Smackem223
New member
Originally Posted By: OldTurtle
WTSHTF what are you doing to prepare...tips,tactics,strategies
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Rocky1
New member
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleQuote:I believe in being prepared and as self-sufficient as possible in a WTSHTF scenario. My family and friends will come first, but anyone who is willing to be a productive member of the group would be welcome to join me as we try to put our lives back together following a natural disaster or other SHTF scenario. Don't get me wrong, I will protect myself and my own from those who would try to take it, but I think for the most part that would be a small percentage of unscrupulous people who would try to take advantage of a bad situation.
While there are individuals that will try to go any disaster alone and some will succeed, this thread was initially about preparedness and it's just my point of view that part of being prepared is acknowledging where your personal short comings/weaknesses happen to be and pairing up with other like minded individuals that have assets and strengths that you lack...as long as you have something positive to bring to the group...
As said previously, in my old neighborhood (home town), our group consisted of a doctor, three teachers, grocery owner, carpenter, mechanical jack of all trades (also owned some heavy equipment), and service station owner/mechanic....All were capable of providing knowledge and skills in a variety of areas...most of which were life sustaining to a degree when put together..Just as important is the knowledge that at the drop of a hat, each would make themselves available for the good of the group...
The stockpiling of goods and supplies, while necessary in the short term, is mild in comparison to the results of a harmonious group effort toward a single goal... Survival in a potentially secure environment..
In the event of a disaster, whether natural or man made, there are three basic types of individuals that will be in existence,,,
A) those that strike out on their own or in a group to plunder what they need,
B) those that have a workable plan and basically isolate themselves individually or in a homogeneous group, and
C) those that stand around waiting for the government to 'save' them, but are too uneducated to fend for themselves in the most basic of areas..
Most of us would have no problem with a willingness to assist others that are 'known' quantities, but in a survival situation, unless that 'outsider' could be a serious asset, I would have to exercise some extreme caution in even allowing initial close contact..
You left out the bartender and the gals with really big hooters oleturtle!
While there are individuals that will try to go any disaster alone and some will succeed, this thread was initially about preparedness and it's just my point of view that part of being prepared is acknowledging where your personal short comings/weaknesses happen to be and pairing up with other like minded individuals that have assets and strengths that you lack...as long as you have something positive to bring to the group...
As said previously, in my old neighborhood (home town), our group consisted of a doctor, three teachers, grocery owner, carpenter, mechanical jack of all trades (also owned some heavy equipment), and service station owner/mechanic....All were capable of providing knowledge and skills in a variety of areas...most of which were life sustaining to a degree when put together..Just as important is the knowledge that at the drop of a hat, each would make themselves available for the good of the group...
The stockpiling of goods and supplies, while necessary in the short term, is mild in comparison to the results of a harmonious group effort toward a single goal... Survival in a potentially secure environment..
In the event of a disaster, whether natural or man made, there are three basic types of individuals that will be in existence,,,
A) those that strike out on their own or in a group to plunder what they need,
B) those that have a workable plan and basically isolate themselves individually or in a homogeneous group, and
C) those that stand around waiting for the government to 'save' them, but are too uneducated to fend for themselves in the most basic of areas..
Most of us would have no problem with a willingness to assist others that are 'known' quantities, but in a survival situation, unless that 'outsider' could be a serious asset, I would have to exercise some extreme caution in even allowing initial close contact..
You left out the bartender and the gals with really big hooters oleturtle!
mark williams
New member
. "Greed is what built and runs this country. It doesn't matter that you have all YOU need, if your neighbor has more, you NEED more than he does. Take his stuff."
Yep" An that is what Geronimo said,Greed would be the fall of the White man,
Grand maw use to say"If enough is plenty then why do you want more than enough"?
Something to think about.
Yep" An that is what Geronimo said,Greed would be the fall of the White man,
Grand maw use to say"If enough is plenty then why do you want more than enough"?
Something to think about.
HunterBear71
New member
OT looks like he is well prepared to survive any calamity.
Originally Posted By: redeyeddawg
I'll play Jeffo-
1. Greed is what built and runs this country. It doesn't matter that you have all YOU need, if your neighbor has more, you NEED more than he does. Take his stuff.
Or you can vote with the teachers unions and have the Democrats take it for you.
2. Look at the natural disasters in the past few years. Looting, raping, robbery. Same goes for unpopular court decisions (Rodney King). Many, many people are looking for opportunities to get something that doesn't belong to them. No ethics, morals, just easy stuff - and since everyone else is doing it, it's ok. Gang mentality. I see it a lot.
Most always perpetrated by government schooled Democrat voters.
3. Helping out is only ok if the people you are helping have the same mindset as you do. As ignorant as it may be.
They are the ones who appreciate it. The rest think you owe it to them. See 1&2.
4. If someone comes knocking at your door, ask them to identify themselves. If they have an accent, especially Mexican, shoot them.
Ask them first for their immigration papers. If they don't have any, then shoot them. This will reduce the number of Democrat voters also.
5. Above all, pull your kids out of public school now! Teach them to shoot, skin, gut, chew, and spit. Helping anyone except your "own kind" is a travesty.
What fool would have their kids in there to begin with? They will be indoctrinated on wealth distribution, open borders, how to riot (community organizing)and most of all to ALWAYS vote Democrat.
Thanks for being a sport. Response to your answers.
1. Greedy democrats own this country.
2. Plenty of studies to prove this. Most stopped during the looting to fill out a survey.
3. Why weren't they prepared?
4. Ok, I'll give you that.
5. Partly right.
I'll play Jeffo-
1. Greed is what built and runs this country. It doesn't matter that you have all YOU need, if your neighbor has more, you NEED more than he does. Take his stuff.
Or you can vote with the teachers unions and have the Democrats take it for you.
2. Look at the natural disasters in the past few years. Looting, raping, robbery. Same goes for unpopular court decisions (Rodney King). Many, many people are looking for opportunities to get something that doesn't belong to them. No ethics, morals, just easy stuff - and since everyone else is doing it, it's ok. Gang mentality. I see it a lot.
Most always perpetrated by government schooled Democrat voters.
3. Helping out is only ok if the people you are helping have the same mindset as you do. As ignorant as it may be.
They are the ones who appreciate it. The rest think you owe it to them. See 1&2.
4. If someone comes knocking at your door, ask them to identify themselves. If they have an accent, especially Mexican, shoot them.
Ask them first for their immigration papers. If they don't have any, then shoot them. This will reduce the number of Democrat voters also.
5. Above all, pull your kids out of public school now! Teach them to shoot, skin, gut, chew, and spit. Helping anyone except your "own kind" is a travesty.
What fool would have their kids in there to begin with? They will be indoctrinated on wealth distribution, open borders, how to riot (community organizing)and most of all to ALWAYS vote Democrat.
Thanks for being a sport. Response to your answers.
1. Greedy democrats own this country.
2. Plenty of studies to prove this. Most stopped during the looting to fill out a survey.
3. Why weren't they prepared?
4. Ok, I'll give you that.
5. Partly right.
ExpertMarksman
New member
He left the Bank, calmly walked next door to Hooters, took a seat, ordered a good meal, ate it, then left.
A few minutes after his departure after leaving a big tip, the FBI showed up with the pics from the Security cameras to ask if the Hooter's waitresses had seen this guy!
They giggled and said something like "he went thataway"!
Hooters is one of the best most profit making Franchises in the world!
GEE! I wonder why!
Good hunting!
Last edited:
ExpertMarksman
New member
In the next life, I wouldn't be averse to being with Chief Geronimo!
Hoooooah!
NM Leon
New member
1. Greed is what built and runs this country. It doesn't matter that you have all YOU need, if your neighbor has more, you NEED more than he does. Take his stuff.
I'd say it's as much envy as greed, but yep, at least if you are a socialist/communist/Democrat/progressive. Heck our own anointed president/messiah said: “I do think at a certain point you've made enough money” and believes strongly in the re-distribution of other people's wealth.
I vaguely remember someone right here saying: "Take it from the wealthy - they can afford it easily." when presented with the prospect of having his own wages and benefits reduced down to somewhere nearer (but still above) those of his taxpayer employers.
2. Look at the natural disasters in the past few years. Looting, raping, robbery. Same goes for unpopular court decisions (Rodney King). Many, many people are looking for opportunities to get something that doesn't belong to them. No ethics, morals, just easy stuff - and since everyone else is doing it, it's ok. Gang mentality. I see it a lot.
And don't forget to look at the examples of people helping others in those same natural disasters. People on the scene giving physical help, neighbors cooperating to protect their neighborhoods, and millions of people giving freely of money/clothes/etc (that's FREELY, not because they were coerced by the government).
3. Helping out is only ok if the people you are helping have the same mindset as you do. As ignorant as it may be.
See above. When I donate money to the Red Cross for tsunami relief in S.E.Asia, or to the Salvation Army for Katrina, I don't know and don't care what the ultimate recipient's mindset is.
4. If someone comes knocking at your door, ask them to identify themselves. If they have an accent, especially Mexican, shoot them.
If someone comes to the door wanting to join me and/or our group in a WTSHTF situation, my concern would be what skills they would bring to the group not what accent they had. A doctor, carpenter, blacksmith, probably yes. An office worker, or public school teacher, probably no.
5. Above all, pull your kids out of public school now! Teach them to shoot, skin, gut, chew, and spit. Helping anyone except your "own kind" is a travesty.
Once again you show your liberal tactics by equating a completely rational animus against the government school system to a racist/prejudiced mind set. Kind of the way your liberal/progressive friends have for years been inferring that anyone who disagrees with them is racist and or greedy (or worse).
Been here a while. Good luck.
By the way, I can spit with the best of them. Shoot too. They keep me around to have a common enemy. Justifies their posts somehow. Once again, let the assualt begin.
Nobody is "keeping you around" jeffo, you are here by your own choice and will be welcome as long as you continue to stay within the TOS.
Since you have so many years as a teacher, I imagine under the typical "last in first out" union rules your job will be safe too, though many of your "brothers and sisters" will be S.O.L. no matter their skill level.
I'd say it's as much envy as greed, but yep, at least if you are a socialist/communist/Democrat/progressive. Heck our own anointed president/messiah said: “I do think at a certain point you've made enough money” and believes strongly in the re-distribution of other people's wealth.
I vaguely remember someone right here saying: "Take it from the wealthy - they can afford it easily." when presented with the prospect of having his own wages and benefits reduced down to somewhere nearer (but still above) those of his taxpayer employers.
2. Look at the natural disasters in the past few years. Looting, raping, robbery. Same goes for unpopular court decisions (Rodney King). Many, many people are looking for opportunities to get something that doesn't belong to them. No ethics, morals, just easy stuff - and since everyone else is doing it, it's ok. Gang mentality. I see it a lot.
And don't forget to look at the examples of people helping others in those same natural disasters. People on the scene giving physical help, neighbors cooperating to protect their neighborhoods, and millions of people giving freely of money/clothes/etc (that's FREELY, not because they were coerced by the government).
3. Helping out is only ok if the people you are helping have the same mindset as you do. As ignorant as it may be.
See above. When I donate money to the Red Cross for tsunami relief in S.E.Asia, or to the Salvation Army for Katrina, I don't know and don't care what the ultimate recipient's mindset is.
4. If someone comes knocking at your door, ask them to identify themselves. If they have an accent, especially Mexican, shoot them.
If someone comes to the door wanting to join me and/or our group in a WTSHTF situation, my concern would be what skills they would bring to the group not what accent they had. A doctor, carpenter, blacksmith, probably yes. An office worker, or public school teacher, probably no.
5. Above all, pull your kids out of public school now! Teach them to shoot, skin, gut, chew, and spit. Helping anyone except your "own kind" is a travesty.
Once again you show your liberal tactics by equating a completely rational animus against the government school system to a racist/prejudiced mind set. Kind of the way your liberal/progressive friends have for years been inferring that anyone who disagrees with them is racist and or greedy (or worse).
Been here a while. Good luck.
By the way, I can spit with the best of them. Shoot too. They keep me around to have a common enemy. Justifies their posts somehow. Once again, let the assualt begin.
Nobody is "keeping you around" jeffo, you are here by your own choice and will be welcome as long as you continue to stay within the TOS.
Since you have so many years as a teacher, I imagine under the typical "last in first out" union rules your job will be safe too, though many of your "brothers and sisters" will be S.O.L. no matter their skill level.
ExpertMarksman
New member
IF you need a Proof Reader or Editor, I work for 'cookies'!
Good hunting!
Rocky1
New member
Originally Posted By: OldTurtle I'll be my own bartender,,,
At least the Wild Turkey and the Makers Mark are in big bottles!
Originally Posted By: OldTurtle
and the gals with the really big hooters would only lead me to an early grave...
...and I thought this was about survival...
Yeah me too, but what a way to go!
Originally Posted By: OldTurtle
and the gals with the really big hooters would only lead me to an early grave...
Yeah me too, but what a way to go!
Longbarrel
New member
2. Look at the natural disasters in the past few years. Looting, raping, robbery. Same goes for unpopular court decisions (Rodney King). Many, many people are looking for opportunities to get something that doesn't belong to them. No ethics, morals, just easy stuff - and since everyone else is doing it, it's ok. Gang mentality. I see it a lot.
There will be a differant kind of law in the wilderness / woods.... LOOTERS,RAPIST,ROBBERS,& UN-POPULAR JUDGES well lets just say they will be wearing shoe-shoes in HE((......
4. If someone comes knocking at your door, ask them to identify themselves. If they have an accent, especially Mexican, shoot them.
(If there at the front door it already to late ) Someone failed to put out sentrys , BAD MOVE ! ( There's an old saying nobody love's a soldier till the enemy's on the doorstep ) If there on your doorstep you better hope theres one or two shooters in the treeline....O'h and that DOOR-BELL its a CLAYMORE..... NUFF-SAID
There will be a differant kind of law in the wilderness / woods.... LOOTERS,RAPIST,ROBBERS,& UN-POPULAR JUDGES well lets just say they will be wearing shoe-shoes in HE((......
4. If someone comes knocking at your door, ask them to identify themselves. If they have an accent, especially Mexican, shoot them.
(If there at the front door it already to late ) Someone failed to put out sentrys , BAD MOVE ! ( There's an old saying nobody love's a soldier till the enemy's on the doorstep ) If there on your doorstep you better hope theres one or two shooters in the treeline....O'h and that DOOR-BELL its a CLAYMORE..... NUFF-SAID
Originally Posted By: ExpertMarksman
assualt
is ACTUALLY Properly spelled ASSAULT! If you took more care with your Postings, it would be easier to take you seriously.
IF you need a Proof Reader or Editor, I work for 'cookies'!
Good hunting!
What a stupid response. One typo in ten years. Not bad. Shall we start to judge the value of others' posts based on spelling? How about the overuse of exclamation points? Or capitalizing? I don't need a "Proof Reader or Editor". You need to start editing other posts. That should last you a lifetime.
IF you need a Proof Reader or Editor, I work for 'cookies'!
Good hunting!
What a stupid response. One typo in ten years. Not bad. Shall we start to judge the value of others' posts based on spelling? How about the overuse of exclamation points? Or capitalizing? I don't need a "Proof Reader or Editor". You need to start editing other posts. That should last you a lifetime.
doggin coyotes
Well-known member
jumprightinit
New member
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleQuote:You left out the bartender and the gals with really big hooters oleturtle I'll be my own bartender,,,
and the gals with the really big hooters would only lead me to an early grave...
...and I thought this was about survival...
Pretty good stockpile
I just inherited a unopened bottle of Old Fitzgerald 100 proof, bottled in 1961. It'll be a cold day before I open that .
and the gals with the really big hooters would only lead me to an early grave...
Pretty good stockpile
SuperCavScout
New member
This has been what I have worked on since being introduced to a Mr. Ben Raines and his group of rebels back in 1988. (If you are familiar with him, then you are a brother)
Taking Control of a Small Town or County
For the Purpose of Establishing a Unique
Survival Community - In Good Times & Bad.
Why Survival Groups Start, and How They Fail
The problem most survivalists face regarding their goal of self-reliance usually boils down to limited financial resources. We can obtain the knowledge we need to survive for little or no cost, thanks to the interne, but when it comes down to purchasing the tools and supplies, few of us have cash enough to cover every scenario - or the space to store what we might acquire.
Enter Survival groups, Co-Ops and Communities. In theory, these are great ideas. Those of us who have attempted it however can tell you that the theory simply doesn't hold up. While costs are reduced, it is still prohibitively expensive - even foregoing the more technological niceties like X-ray or MRI machines and dental facilities.
While land may be found for the "perfect" retreat, it's never really perfect for every member of the group. People need to live where they can make a living. Chances are, wherever you locate a retreat, it's not going to be conducive for everyone to live there - or even near there - while the world continues to somehow muddle through with life as usual.
A successful group would need members covering an astounding spectrum of practical and technological knowledge and capabilities to survive catastrophic events, but many necessary specialties inherently lead their practitioners to dismiss and/or disdain the self-reliant or survival philosophy. You just can't find enough of them who recognize the value of our way of life to risk the peer pressure they would experience if it became known they were affiliated with us. It doesn't matter why this is so - it just is.
Then there are the personality problems that arise within every survival group. Issues of leadership and control, delegation of duties, religious and philosophical differences, racial and lifestyle hang-ups. The list is endless and tends to result in group dissolution or the type of extreme exclusivity that can only diminish the long-term survivability of any group which remains.
Finally, should the worst of catastrophes occur, there is a minimum number of people necessary to repopulate a nation (or world) without risking genetic degeneration. Sure, we all know that even the worst scenario posits a huge number of vagabond survivors - but what are you going to do with them, supposing you are even able to find them? How are you going to feed them, clothe them, house them, direct and control them?
In any civilization ending event, it simply will not be possible for most survival groups to withstand the onslaught of the unprepared survivors. Just because they are foolishly failing to prepare does not mean they are intellectually stupid. The world is filled with nasty little toys that may be used to breach your defenses, but there is only a three week supply (at best!) of food. You can bet that these desperate survivors will eventually be knocking at your door. You just can't get isolated enough that someone isn't going to find you - not in this or most countries.
Things As They Are...
Unless you are a hermit who's sole connection to the rest of the civilized world consists of a laptop and a satellite hook-up (I know there's a few of you out there), then you, like myself, live in a community of some sort. You go to work each day and have tens, hundreds or even thousands of acquaintances - few (if any) with whom you share your concerns, the details of your preparations, or your dedication to the self-reliant survival philosophy.
You recognize that most of these folks are good people just trying to get by in an increasingly difficult and complex society. No matter how many friends and acquaintances you have, though, you still feel something of an outsider. You struggle to maintain a positive outlook amidst a sea of mediocrity as you watch these folks chase "the good life" without a care for the possible consequences of their lack of preparation. You see a society increasingly dependent upon the government for more and more aspects of their private lives, and adamant that the government come to their rescue in times of peril or the aftermath thereof. You witness a government only too happy to comply - failing miserably - yet gaining more and more control over your life at the behest of those who cannot or will not control their own.
Much as those of our ilk hate to admit, there is a certain amount of interdependence required to maintain a civilized lifestyle in today's world. No matter how self reliant or how well prepared each of us becomes, the world is too compartmentalized, too manipulated, controlled, and too crowded to fend for your own in all but the most basic manner. Your independence is fragile in that it is a target of derision now - and will be a target of desire should things get out of hand. Your chances of standing against those who have nothing and want what is yours are basically slim to none.
But...
What if you could live in a city or a county entirely populated by independent, self-reliant folks who shared your survival philosophy? What if this city or county was governed with this philosophy in mind, was capable of being defended - both strategically and logistically - from even the largest horde? What if this city or county was capable of supporting it's Citizens at almost the same standard of living you experience today (if not better), entirely independent of the outside world regardless of what may come?
What if it was absolutely free to join this community, provided you had the wherewithal to simply move there?
Things As They Could Be ...
To the best of my knowledge, such a place doesn't exist - but to a greater degree, it could. Certainly it would be difficult to exclusively populate a county with survivalists, but it would be entirely feasible to politically dominate such a county with a self-reliant dedicated core of individuals and families adhering to the survivalist philosophy.
According to the 2008 estimate of the total US population (300+ million), 220,602,975 of them were of voting age. Of this total, 67.6 were registered to vote. In 2008 63.8 percent of the registered voters voted in the Presidential election, while only 47.8 of them voted in the 2006 non-Presidential elections. Of those who vote, 99% of them vote for one of the two parties (split pretty much evenly), with the remaining 1% going to some third party.
So What?
In a community of 30,000, using the above voter demographics, this means about 74% are of voting age - 22,200. Of this number, only 67.6% can be expected to register to vote - 15,007. Of the registered voters, only a maximum of 63.8 percent will exercise their right to vote - 9575. Finally, of this voting block, only 50% can be expected to voted for any one or group of candidates - 4788 votes. (Only 3587 votes during non-Presidential elections and even fewer people turn out for, or pay attention to, local elections.)
This means that a dedicated voting block of 5,000 (maximum) voters should be able to win any election from the indigenous population, easily, during Presidential election years. Half that number would be enough to sway any result. During non Presidential and local elections, half that number would probably be enough to win and a mere 10% enough to sway any election result.
Always assuming that the right community could be found, and that this community could absorb the influx of an additional 5,000 voting age survival types (and their families), this community could become a better alternative to joining the standard survival group. Think about it - a complete infrastructure already in place, including the necessary non-survival oriented professional types, all gathered together in a neat package. With some gentle guidance, the non-survival types could easily be led to improve the survivability of the community without ever suspecting the reasoning or goals behind what changes might need to be made.
If the survival group wanted to, they could take over political control of the community in a matter of 2-10 years, depending upon the government structure, by dominating the elections. If they were to keep their survivalist affiliations secret, no one (except perhaps the incumbents) would even care. It would simply be "politics as usual," only this time the other guy won.
5000 Survivalists in ONE Community?
Sure. Why not? If the community is somewhat rural (which is what you want, anyway), then most of the folks living there are, basically, unacknowledged survivalists already. They may not call themselves "survivalists," but you can bet there are more self-reliant Citizens living there who are prepared to weather whatever common local perils tend to present themselves. If you don't make a point of being a dedicated survivalist, you will probably fit right in - better even than the weekenders, second homeowners and drive-by city dwellers that visit.
Chances are, in a rural community of this size, at least some of them ARE going to be dedicated survivalists. They simply may not have connected with each other. With the influx of similar minded folk, they are likely to appreciate and welcome the company (I know I would).
The beauty of this concept is that it is essentially no different than the way you are living now, except that it is in a more secure (and potentially much more secure) location. All it takes is moving there, finding a place to live and obtaining employment or starting/moving your own business. In a vibrant enough community, this is much easier than dealing with the headaches of joining a small (or even a large) survival group. It is something you can do on your own without needing to rely on a group of others to complete successfully. There are no personality conflicts and no leadership or trust issues to deal with. No contracts to sign, or other legal issues to deal with. No paranoia about the government (or anyone else) watching your group.
In the event of a catastrophe, you'll already be there, secure, with nothing to pack, nowhere to head for, and no traffic/mobs/checkpoints/hazards, etc. to contend with. What good is a ton of gear and ten-year-shelf-life food going to do if you have to try and pack it all up for the move to your group's survival site? Even if you stored your gear at the survival site - who's going to guarantee that you and your family will ever reach the site or, having reached it, that those already there are going to actually admit you in? This concept eliminates the need for financing big-ticket survival gear and provides a storehouse of goods (everything in town, basically) available in the event of a civilization ending catastrophe. It also eliminates the concern over paying membership fees and dues to someone you don't know or wondering what you are getting for the money you've spent.
Wouldn't it be better to be living at your survival destination already, with all your preparations in your own home? Your own home versus a campsite or a bunk in a shelter of questionable design or construction. Your own community where you know the terrain versus an unfamiliar, possibly destitute or hostile area. Friends, neighbors and fellow survivalists that you have grown to know and trust because you've lived and worked with and among them versus people you've rarely met and barely know aside from internet chats and the occasional face to face.
Once established in the community, members might take advantage of employee discounts available to fellow members as well as wholesale pricing to member business owners. In good times, the uninitiated are helping to maintain and improve community services. They are providing you with jobs, income, services and/or customers for your own business. In bad times, they will be looking to YOU for leadership, and they will be available to utilize for both maintenance and defense. The only time you might have to worry is when you are travelling outside your community.
Where to Find Such a Community
Likely, every state has one or more candidates - you just have to find them, The criteria are pretty simple:
Rural location, at least 50-100 miles from MAJOR metropolitan area
Limited access capable of being monitored & controlled, or denied
Has sufficient quantities of water LOCALLY & local water treatment plant
Has local waste/sewer treatment facilities (bonus for bio-conversion plants)
Has independent power supply, or capability to generate power locally without outside materials
Has a local modern hospital, ambulance service, dental offices, medical laboratories
Has local fire and police departments & equipment (bonus if allow for volunteer forces)
Has local primary and secondary schools (bonus for local college facilities)
Has local library with technical (how to/how things work) and research sections [hardcopy]
Has local radio/television broadcast facilities capable of transmission and reception (inc. satellite)
Has a local economy sufficient to support survivalist influx
Has a number of retail shops for food, clothing, household goods, sporting goods, building supplies
Has firearms and ammunition shops
Has arable land (for farming) and viable wildlife population (hunting & fishing)
Has active farmers/ranchers with stock & equipment
Has active local building contractors with heavy equipment
Has local indoor & outdoor meeting places (for community voting/discussion/etc.)
Has local entertainment facilities (essential for mental health)
Has relatively mild weather or emergency contingencies (safe buildings/areas) for known hazards
Has little or no recurrent history of natural disaster
Has emergency contingencies (safe buildings/areas) for known recurrent hazards.
Not downstream of major/multiple dams and reservoirs (or, at least, not in the flood plain)
Not directly in the path of concentrated fallout (ash - burning cities, volcanic, nuclear)
Above catastrophic flood levels from hurricane, tsunami, meteor/asteroid/comet strike
Not a potential (or previous) target for hostile direct attack
No likely near-miss potential from a deliberate attack
Not situated in an obvious evacuation path (unless you are SURE access can be diverted/denied - and HELD)
Bonus for local National Guard/Army Reserve Armory
Bonus for grain silo's
Bonus for local breweries/distilleries
Bonus for operating cannery/bottler
Bonus for local (small scale) manufacturing
Bonus for mills/lumber yards
Bonus for local quarry w/cement facilities
Bonus for local highway department with road maintenance equipment
Bonus for pre-existing large-scale alternative energy usage (wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, etc.)
Bonus for fly-in/out local airfield with aircraft parking & maintenance facilities
Bonus for local mineral and petroleum sources (with equipment for recovery)
Bonus for temporary/long term underground shelters
With all, or most, of these capabilities, such a community should be capable of surviving anything short of a direct hit/attack. You can't plan for chance, but you can plan to optimize your chances.
While it seems like a big list to fill, such places do exist to a greater or lesser degree. I know, because I live in one. It's why I've lived here since 1998. It was quite a bit smaller ten years ago, but has filled out nicely. There is room for more. It meets ALL of the above criteria - including all but two or three of the bonuses (armory, large scale alt. energy, and maybe the silo's) - and then some.
With over 300 days of sunshine each year, the county should be blanketed in solar, but it's not. With readily available geothermal capabilities, only a few commercial and residential examples exist. With all the steady winds we get, few windmills exist. I believe this is due to the local environmentalist lobbies and a local government more interested in catering to the ski & tourist industries than the welfare of their citizenry.
So How Do You Start Things Rolling?
Obviously, someone has to find a place that meets as many of the above criteria as possible and move there. Then they need to get the word out to nearby survivalists interested. Those who are interested and capable of moving there should then do so and set up whatever support group they can to assist others in their move. A 10-15% influx of survivalists (to the current local population) should be enough to exert dominant political control, but as little as 2% influx could change things radically in the self-reliant survivalists' favor.
Curiously, the hardest part will be getting the new survivalist members to become politically active in the community. Most survivalists that I know are fiercely independent and private individuals who shun the notoriety of public displays of... darned near anything. Though preferable, it isn't absolutely necessary to take control of the administration of the government of your new home. If you infiltrate/integrate with the business community, the medical, police, fire and emergency services communities, and vote as a concerted block at every opportunity, things may be directed satisfactorily. Or, at least, kept in check.
Independently, the new survival community members should develop emergency and catastrophic contingency plans. If it seems likely they will be adopted by the powers that be, then the plans may be submitted (anonymously, if necessary) to them. Many areas will already have these plans - or similar ones - on record, or held confidentially. It never hurts to duplicate their efforts, however. They're not survivalists.
You should guide the community (gently!) to adopt measures that result in completion of the criteria list, above. If gentle persuasion does not prove sufficient, you may need to either make it happen independently (expensive, but possibly lucrative), or run for office. It's okay to let the liberals and palm-squeezers run things as long as they run things the way you need them to. A good idea is to enlist the aid of a survival-minded social scientist and/or pick the mind of a sympathetic psychologist for tips on manipulating your "representative government" into believing they are doing what they want for their own reasons. Remember, force is always resisted. It is easier to find reasons for them to agree to - or even suggest - the changes you need, than it is to force them to make these changes.
Taking Control of a Small Town or County
For the Purpose of Establishing a Unique
Survival Community - In Good Times & Bad.
Why Survival Groups Start, and How They Fail
The problem most survivalists face regarding their goal of self-reliance usually boils down to limited financial resources. We can obtain the knowledge we need to survive for little or no cost, thanks to the interne, but when it comes down to purchasing the tools and supplies, few of us have cash enough to cover every scenario - or the space to store what we might acquire.
Enter Survival groups, Co-Ops and Communities. In theory, these are great ideas. Those of us who have attempted it however can tell you that the theory simply doesn't hold up. While costs are reduced, it is still prohibitively expensive - even foregoing the more technological niceties like X-ray or MRI machines and dental facilities.
While land may be found for the "perfect" retreat, it's never really perfect for every member of the group. People need to live where they can make a living. Chances are, wherever you locate a retreat, it's not going to be conducive for everyone to live there - or even near there - while the world continues to somehow muddle through with life as usual.
A successful group would need members covering an astounding spectrum of practical and technological knowledge and capabilities to survive catastrophic events, but many necessary specialties inherently lead their practitioners to dismiss and/or disdain the self-reliant or survival philosophy. You just can't find enough of them who recognize the value of our way of life to risk the peer pressure they would experience if it became known they were affiliated with us. It doesn't matter why this is so - it just is.
Then there are the personality problems that arise within every survival group. Issues of leadership and control, delegation of duties, religious and philosophical differences, racial and lifestyle hang-ups. The list is endless and tends to result in group dissolution or the type of extreme exclusivity that can only diminish the long-term survivability of any group which remains.
Finally, should the worst of catastrophes occur, there is a minimum number of people necessary to repopulate a nation (or world) without risking genetic degeneration. Sure, we all know that even the worst scenario posits a huge number of vagabond survivors - but what are you going to do with them, supposing you are even able to find them? How are you going to feed them, clothe them, house them, direct and control them?
In any civilization ending event, it simply will not be possible for most survival groups to withstand the onslaught of the unprepared survivors. Just because they are foolishly failing to prepare does not mean they are intellectually stupid. The world is filled with nasty little toys that may be used to breach your defenses, but there is only a three week supply (at best!) of food. You can bet that these desperate survivors will eventually be knocking at your door. You just can't get isolated enough that someone isn't going to find you - not in this or most countries.
Things As They Are...
Unless you are a hermit who's sole connection to the rest of the civilized world consists of a laptop and a satellite hook-up (I know there's a few of you out there), then you, like myself, live in a community of some sort. You go to work each day and have tens, hundreds or even thousands of acquaintances - few (if any) with whom you share your concerns, the details of your preparations, or your dedication to the self-reliant survival philosophy.
You recognize that most of these folks are good people just trying to get by in an increasingly difficult and complex society. No matter how many friends and acquaintances you have, though, you still feel something of an outsider. You struggle to maintain a positive outlook amidst a sea of mediocrity as you watch these folks chase "the good life" without a care for the possible consequences of their lack of preparation. You see a society increasingly dependent upon the government for more and more aspects of their private lives, and adamant that the government come to their rescue in times of peril or the aftermath thereof. You witness a government only too happy to comply - failing miserably - yet gaining more and more control over your life at the behest of those who cannot or will not control their own.
Much as those of our ilk hate to admit, there is a certain amount of interdependence required to maintain a civilized lifestyle in today's world. No matter how self reliant or how well prepared each of us becomes, the world is too compartmentalized, too manipulated, controlled, and too crowded to fend for your own in all but the most basic manner. Your independence is fragile in that it is a target of derision now - and will be a target of desire should things get out of hand. Your chances of standing against those who have nothing and want what is yours are basically slim to none.
But...
What if you could live in a city or a county entirely populated by independent, self-reliant folks who shared your survival philosophy? What if this city or county was governed with this philosophy in mind, was capable of being defended - both strategically and logistically - from even the largest horde? What if this city or county was capable of supporting it's Citizens at almost the same standard of living you experience today (if not better), entirely independent of the outside world regardless of what may come?
What if it was absolutely free to join this community, provided you had the wherewithal to simply move there?
Things As They Could Be ...
To the best of my knowledge, such a place doesn't exist - but to a greater degree, it could. Certainly it would be difficult to exclusively populate a county with survivalists, but it would be entirely feasible to politically dominate such a county with a self-reliant dedicated core of individuals and families adhering to the survivalist philosophy.
According to the 2008 estimate of the total US population (300+ million), 220,602,975 of them were of voting age. Of this total, 67.6 were registered to vote. In 2008 63.8 percent of the registered voters voted in the Presidential election, while only 47.8 of them voted in the 2006 non-Presidential elections. Of those who vote, 99% of them vote for one of the two parties (split pretty much evenly), with the remaining 1% going to some third party.
So What?
In a community of 30,000, using the above voter demographics, this means about 74% are of voting age - 22,200. Of this number, only 67.6% can be expected to register to vote - 15,007. Of the registered voters, only a maximum of 63.8 percent will exercise their right to vote - 9575. Finally, of this voting block, only 50% can be expected to voted for any one or group of candidates - 4788 votes. (Only 3587 votes during non-Presidential elections and even fewer people turn out for, or pay attention to, local elections.)
This means that a dedicated voting block of 5,000 (maximum) voters should be able to win any election from the indigenous population, easily, during Presidential election years. Half that number would be enough to sway any result. During non Presidential and local elections, half that number would probably be enough to win and a mere 10% enough to sway any election result.
Always assuming that the right community could be found, and that this community could absorb the influx of an additional 5,000 voting age survival types (and their families), this community could become a better alternative to joining the standard survival group. Think about it - a complete infrastructure already in place, including the necessary non-survival oriented professional types, all gathered together in a neat package. With some gentle guidance, the non-survival types could easily be led to improve the survivability of the community without ever suspecting the reasoning or goals behind what changes might need to be made.
If the survival group wanted to, they could take over political control of the community in a matter of 2-10 years, depending upon the government structure, by dominating the elections. If they were to keep their survivalist affiliations secret, no one (except perhaps the incumbents) would even care. It would simply be "politics as usual," only this time the other guy won.
5000 Survivalists in ONE Community?
Sure. Why not? If the community is somewhat rural (which is what you want, anyway), then most of the folks living there are, basically, unacknowledged survivalists already. They may not call themselves "survivalists," but you can bet there are more self-reliant Citizens living there who are prepared to weather whatever common local perils tend to present themselves. If you don't make a point of being a dedicated survivalist, you will probably fit right in - better even than the weekenders, second homeowners and drive-by city dwellers that visit.
Chances are, in a rural community of this size, at least some of them ARE going to be dedicated survivalists. They simply may not have connected with each other. With the influx of similar minded folk, they are likely to appreciate and welcome the company (I know I would).
The beauty of this concept is that it is essentially no different than the way you are living now, except that it is in a more secure (and potentially much more secure) location. All it takes is moving there, finding a place to live and obtaining employment or starting/moving your own business. In a vibrant enough community, this is much easier than dealing with the headaches of joining a small (or even a large) survival group. It is something you can do on your own without needing to rely on a group of others to complete successfully. There are no personality conflicts and no leadership or trust issues to deal with. No contracts to sign, or other legal issues to deal with. No paranoia about the government (or anyone else) watching your group.
In the event of a catastrophe, you'll already be there, secure, with nothing to pack, nowhere to head for, and no traffic/mobs/checkpoints/hazards, etc. to contend with. What good is a ton of gear and ten-year-shelf-life food going to do if you have to try and pack it all up for the move to your group's survival site? Even if you stored your gear at the survival site - who's going to guarantee that you and your family will ever reach the site or, having reached it, that those already there are going to actually admit you in? This concept eliminates the need for financing big-ticket survival gear and provides a storehouse of goods (everything in town, basically) available in the event of a civilization ending catastrophe. It also eliminates the concern over paying membership fees and dues to someone you don't know or wondering what you are getting for the money you've spent.
Wouldn't it be better to be living at your survival destination already, with all your preparations in your own home? Your own home versus a campsite or a bunk in a shelter of questionable design or construction. Your own community where you know the terrain versus an unfamiliar, possibly destitute or hostile area. Friends, neighbors and fellow survivalists that you have grown to know and trust because you've lived and worked with and among them versus people you've rarely met and barely know aside from internet chats and the occasional face to face.
Once established in the community, members might take advantage of employee discounts available to fellow members as well as wholesale pricing to member business owners. In good times, the uninitiated are helping to maintain and improve community services. They are providing you with jobs, income, services and/or customers for your own business. In bad times, they will be looking to YOU for leadership, and they will be available to utilize for both maintenance and defense. The only time you might have to worry is when you are travelling outside your community.
Where to Find Such a Community
Likely, every state has one or more candidates - you just have to find them, The criteria are pretty simple:
Rural location, at least 50-100 miles from MAJOR metropolitan area
Limited access capable of being monitored & controlled, or denied
Has sufficient quantities of water LOCALLY & local water treatment plant
Has local waste/sewer treatment facilities (bonus for bio-conversion plants)
Has independent power supply, or capability to generate power locally without outside materials
Has a local modern hospital, ambulance service, dental offices, medical laboratories
Has local fire and police departments & equipment (bonus if allow for volunteer forces)
Has local primary and secondary schools (bonus for local college facilities)
Has local library with technical (how to/how things work) and research sections [hardcopy]
Has local radio/television broadcast facilities capable of transmission and reception (inc. satellite)
Has a local economy sufficient to support survivalist influx
Has a number of retail shops for food, clothing, household goods, sporting goods, building supplies
Has firearms and ammunition shops
Has arable land (for farming) and viable wildlife population (hunting & fishing)
Has active farmers/ranchers with stock & equipment
Has active local building contractors with heavy equipment
Has local indoor & outdoor meeting places (for community voting/discussion/etc.)
Has local entertainment facilities (essential for mental health)
Has relatively mild weather or emergency contingencies (safe buildings/areas) for known hazards
Has little or no recurrent history of natural disaster
Has emergency contingencies (safe buildings/areas) for known recurrent hazards.
Not downstream of major/multiple dams and reservoirs (or, at least, not in the flood plain)
Not directly in the path of concentrated fallout (ash - burning cities, volcanic, nuclear)
Above catastrophic flood levels from hurricane, tsunami, meteor/asteroid/comet strike
Not a potential (or previous) target for hostile direct attack
No likely near-miss potential from a deliberate attack
Not situated in an obvious evacuation path (unless you are SURE access can be diverted/denied - and HELD)
Bonus for local National Guard/Army Reserve Armory
Bonus for grain silo's
Bonus for local breweries/distilleries
Bonus for operating cannery/bottler
Bonus for local (small scale) manufacturing
Bonus for mills/lumber yards
Bonus for local quarry w/cement facilities
Bonus for local highway department with road maintenance equipment
Bonus for pre-existing large-scale alternative energy usage (wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, etc.)
Bonus for fly-in/out local airfield with aircraft parking & maintenance facilities
Bonus for local mineral and petroleum sources (with equipment for recovery)
Bonus for temporary/long term underground shelters
With all, or most, of these capabilities, such a community should be capable of surviving anything short of a direct hit/attack. You can't plan for chance, but you can plan to optimize your chances.
While it seems like a big list to fill, such places do exist to a greater or lesser degree. I know, because I live in one. It's why I've lived here since 1998. It was quite a bit smaller ten years ago, but has filled out nicely. There is room for more. It meets ALL of the above criteria - including all but two or three of the bonuses (armory, large scale alt. energy, and maybe the silo's) - and then some.
With over 300 days of sunshine each year, the county should be blanketed in solar, but it's not. With readily available geothermal capabilities, only a few commercial and residential examples exist. With all the steady winds we get, few windmills exist. I believe this is due to the local environmentalist lobbies and a local government more interested in catering to the ski & tourist industries than the welfare of their citizenry.
So How Do You Start Things Rolling?
Obviously, someone has to find a place that meets as many of the above criteria as possible and move there. Then they need to get the word out to nearby survivalists interested. Those who are interested and capable of moving there should then do so and set up whatever support group they can to assist others in their move. A 10-15% influx of survivalists (to the current local population) should be enough to exert dominant political control, but as little as 2% influx could change things radically in the self-reliant survivalists' favor.
Curiously, the hardest part will be getting the new survivalist members to become politically active in the community. Most survivalists that I know are fiercely independent and private individuals who shun the notoriety of public displays of... darned near anything. Though preferable, it isn't absolutely necessary to take control of the administration of the government of your new home. If you infiltrate/integrate with the business community, the medical, police, fire and emergency services communities, and vote as a concerted block at every opportunity, things may be directed satisfactorily. Or, at least, kept in check.
Independently, the new survival community members should develop emergency and catastrophic contingency plans. If it seems likely they will be adopted by the powers that be, then the plans may be submitted (anonymously, if necessary) to them. Many areas will already have these plans - or similar ones - on record, or held confidentially. It never hurts to duplicate their efforts, however. They're not survivalists.
You should guide the community (gently!) to adopt measures that result in completion of the criteria list, above. If gentle persuasion does not prove sufficient, you may need to either make it happen independently (expensive, but possibly lucrative), or run for office. It's okay to let the liberals and palm-squeezers run things as long as they run things the way you need them to. A good idea is to enlist the aid of a survival-minded social scientist and/or pick the mind of a sympathetic psychologist for tips on manipulating your "representative government" into believing they are doing what they want for their own reasons. Remember, force is always resisted. It is easier to find reasons for them to agree to - or even suggest - the changes you need, than it is to force them to make these changes.
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If I lived in a big city this would be more of a real question for me. I live on the out skirts of a small town with no big city nearby. Doing the best I can with available resources makes sense, going somewhere else, mostly not so much.
SuperCavScout
New member
Most of us that went thru alot of the hooah schools are like minded anyway. It will be one of the alphabet soup agencies (DEA, ATFE, FBI, etc...) that you would have to worry about .Even though we are Ranger/Sniper/Pathfinder trained...I don't have my green beret, broke my leg during the language phase of all things. Most of the guys I know wouldn't follow that order to get someone's guns. It's an unlawfull order anyway. Ask any soldier to recite their oath of enlistment, what is the first thing we swear alliegence too?
SuperCavScout
New member
Living on the outskirts of a small town with no big city nearby, you are already in a better position WSHTF than most other people. I know most won't be able to relocate, but it is the best option (in my view) than having to get and outfit a BOV and then fight the hoards on a jammed road somewhere.
HunterBear71
New member
The spelling sheriff hasn't mastered sentence structure. He does know how to use spell check.