yotes found, help needed

P

pitcher31

New member
Hey guys, i thank you all for all your help and hints, i wanted to get out and try most of them before i got on and started askin more questions.
My problem is i'm gettin skunked, and in the last few weeks, i've only heard 1 group of callin, but i know they got downwind of me and then left right away. The opportunity is, i have a buddy who live s on a farm here in southwest pa. We along wiht our state game commission passed an antler restiction law this year, and the rule is that each buck must have 3 pt's on each side. Now, there were alot of deer killed this year and left to lay, and as the PA Game Commision has worried, there have been an abundant amount of yotes, comin and styaing inot the area, seeing that we have a massize deer population. Now that you sorta have a feel for what i'm trying to say, this friend of mine has been seeing a group of 6 yotes on a fairly regular basis. Thtye have been hanging out roughly 500 yards behind his barn and have been howling everynight. He doe snot hunt them, and with a golden opportunity like this, i don't want to mess it up wiht the first hunt, can anyone help me out wiht a few suggestions on how to approach and hunt the yotes wihtout spookin them......which calls would work best around barn's and other close land marks? how far away from the hosue should i hunt, or on the other sides of teh field or wood lots? any info you guys can hlpe me wiht would be greatly appreciated

thanks
 
I wouldn't call at them at all.

Why even alert them??????

I would park my ass in one of your buddies out buildings, and wait them out, and just pick them off. Hopefully your in an area that allows centerfires to reach out a little bit. If not I would use an in-line muzzleloader. Rimfire is a tad weak to reliably kill a coyote.

I kind of doubt their feeding on deer carcasses. Roadkill maybe, but once the carcass freezes they tend to avoid it if possible, when other food is available. Their snooping around your buddies farm for a reason. If he has dogs or cats, your buddy may be feeding more than just his pets.
 
Pitcher31,
You will need to walk out away from the farm buildings 1/4 mile or so. Calling coyotes toward a source of danger is iffy at best. Pick a calling stand that is overlooking some good small game cover. Weed patches, spring runs, weedy fence rows and anywhere that rabbits & game birds love to hole up will be daytime hangouts for coyotes. Keep the wind in your face, or call in crosswind. Stay on stand for at least twenty minutes while calling. Coyotes do in fact love deer meat. A dead deer probably won't last more than a couple of days in good coyote country. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Hodgen,
No disrespect here, but what could you learn from calling predators by simply attempting to pot shoot them as you suggested? Learn to call them and you can hunt coyotes anywhere much more successfully, rather than hope to simply spot the odd one out and about somewhere/sometime. What's the old saying about teaching a man to fish rather than simply giving him a fish for a day?

It seems as if this is a perfect opportunity to really learn how to hunt them. First, you know there are coyotes there. That is probably the most (if not THE most, then certainly one of the most) important things about coyote hunting. Can't catch fish in a fishless pond. So this is a huge advantage to begin with, knowing there are coyotes in the area.

Second this will be an opportunity to discover how coyotes relate to the terrain in the area. Think this through carefully when choosing a place to set-up. Rich gave you some good idea's of places to consider for the set-up. Keep the wind direction and terrain/travel routes in mind when preparing for the set-up. Also, think of how you're going to get into the area without being seen, heard, or most importantly, smelled.

Third, have your call selection and sounds thought through ahead of time. Be prepared and ready to sit motionless and quietly. Think about the choice of firearm, shotgun or rifle? Know what you're best with and what the cover dictates as best. If a shotgun is chosen, make sure you've patterned it with large shot (BB/BBB/4 Buck) and know it's capabilities well.
I once called five coyotes into an overgrown field with me. Seemed like an ideal set-up. Until I realized that I couldn't see the dang things as they circled me in the tall grass. A glimpse of fur here, ears there, one at less than fifteen yards. The bolt action rifle and 3x9x40 scope seemed pretty useless at the time. My Benelli semi-auto .12 gauge would have left one or two on the ground with me. Of course they went downwind, spooked, then skeedaddled back up the mountain ridge where they proceeded to yap how foolish they thought I was. I've made (and still do) plenty of mistakes and can pass on a few hoping that others can learn from my antics in the field.

I would venture a guess here that the first time you attempt to call these coyotes will give you your best odds of getting one. The chances will go down everytime after that, unless you give them a couple of three weeks or so and go at them slightly different. Good luck, let us know how it goes for you.
 
Your post say's they are there every night. My question is how do thye get there? That should be yours as well.A little walking the ground isn't going to spook them. After all the snow and rain of the past few days it should be pretty easy to spot some sign somewhere.I have to say I'm with GC on this one. Take the time and oportunity to learn how your locals move. Look closely at what is alnog those places for your use in set up.See what is close by you can use to your advantage. LOOK it over and plan your assualt well, then go in there and take a few. Once you've done this your odds of repeating it go up a great deal.Jimmie
 
No offense taken GC.

The man asked how to deal with this particuler situation in Pennsylvania.

After hunting coyotes in Pennsylvania, New York, North Carolina, Montana, Wyoming, Nevada, California, and Arizona. Plus calling for fun in Wisconsin and a few other states.

I stand behind everything I have told him.
Right down to the coyotes not feeding on frozen deer carcasses IF there is an easier food source available.

If I were even to attempt calling them, I would still sit in one of the out buildings, and perhaps use a kitten in distress played softly.

Calling coyotes in PA and NY is kind of unique.
Using "coyote hunting 101" tactics isn't going to produce a whole lot of success. Until a person experiences PA, he won't believe it.

Let us know what works pitcher 31. We will all be anxiously awaiting your results....... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Wishbone,

Coyotes are opportunistic feeders. Everyone knows that. If the coyotes are stacking up at this guys farm it's for a reason. It could be they are waiting on feed he is giving to his stock, or dog and cat food. It could be butchering scraps or household garbage. They may even be feeding on the rodents that are commonly found around barns and out buildings.

Once cold weather hits, the coyotes don't seem to exert any extra effort than neccesary when there is an alternate food sourse.

From what I have seen over the years here, coyotes will feed on carcasses when fresh killed. If their froze, they walk right on by. It's real easy to see in the snow. The ground doesn't lie. I am not sure why. Maybe it's because it takes alot of energy to try and consume them, or maybe they don't like ingesting frozen stuff. Kind of like getting cold from the inside out. Beats me, but thats the way it is around here.

I was out in California in November. We hunted a river bed that was loaded with rodent, rabbits, birds, and just about everything else. But the coyotes we killed, and all the scat we saw on the ground, was loaded with pistachios. Go figure????

After hunting/calling a variety of states and terrain, I have no idea why PA is the way it is. It could be the human population. It could be food supply available. It could be anything. But PA and NY are unique when it comes to calling coyotes.

The game commision here recently did a study. They caught and collered a bunch of fawns to study predation. What they found was, bears did most of the killing on fawns. If I remember right, there was only about 4 fawns lost to coyotes.

I will say this. If this guy knocks them off their pattern by attempting to call them or scout them. He won't have a second chance. They'll just move to the next easy available food source nearby.
 
Pitcher,
Here is part of your original question----"We along wiht our state game commission passed an antler restiction law this year, and the rule is that each buck must have 3 pt's on each side. Now, there were alot of deer killed this year and left to lay, and as the PA Game Commision has worried, there have been an abundant amount of yotes, comin and styaing inot the area, seeing that we have a massize deer population."

Those deer that were killed by slob hunters and then left to rot are more than likely what is drawing those coyotes onto your friend's farm all of a sudden. I invite you to take a little stroll through that property and locate some of those dead deer. I think that you will find that they are being fed upon and their bones chewed on, just exactly as coyotes in Iowa, Missouri, nebraska, texas and anywhere else that coyotes find a good food source. Coyotes feed upon frozen cattle and hog piles all winter. There is no reason that they would not feed upon dead deer.

Calling from 200 yards or so downwind or crosswind of one of these large food sources will pay off in the form of a few dead coyotes. You can always sit in your buddy's hay barn on days when it is to stormy to go hunting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Hodgen,
I'm glad you could tell I wasn't trying to pick an arguement. My opinion is that a fellow who wants to learn to call could benefit from this scenario. Lot's of guys shoot a coyote while deer hunting or something similar, but to go out and consistently and successfully hunt and kill coyotes, IMHO, he should learn to call them. It's ton's more fun than pot shooting one. Once you get some experience, then as you obviously know, then you can take that and see some success in other locals.

Speaking of the pistacio's, I think coyotes are selective eaters and capatilize on all sorts of food stuffs when the opportunity presents itself. In that case the pistacio's were a seasonal delicacy. Much like persimmons are here. Find a persimmon tree in the late fall when the fruit has turned ripe and everything, I mean everything (!), in the woods are turned on to it. In fact, not just the woods. A family friend and my Dad a few years ago caught the mother lode of channel catfish from under a persimmon tree which was dropping fruit into the lake. Dad said it was like fishing in one of those stocked pay lakes! Catfish don't normally rely on persimmons year round, but when these sweet treats plopped into their habitat, they sure turned on to them in a hurry. Sure, they could catch a shad or bluegill, but being selective feeders they capatilized on this unusual seasonal treat.

Shortly after graduating college I worked for the Missouri Department of Natural Resources as a State Park Naturalist. One of the area state parks had a small section of Paw Paw trees. If you have no experience with Paw Paw's they're Ozark banana's. Only sweeter in taste. When the fruit of the Paw Paw tree dropped every critter in the woods was clustered around this little grove of trees. I guess animals have a sweet tooth too.

I hear out west that coyotes plague watermelon patches, eating only the sweetest melons and only the middle of the melon. Another seasonal delicasy. Could this explain the pistacio craze with the coyotes you ran across?
 
I have to back Hodgen up on this one.What he says is no B.S.If this guy truly wants to bag a PA coyote other than happening along one during deer season,he should do what Hodgen tells him.If he trys to call them from a few hundred yards away from the barn buildings,and slips up just one millimeter.The coyotes are history,and on to their next easy available food source.He will not get a second chance on that property for a while.

I know calling one in to a call is much more exciting and harder to do than waiting in a building for an ambush.But your percentage rate for success is much higher doing it this way.

Also on the frozen carcass issue.I have seen first hand, coyotes ignore frozen cow carcasses for weeks on end.For some reason the PA yote is not interested in frozen food,please beleive me,this is true.In my opinion,to much easily ready food available for them.Less energy spent,than trying to rip apart a concrete hard carcass.

*Pacoyotenut*
 
GC,

What you said about "sweet tooths" is correct.
Only problem is, PA is a candy store for these coyotes. And it isn't frozen deer carcasses. Although you do get the occasional response to a distress call, they are not reliable. Those coyotes are stacked up on that farm for an easy warm meal. My best guess would be, feed put out for the animals, or rodents that are feeding on the animal feed.

I have hunted alot of different states for coyotes. I can hunt my ass of here in PA & NY, and if you get a response once out of about 40 stands, you're doing dang good. But yet I can go out west or the middle part of the US, toot on a call, and the damn things run me over.

It's not a coyote population issue either. The coyotes are here. The ground doesn't lie.

I have hunted both sides of the fence so I have a pretty good idea what's goin on. The "coyote hunting 101" tactics are not productive. This guy would be much better off concentrating on "social behavior" but thats a little more of an advanced tactic.
 
One thing I know about coyote behavior is that it does not pass up a free meal unless it detects something wrong.Every carcass I found they passed up was poisoned and the farmer finally owned up to it. All farmers know this type of activity is illegal and the time they can spend as well as the fines are not worth letting a stranger, they don't really know all that well,know what they have done.

One thing we did try to emphasize in the sounds and tactics thread is that tactics will vary from region to region.What I am hearing from you fellows is a lack of confidence in yourselves for the most part.Those animals can be called on a somewhat regular basis once you learn how to set up in your region. All we can give any of you is the basics. Jimmie
 
Pitcher31,
The one biggest problem in trying to give a beginning caller good advice on a board such as this, is the occasional self proclaimed experts who follow up good advice with negative nonsense. Please read the calling sounds and tactics thread which I will bring back to the top for you to find. A coyote is a coyote regardless of where he may be found. Some are more wary or skittish than others because of human activity in their area. Coyotes in my area are harder to call than those in north texas for that very reason. The coyotes here are still just coyotes, and yours are too. The coyotes around here can be called, and so can yours. Guts, patience and a lot of work is the key. Good hunting there Pitcher and please don't give up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
First:
I will give pitcher my advice.
If you would prefer to call them in, rather then hunt over bait, this is what I would do.
Scout, and then I would scout somemore, try to find a pattern, a prefered travel route. I feel its a lot like turkey hunting, once you find there travel route you can set up accordingly. Its easier to call something your way when its already heading your way.
One other thing, be sure of your source. I have had many farmers say Yeah! I hear them yipping and howling down there every night. and come to find out "everynight" turns into a couple nights about a month ago, or last spring, etc.

For the record: I have also seen frozen deer passed by.

Second:
Believe me when I say, I do not want to start a east vs. west debate, BUT I have been coyote hunting for 7 years and in that time I have read MANY books, Mag. articles, and watched alot of video's, tried everything imaginable and its honest and truely not the same here as out west, maybe even the south. I'm not saying you can't call them in. I have called in a few, very few.
Last year, or the year before the PA game commission wrote an article on PA coyotes. In that article it stated that half our coyote population was harvested each year. I don't remember the numbers, but half the harvest was "accidental" kills by deer and bear hunters. The majority of the other half were taken with hounds. Only a very small percent of the harvest was taken while HUNTING(calling) coyotes. Its not because there is a lack of callers either.
There are a lot of coyote contest in PA every year and most of the coyotes checked in are taken with dogs. There is one real big contest that pays out around $8,500 and out of a few thousand hunters, only about 50 or 60 coyotes are killed.
I know a lot of people will read this and be thinking, Yeah,yeah a coyote's a coyote, its just not so.
I know of NO ONE in PA that can go out and consistently call in coyotes.
There is one guy from western PA who "claims" to consistently call in coyotes and he was floating around differant message boards last year boasting about how he killed 300 coyotes and bla,bla,bla. I only heard storys about this so I don't know the details, but when called out he vanished.

One more thing,
You may remember reading on these boards about a PA predator club starting up. Its off to a good start and I'm hosting a hunt in a few weeks at my cabin and anyone that thinks they can come east and show us what we are doing wrong, would be more than welcome.
I'm not trying to be a smart azz, I'am serious. The cabin is full, but if anyone would like to come out we could squezzzze in 1, 2 more at the most. there is a Inn a few miles down the road with rooms for $45.00 a night(2 single beds). There is 2 feet of fresh snow after this last storm, so you will need good boots and warm cloths.
The hunt is Jan. 17,18,19. If anyone is interested shoot me an e-mail
sparrow221@msn.com
 
Sorry,
I type so slow I missed the last two posts.

A couple questions.
Mr.Cronk said:
The one biggest problem in trying to give a beginning caller good advice on a board such as this, is the occasional self proclaimed experts who follow up good advice with negative nonsense.
Click to expand...
1: What makes someone on here an "expert"???
2: Who determines what's "good advice" and "negative nonsense"???

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Pa Tracker, I personally know of at least one farmer that went to some real extremes to get rid of a problem.When their livlihood is at stake nothing is outragous to the farmer.I've known a lot of farmers over the years and even knew a few that thumbed their nose at fish and game to take care of a problem.

Some coyotes even refuse to feed on a kill they do not make. No one knows why they just happen for whatever reason.

You even state your problems well. I can't find fault with fifty percent of the coyote harvest being as it is.Pressure is one of our biggest problems here in the east. It's something I have been putting up with for a couple of years now right here in my own back yard so to speak. Pressured animals are thehardest to take and deal with, yet I manage to take a few more behind another hunter even after he's worked the area to death. His latest trend is using the hell out of a howler and high pitched calls.How do I know you ask? I got barked at using a howler on the first time to a farm this season. I went back a week later with an oddball sounding mouth call and missed a dog not five hundred yards from where I ws barked at.Wind in my favor both times I was there.Had I set up for the kill and not my son's comfort that story would have a diferent ending. My MISTAKE!

I'm saying you need to take a more possitive aproach. By telling someone to get out and learn you are doing just that.I understand that gaining confidence in such an area isn't the easiest thing in the world to do. Modify anything you hear of . Be willing to think outside of hte norm.Constantly change things you try.For instance, learn what calls are sold locally.Then go wiht a completly diferetn type and pitch of sound. If everyone is using a closed reed then order a bite type or open reed.Jimmie
 
PA Tracker,good post!

First off,im not trying to start an argument with this thread.I think this is a great site,and i get alot of good info off of it.But......

The dead cow carcasses were not poisoned.Beleive it or not,i don't really care.As for a lack of confidence,i don't think so!When you experience first hand,and see it with your own eyes,you know what to beleive.

As for the self proclaimed expert remark.I don't know who it was directed at,but i never claimed to be an expert,and will tell ya im far from an expert on the coyote.

As for calling the PA coyote.Yes they can be called in.But with very very little success.I have called a few PA coyote's in before,but no where near as many i feel i should of compared to the number of stands it took.

As for the "coyote is a coyote is a coyote",i say not true!

Jimmie in KY and Rich,have either of you ever hunted in PA for the coyote? If yes,how was your success? Just curious.

I to own a hunting cabin in north central PA.If any of you western boys ever get to PA for any reason and want to do some coyote hunting,please look me up.I would love to see what im doing wrong,and also give ya a taste of PA yote hunting.

*Pacoyotenut*
 
Hey guys,

I live in Illinois, that's between east and west so maybe I'm the neutral...He He.

I've seen deer that were shot and froze that the coyotes wouldn't touch, at least until warmer weather. I've also seen frozen deer that were like a magnet for coyote, go figure! I'm thinking the only thing to expect from a coyote is the unexpected! Sure they will do almost the same every time no matter where you hunt, but you have to study them in their respective environments to truely know their behavior.

As for Rich Cronk, if you're new here and want to learn the art of calling, believe what he says. I've learned lots from his posts, Thanks Rich!
P.S. I just put together a deer horn call from Rich's directions in a post and have called in four coyote in the last two days, only one dead one though!

The best part of this forum is that you can read the differing info and make your own choice of what to use, then if that doesn't work try another way. I always take what I read and try to gain insight from all of it...good and bad!

I'll get out of this now, got to get my rest to go hunting in the morning, ha ha /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Nikonut
 
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