓𝐫𝐮𝐦𝐩. 𝐍𝐨𝐰 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐩𝐢𝐜𝐤𝐞𝐝 𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐲 𝐢𝐬 𝐠𝐨𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐠𝐮𝐧 𝐫𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭𝐬.
 
he must be an okay guy and rosenstein must be back in Trumps good graces if he was helpful in getting shumate his job in Trumps administration
 
alf said:
𝐃𝐎𝐉 𝐎𝐅𝐅𝐈𝐂𝐈𝐀𝐋 𝐏𝐔𝐒𝐇𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐓𝐎 𝐑𝐄𝐕𝐄𝐑𝐒𝐄 𝐒𝐔𝐏𝐏𝐑𝐄𝐒𝐒𝐎𝐑 𝐖𝐈𝐍 𝐖𝐀𝐒 𝐁𝐀𝐂𝐊𝐄𝐃 𝐁𝐘 𝐑𝐔𝐒𝐒𝐈𝐀𝐆𝐀𝐓𝐄 𝐇𝐎𝐀𝐗𝐄𝐑 𝐑𝐎𝐒𝐄𝐍𝐒𝐓𝐄𝐈𝐍
Federalist CEO Sean Davis says a senior Justice Department official is working behind the scenes to k!ll the biggest 2nd Amendment win in decades. Davis identified 𝐁𝐫𝐞𝐭𝐭 𝐒𝐡𝐮𝐦𝐚𝐭𝐞, who runs the DOJ’s Civil Division, as the internal force pushing to appeal the court ruling that ended mandatory suppressor registration — and drag gun owners back under a paperwork regime that’s stood since 1934.
According to Davis, Shumate is trying to 𝐤𝐧𝐢𝐟𝐞 𝐆𝐮𝐧 𝐎𝐰𝐧𝐞𝐫𝐬 𝐨𝐟 𝐀𝐦𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐚, 𝐏𝐚𝐥𝐦𝐞𝐭𝐭𝐨 𝐒𝐭𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐀𝐫𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐲, 𝐒𝐢𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐜𝐞𝐫 𝐒𝐡𝐨𝐩, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝟐𝐧𝐝 𝐀𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐝𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭 itself, working to reverse a ruling gun owners waited nearly a century to win.
Here’s the twist: Shumate landed his post with help from 𝐑𝐨𝐝 𝐑𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐢𝐧 — the former deputy attorney general who appointed Robert Mueller and unleashed the Russia collusion hoax on the Trump White House. Rosenstein signed a 2025 letter urging the Senate Judiciary Committee to confirm him.
A source close to Trump wasn’t shy about it, telling Davis: “𝘞𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘰𝘧 𝘧***𝘸𝘪𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘬𝘴 𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘙𝘰𝘴𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘪𝘯’𝘴 𝘴𝘶𝘱𝘱𝘰𝘳𝘵 𝘵𝘰 𝘨𝘦𝘵 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘧𝘪𝘳𝘮𝘦𝘥 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘢 𝘫𝘰𝘣 𝘪𝘯 𝘢 𝘛𝘳𝘶𝘮𝘱 𝘢𝘥𝘮𝘪𝘯?”
𝐑𝐨𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐭𝐞𝐢𝐧 𝐬𝐩𝐞𝐧𝐭 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐃𝐎𝐉 𝐜𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐞𝐫 𝐠𝐨𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐓𝐫𝐮𝐦𝐩. 𝐍𝐨𝐰 𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐝𝐩𝐢𝐜𝐤𝐞𝐝 𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐲 𝐢𝐬 𝐠𝐨𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐲𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐠𝐮𝐧 𝐫𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭𝐬.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be surprised.
 
Back
Top