17hmr Penetration Testing
- Thread starter DiRTY DOG
- Start date
I like the V-Max bullets and the TNT's (hollowpoints) the best for hunting purposes.I've been shooting the .17HMR for over 6 years now and in that amount of time I've probably managed to kill more stuff with it than I have with any other gun that I own.The V-Max bullets shoot the best out of my gun so that's what I use.I tested the CCI Gamepoints out on prairie dogs a time or two this year and I wasn't as impressed with them as I thought I would be.I think maybe prairie dogs are small enough that the bullet doesn't have as much time to expand so it just punches a hole straight through them.They might work a little better on heavier bodied critters though.
Last Winter I shot a few badgers with Federal .17gr V-Max bullets and they worked just fine.I only had to shoot one of them twice to kill it but the first shot wasn't a very good shot to begin with.It was running in the opposite direction towards its den so I shot it in the back so it would stop runnin.Once the bullet hit fur the badger started spinnin and tryin to kill whatever just "bit" it.The second shot hit it right under the chin and dropped it.The second badger I shot was lookin at me so I put the crosshairs on its chest and dropped it right where it stood.I skinned both badgers and I found a few bullet fragments just under the skin but the wound under the fragments looked pretty gnarly.I don't know how deep the holes were or anything like that.About all I know is they were deep enough to make a living badger into a dead badger.
Last Winter I shot a few badgers with Federal .17gr V-Max bullets and they worked just fine.I only had to shoot one of them twice to kill it but the first shot wasn't a very good shot to begin with.It was running in the opposite direction towards its den so I shot it in the back so it would stop runnin.Once the bullet hit fur the badger started spinnin and tryin to kill whatever just "bit" it.The second shot hit it right under the chin and dropped it.The second badger I shot was lookin at me so I put the crosshairs on its chest and dropped it right where it stood.I skinned both badgers and I found a few bullet fragments just under the skin but the wound under the fragments looked pretty gnarly.I don't know how deep the holes were or anything like that.About all I know is they were deep enough to make a living badger into a dead badger.
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okoyote
New member
A lot of people scoff the 17hmr for varmint work. I've watched a coyote drop DRT with a shot in the chest and prairie dog kills @ 150+. Not saying it is a go-to coyote killing round. . . . just saying it is underestimated.
Interesting test. Thanks for taking the time and posting.
Interesting test. Thanks for taking the time and posting.
Nice report! Thanx. Varmint Al has the only other actual penetration reports/tests I've seen in the 17 HMR, and his results were similar. Led me to believe the Vmax/TNT's were for small stuff (PD's, birds/etc.) where penetration wasn't an issue, and body mass was small. The 20 gr's seem to be the ticket to make sure you can get there on anything larger. May not have the dramatic effect that a 17 gr. does when it DOESN'T encounter bone, but you WILL encounter bone sometimes, and it seems the 20's are the ticket for groundhog/fox, etc. and on up.
Anybody got actual 17HMR biopsy reports on fox or larger game with the 20's??
Anybody got actual 17HMR biopsy reports on fox or larger game with the 20's??
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
I don't. The only two foxes I shot with the 20gr XTP both ran off. Same stand about 2min apart. 90-100 yard shots both were knocked down but they got up and ran into thick brush. I followed both blood trails as far as I could but never recovered the foxes. The first shot was solid, from shooting sticks. The second shot was quartering away slightly but I got him. I have not used the 20gr XTP on foxes since then and don't plan to anymore in the future.
In my opinion, the Vmax works much better, something about the hydrostatic shock or whatever you want to call it when the frangible bullet explodesand dumps it's energy, vs the pin prick thru and thru of the XTP.
In my opinion, the Vmax works much better, something about the hydrostatic shock or whatever you want to call it when the frangible bullet explodesand dumps it's energy, vs the pin prick thru and thru of the XTP.
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
The reduction in velocity has decreased the 17gr Vmax's effectiveness by 20- 25 yards. About a 5% decrease in power. Doesn't sound like much right?
The impact velocity at 50 yards used to be just over 2300fps. Now that same impact velocity is at only 27 yards!! It used to be just over 2000fps at 100 yards, but now it reaches the same speed at only 77 yards!!
I'd call that a significant drop in killing effectiveness.
The impact velocity at 50 yards used to be just over 2300fps. Now that same impact velocity is at only 27 yards!! It used to be just over 2000fps at 100 yards, but now it reaches the same speed at only 77 yards!!
I'd call that a significant drop in killing effectiveness.
CrazyHorse66
Active member
Great thread DD!
I am glad the kids are in school, so we can keep this on topic.
You've got me curious now.
I'll have a meat and bones test this afternoon when the meat thaws:
The dogs are going to love this!
I am glad the kids are in school, so we can keep this on topic.
You've got me curious now.
I'll have a meat and bones test this afternoon when the meat thaws:
The dogs are going to love this!
ARCOREY
New member
Nice write up DiRTY DOG. I have the best accuracy from the same rifle using the 20gr. Gamepoints. I tried the V-max, FMJ, XTP, TNT and Gamepoints and found my rifle hates FMJ and TNT. XTP is slightly better with V-maxes being slightly edged out by the Gamepoints. You're right, for a $200 rifle, the Marlin 917V is hard to beat.
My thinking on bullet selection was to go with the most accurate. In my case the V-max and Gamepoint were more than accurate enough to hunt with so it then came down to performance. I found that I was able to hit a bone on purpose more reliably than I could miss one. The shoulder blade, breast bone, spine and skull are pretty good sized targets on groundhogs, fox, and cats. For this reason I like a between the eyes shot when facing and a square in the shoulder shot when broadside. The groundhogs I shot with the V-max, which are admittedly very tough compared to a fox, usually splashed unless I hit below the breast bone or quartering up through the rib cage. The V-max also resulted in a lot of tearing of their tough hides. I ran my trap line this past year using my HMR and Gamepoints and had zero damage to fox, coon, possum, skunk, and groundhog. As you found, the penetration was very controlled and uniform. These animals were all shot from distances of several feet to 40yds. I don't recall any passthroughs and most of them were shot in the head either in the bridge of the nose or between the eyes as I was shooting them with a kill light early in the mornings. The only animals that didn't die instantly from the shots were the possums. Apparently they don't use their brains for anything. I think the Gamepoints are still a decent bullet for hunting so long as you don't aim behind the shoulder or high in the chest for frontal shots. That being said, I'd love to see a 20-22gr. V-max. I think that would give the best compromise.
Mine has done 3 shot 50yd prone groups like this more than a couple of times with the GP's.
My thinking on bullet selection was to go with the most accurate. In my case the V-max and Gamepoint were more than accurate enough to hunt with so it then came down to performance. I found that I was able to hit a bone on purpose more reliably than I could miss one. The shoulder blade, breast bone, spine and skull are pretty good sized targets on groundhogs, fox, and cats. For this reason I like a between the eyes shot when facing and a square in the shoulder shot when broadside. The groundhogs I shot with the V-max, which are admittedly very tough compared to a fox, usually splashed unless I hit below the breast bone or quartering up through the rib cage. The V-max also resulted in a lot of tearing of their tough hides. I ran my trap line this past year using my HMR and Gamepoints and had zero damage to fox, coon, possum, skunk, and groundhog. As you found, the penetration was very controlled and uniform. These animals were all shot from distances of several feet to 40yds. I don't recall any passthroughs and most of them were shot in the head either in the bridge of the nose or between the eyes as I was shooting them with a kill light early in the mornings. The only animals that didn't die instantly from the shots were the possums. Apparently they don't use their brains for anything. I think the Gamepoints are still a decent bullet for hunting so long as you don't aim behind the shoulder or high in the chest for frontal shots. That being said, I'd love to see a 20-22gr. V-max. I think that would give the best compromise.
Mine has done 3 shot 50yd prone groups like this more than a couple of times with the GP's.
varmentwacker
New member
i have loved the 17hmr from day one. being a 22mag fan for the longest. i have a ton of coons on my place. they are tuff son of a guns. with the 22mag i was having to shoot them 2-3 times to get the job done. with the 20gr ammo the hmr is a one shot deal.
CrazyHorse66
Active member
Bone then meat.
We'll go for the thicker part of the jawbone:
Using 20 gr Hornady XTP and 17 gr Federal Premium VShok:
We'll go for the thicker part of the jawbone:
Using 20 gr Hornady XTP and 17 gr Federal Premium VShok:
DiRTY DOG
Well-known member
Well, hard dry deer jaw bones are a lot different than small critter ribs and shoulders. Even the Vmax has no trouble penetrating mild steel and 2x4s etc. I bet both bullets easily penetrate the bone with no expansion and then do who knows what in flesh. I'd rather see what the bullets do in flesh without the bone. I bet it will look like the wet phone book test. In real animals it's a little different though, in real animals there's softer tissue, lungs, guts, hollow cavities, and elasticity. All I know is the Vmax about vaporizes that kind of small game tissue.
CrazyHorse66
Active member
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG I bet both bullets easily penetrate the bone with no expansion and then do who knows what in flesh. I'd rather see what the bullets do in flesh without the bone. I bet it will look like the wet phone book test.
I've taken more sausage out to thaw.
We'll do both. I'm more interested in going through the bone, and a hog jaw is what I have to work with on hand. The thickness where I plan to shoot is comparable to a medium sized animal rib.
I agree that the flesh with no bone will probably look similar to the phone book test.
I'm not looking to disprove anything you've posted, I'm just adding to it.
Like I said previously:
Originally Posted By: CrazyHorse66If someone is having success with a system, I say more power to em.
I've taken more sausage out to thaw.
We'll do both. I'm more interested in going through the bone, and a hog jaw is what I have to work with on hand. The thickness where I plan to shoot is comparable to a medium sized animal rib.
I agree that the flesh with no bone will probably look similar to the phone book test.
I'm not looking to disprove anything you've posted, I'm just adding to it.
Like I said previously:
Originally Posted By: CrazyHorse66If someone is having success with a system, I say more power to em.
CrazyHorse66
Active member
Here's the setup:
6-1/4" of meat packed into cut water bottles.
Range: 50 yards
VMax:
The VMax exploded in the first inch of the meat. No jacket was found. The force of the hit accordioned the bottle inwards slightly. It also distorted the shape of the mouth of the bottle.
(cont.)
6-1/4" of meat packed into cut water bottles.
Range: 50 yards
VMax:
The VMax exploded in the first inch of the meat. No jacket was found. The force of the hit accordioned the bottle inwards slightly. It also distorted the shape of the mouth of the bottle.
(cont.)