derbyacresbob
Well-known member
My favorite two California calling sounds are "bug distress" and "coyotes purging".
You get ONE predator caliber/gun.....
- Thread starter GeauxLSU
- Start date
RKR
Member
WOW, CV32 that is a fine pile of fur. All those big Northeastern coyotes shot with .22 centerfires. You would think that would speak for it self. I guess none has it as tough as sleddog and the 'yote are bigger and tougher where he lives.
Hey sledd its OK if people have a differing opinion than yours.......we get it!!!
Hey sledd its OK if people have a differing opinion than yours.......we get it!!!
sleddogg
New member
Quote:
Hey sledd its OK if people have a differing opinion than yours.......we get it!!!
Of course you can all have a different opion from me on calling calibers in the East. But then you would be wrong /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Shoot what works for you, your style, and terrain. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Hey sledd its OK if people have a differing opinion than yours.......we get it!!!
Of course you can all have a different opion from me on calling calibers in the East. But then you would be wrong /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Shoot what works for you, your style, and terrain. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
CV32
New member
Quote:
Thats nice CV32 , but I'm sure they were all taken out in the open, not it the forest. As stated over and over and over, if I lived and hunted in the open, my 221 Fireball would be the only coyote gun I need.
You're right, most of them were taken in open terrain (areas accessible pretty much only by skidoo in wintertime). I'm not sure how much "punch" has to do with terrain, though. I had understood you to be comparing so-called "dinky" Western coyotes with the big Northeastern ones, and citing that as a reason for a bigger cartridge.
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I hear hunting isn't too tough up there.
That wouldn't be a terribly accurate statement. Terrain varies widely, from dense forest to open bog and barrens. Its not too bad for finding big game (moose and caribou), but hunting predators is tough. Even on open ground, there aren't many places where the shrubbery doesn't go up to at least the knee, and often the waist. (Unless you can cover a LOT of terrain like the guys above with their skidoos).
Thats nice CV32 , but I'm sure they were all taken out in the open, not it the forest. As stated over and over and over, if I lived and hunted in the open, my 221 Fireball would be the only coyote gun I need.
You're right, most of them were taken in open terrain (areas accessible pretty much only by skidoo in wintertime). I'm not sure how much "punch" has to do with terrain, though. I had understood you to be comparing so-called "dinky" Western coyotes with the big Northeastern ones, and citing that as a reason for a bigger cartridge.
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I hear hunting isn't too tough up there.
That wouldn't be a terribly accurate statement. Terrain varies widely, from dense forest to open bog and barrens. Its not too bad for finding big game (moose and caribou), but hunting predators is tough. Even on open ground, there aren't many places where the shrubbery doesn't go up to at least the knee, and often the waist. (Unless you can cover a LOT of terrain like the guys above with their skidoos).
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RKR
Member
Of course you can all have a different opion from me (insert opinion of your choice here)…. But then you would be wrong /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Spoken like a true Mass. Democrat!!!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
Spoken like a true Mass. Democrat!!!!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
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Brian M - its not that the 223 is at all marginal on perfect hits. 223 kills 'em DRT on well placed hits.
BUT, in the East you are gonna have to go into the forest to kill dogs with any consistancy at all. That is a fact . Get a BIG coyote quartering into your calling at 60 yards, having to shoot through a tiny hole in the foliage before he gets downwind makes that perfect hit far and few between. You need some punch.
I've had more runners in 3 years with the 223 than 30+ with the 243.
With my 243 the quartering in 50 pounder that MUST be taken NOW on the point of the shoulder is no problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I stand by my experience......... 223 and under is a marginal Eastern gun.
Just out of curiousity . What bullets were you shooting in the .223 when you had the problems ? What bullets do you use in your .243 ?
Brian M - its not that the 223 is at all marginal on perfect hits. 223 kills 'em DRT on well placed hits.
BUT, in the East you are gonna have to go into the forest to kill dogs with any consistancy at all. That is a fact . Get a BIG coyote quartering into your calling at 60 yards, having to shoot through a tiny hole in the foliage before he gets downwind makes that perfect hit far and few between. You need some punch.
I've had more runners in 3 years with the 223 than 30+ with the 243.
With my 243 the quartering in 50 pounder that MUST be taken NOW on the point of the shoulder is no problem. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
I stand by my experience......... 223 and under is a marginal Eastern gun.
Just out of curiousity . What bullets were you shooting in the .223 when you had the problems ? What bullets do you use in your .243 ?
I use the AR-15 chambered in 223 for coyotes in the UP of MI. There are some good sized coyotes running aroud here. I hunt in the woods all of the time and usually alone. While I've had runners, the 223 usually does the job to my satisfaction. I will not use a rimfire of any caliber for coyotes. IMHO, it's just not acceptable for this use in this area. Either way, use whatever rifle/caliber makes YOU happy. MI VHNTR
Snowshoes
Well-known member
-I used a 6mm Rem. for a few years ( to many hides had some major sewing though)
-I probably shot more coyotes with a .223 than all other calibers combined
-I have used a 22-250 for the last 6 years (Love this caliber with 45 gr hollow points)
-I picked up a 17 FB this summer and will give it a try for my calling set ups this fall/winter.
-Butttt.... if I could only have one predator rifle it would be a 22-250.
-I probably shot more coyotes with a .223 than all other calibers combined
-I have used a 22-250 for the last 6 years (Love this caliber with 45 gr hollow points)
-I picked up a 17 FB this summer and will give it a try for my calling set ups this fall/winter.
-Butttt.... if I could only have one predator rifle it would be a 22-250.
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I use a 223 all the time for coyotes. Never had to track one yet. I dont even own a 243... Also have killed them with a 17HMR, which isnt supposed to kill them... huh...
chuck308, this leads me to know you haven't had much action. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Got to call BS on this one. PM me please, and I'll give you my phone # so I can meet a hunter that is so accomplished. Always have an open mind to learn new things. I imagine you are just another bait/field guy shooting a couple dogs a year.
If you are the real deal I will appologize on this forum.
How about some pics of the coyotes you kill "all the time" here in Massachusetts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Seems odd, as any time you blow a call around here, you have a chance an actual 50 pounder will show at any angle. Wouldn't want to miss that opportunity with my 17HMR or even a 223.
I'm smellin' newbie, internet expert here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif But I've been wrong before! Shoot me that PM so we can talk, as I love to learn new techniques for the Northeast.
I am not even going to respond to this tirade, except for the following: I am no newbie. I get plenty of action. I live in the Berkshires. I hunt in the woods, and in some open fields (I happen to live on a farm). I think you could have responded with a little more tact and way more respect for someone you don't even know.
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I use a 223 all the time for coyotes. Never had to track one yet. I dont even own a 243... Also have killed them with a 17HMR, which isnt supposed to kill them... huh...
chuck308, this leads me to know you haven't had much action. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Got to call BS on this one. PM me please, and I'll give you my phone # so I can meet a hunter that is so accomplished. Always have an open mind to learn new things. I imagine you are just another bait/field guy shooting a couple dogs a year.
If you are the real deal I will appologize on this forum.
How about some pics of the coyotes you kill "all the time" here in Massachusetts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif Seems odd, as any time you blow a call around here, you have a chance an actual 50 pounder will show at any angle. Wouldn't want to miss that opportunity with my 17HMR or even a 223.
I'm smellin' newbie, internet expert here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif But I've been wrong before! Shoot me that PM so we can talk, as I love to learn new techniques for the Northeast.
I am not even going to respond to this tirade, except for the following: I am no newbie. I get plenty of action. I live in the Berkshires. I hunt in the woods, and in some open fields (I happen to live on a farm). I think you could have responded with a little more tact and way more respect for someone you don't even know.
sleddogg
New member
Quote:
I am not even going to respond to this tirade, except for the following: I am no newbie. I get plenty of action. I live in the Berkshires. I hunt in the woods, and in some open fields (I happen to live on a farm). I think you could have responded with a little more tact and way more respect for someone you don't even know.
Yes Chuck that was quite harsh, and I appologize here, and have sent you a PM.
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Just out of curiousity . What bullets were you shooting in the .223 when you had the problems ? What bullets do you use in your .243 ?
Brian M - I guess the better question is what haven't I shot coyotes with in the 223. I hunted with it for 3 years, so believe I gave it a fair chance. I used 40 grain Nosler BT, 50, and 55 grain Vmax, 45, 50, 55, 60, and 65 grain SP and HP. I believe my best and most consistant results came from the Hornady 60 grain SP. But it takes me 3 seasons to call and kill as many coyotes as CV32 can in a weekend, so maybe the runners are just something that I'm not willing to put up with. If I had a coyote paradise, I'm sure I would care less about a few runners.
Brian M - Although I've shot a wide variety of projectiles from my 243, I keep coming back to the Sierra BTHP Gameking. That bullet just melts the coyotes at all angles, and has the extra athority to anchor dogs on the spot. Just breaks down those shoulders. No worries. This is important to me, as I shoot most coyotes facing me, or quartering in. If I'm lucky I will get an occassional broadside as they travel through the forest.
Another factor (at least for Notrheast guys) is you will call a bruiser every once in awhile. I'm just not felling too warm and fuzzy toting my 223 when you may have a coyote the size of a Labrador Retriever respond. Hate to get a run-off on such a huge animal.
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Of course you can all have a different opion from me (insert opinion of your choice here)…. But then you would be wrong
Spoken like a true Mass. Democrat!!!!
RKR, ya Ted Kennedy taught me that verbage while we were coyote hunting last year /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I looked at Remingtons tables and compared the .223 55grBT, the .220 Swift 50grPSP, and the .243 75grBT and came up with the following;
Muzzle 100 200 300 400
.223 1209 927 701 522 380
.220 Swift 1586 1107 760 506 325
.243 1897 1564 1282 1044 842
You can clearly see the huge advantage the 243 has over the 223.
I am not even going to respond to this tirade, except for the following: I am no newbie. I get plenty of action. I live in the Berkshires. I hunt in the woods, and in some open fields (I happen to live on a farm). I think you could have responded with a little more tact and way more respect for someone you don't even know.
Yes Chuck that was quite harsh, and I appologize here, and have sent you a PM.
Quote:
Just out of curiousity . What bullets were you shooting in the .223 when you had the problems ? What bullets do you use in your .243 ?
Brian M - I guess the better question is what haven't I shot coyotes with in the 223. I hunted with it for 3 years, so believe I gave it a fair chance. I used 40 grain Nosler BT, 50, and 55 grain Vmax, 45, 50, 55, 60, and 65 grain SP and HP. I believe my best and most consistant results came from the Hornady 60 grain SP. But it takes me 3 seasons to call and kill as many coyotes as CV32 can in a weekend, so maybe the runners are just something that I'm not willing to put up with. If I had a coyote paradise, I'm sure I would care less about a few runners.
Brian M - Although I've shot a wide variety of projectiles from my 243, I keep coming back to the Sierra BTHP Gameking. That bullet just melts the coyotes at all angles, and has the extra athority to anchor dogs on the spot. Just breaks down those shoulders. No worries. This is important to me, as I shoot most coyotes facing me, or quartering in. If I'm lucky I will get an occassional broadside as they travel through the forest.
Another factor (at least for Notrheast guys) is you will call a bruiser every once in awhile. I'm just not felling too warm and fuzzy toting my 223 when you may have a coyote the size of a Labrador Retriever respond. Hate to get a run-off on such a huge animal.
Quote:
Of course you can all have a different opion from me (insert opinion of your choice here)…. But then you would be wrong
Spoken like a true Mass. Democrat!!!!
RKR, ya Ted Kennedy taught me that verbage while we were coyote hunting last year /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I looked at Remingtons tables and compared the .223 55grBT, the .220 Swift 50grPSP, and the .243 75grBT and came up with the following;
Muzzle 100 200 300 400
.223 1209 927 701 522 380
.220 Swift 1586 1107 760 506 325
.243 1897 1564 1282 1044 842
You can clearly see the huge advantage the 243 has over the 223.
sleddogg
New member
2muchgun.......sorry you don't get it. It's about the type of shooting needed it the forest. Coyote can be in and gone in the blink of an eye in the forest, and sadly the target in usually moving. The extra energy of the larger round is useful in anchoring the animal with minimal running/spinning. Its not about velocity, its about delivering foot pounds to the target. Review the ballistic chart I posted above. The 243 clearly kicks butt, and does reduce the runners dramatically.
Assuming the terrain is similar to my home area (mixed bush, swamps, fields) with most shots being 200 yards or under... I'd vote 22-250 or .223 in that order for the non-handloader, .204 or .220 Swift for the handloader.
If you really put a gun to my head and said pick one, I'd say 22-250.
If you really put a gun to my head and said pick one, I'd say 22-250.
BHLBAMA
New member
if he already has a 22-250..... there is no reason to buy a 223 if he is not capable of buying mulitple guns a year. He needs some multipurpose rifle like a 243 Win/ WSSM or 257 Roberts,25 WSSM, 25 06.
Although I must say the most accurate rifle I own is a 700 BDL in 17 Rem. all factory and shoot under 1/2 with factory ammo and I have shot some 6 shot groups where you could only see 2 or 3 oversized holes.
Although I must say the most accurate rifle I own is a 700 BDL in 17 Rem. all factory and shoot under 1/2 with factory ammo and I have shot some 6 shot groups where you could only see 2 or 3 oversized holes.
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