.223 not enough for coyotes. makes me laugh.

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Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotthere is a discussion on another board about the 223 being a good round for coyotes. one of the ill informed goof balls writes this

"out here, the 223 is marginal?
There should be a rule against those machineguns! I'm not saying you can't have one, you know, in case Black Lives Matter breaks down your front door, but they seem completely inappropriate in the sporting fields.

What makes a grown man want to play soldier with the scary military weapon? I hardly ever use the word. "weapon" in connection with any hunting application, but it is what it is."

think the guy ^^^^lives in california. must be some big bad coyotes there. guess that kind of explains his liberal attitude towards ar15 rifles too. what a douche.



?? the guy states an opinion and he's a douche? He's definitely not a liberal. As already stated, the guy in question has been hunting and involved in hunting probably longer than most of the people responding to this thread have been alive. He's definitely been there, done that.

I happen to agree with him on the AR platform style rifle. It doesn't mean I think they should be banned or don't have a place, just means I don't want one. I also never use the term "weapon". Sounds lame to me when talking about my hunting rifle...or "gun".

One reason I think he is so down on .223 is because he, like a lot of us west coast guys did a lot of night hunting. Hunting at night you want the critter to drop on the spot. Even if they take a few steps or spins they can be really tough to find. I had a couple buddies who used a 270 just for that reason.

I used a .223 a lot of years because it was all I had. I never really had too many issues with it as long as I kept my shots within 200 yards....which the vast majority of the time was much under that.
 
It's not hard to find. But there is some pretty extreme bad blood between the guy who posted that - the owner of the other site, and this site, which he was the main mover in creating and getting running in the first place, as requested of him by the founder, Will Craig. He went on a hunting trip and got voted out by the current administration while he was gone. Created more drama and bull crap and bad feelings than anyone not involved could possibly appreciate. It's the reason so many good people got banned from here and why so many of them will always hate PM. And do realize, many of the "experienced coyote men" that bother to participate on any internet forums, absolutely hate this place. All the ones I know do. And most of them were moderators here at one time!

You'll get some conflicting accounts, but that's the gist of it.

Bottom line though, no, I ain't gonna point anyone from here, to there, or vice versa.

- DAA
 
The gentleman that is getting slammed for saying that about AR style rifles is about far right as you can get in his political views. He just doesn't have a very high opinion of the AR style rifles. He also has shot more coyotes than any of us have, in the past he has shot more in a weekend of calling than most on here shoot in a year.
It's only his personal opinion on the .223 and AR's, kind of like how your father or grandfather might not like something because that's how it was done when they were younger.

Have only hunted North Dakota a couple of times but those coyotes up there in the winter have a much heavier and thicker fur. I live in southern MN and I was amazed how much thicker their fur gets. You start having to go through that extra fur and the fact that they are a bigger coyote than southern coyotes makes this discussion kind of apples and oranges for some of the different regions.

I learned over the years when I call at night under the moon to take the 22-250 or 243. I want them to die fast and right where they were standing.
 
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Originally Posted By: tawnoperOriginally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotthere is a discussion on another board about the 223 being a good round for coyotes. one of the ill informed goof balls writes this

"out here, the 223 is marginal?
There should be a rule against those machineguns! I'm not saying you can't have one, you know, in case Black Lives Matter breaks down your front door, but they seem completely inappropriate in the sporting fields.

What makes a grown man want to play soldier with the scary military weapon? I hardly ever use the word. "weapon" in connection with any hunting application, but it is what it is."

think the guy ^^^^lives in california. must be some big bad coyotes there. guess that kind of explains his liberal attitude towards ar15 rifles too. what a douche.



?? the guy states an opinion and he's a douche? He's definitely not a liberal. As already stated, the guy in question has been hunting and involved in hunting probably longer than most of the people responding to this thread have been alive. He's definitely been there, done that.

I happen to agree with him on the AR platform style rifle. It doesn't mean I think they should be banned or don't have a place, just means I don't want one. I also never use the term "weapon". Sounds lame to me when talking about my hunting rifle...or "gun".

One reason I think he is so down on .223 is because he, like a lot of us west coast guys did a lot of night hunting. Hunting at night you want the critter to drop on the spot. Even if they take a few steps or spins they can be really tough to find. I had a couple buddies who used a 270 just for that reason.

I used a .223 a lot of years because it was all I had. I never really had too many issues with it as long as I kept my shots within 200 yards....which the vast majority of the time was much under that.


He is a douche by my standards. Clearly talking down on people and that they choose to hunt with their machineguns and play soldier with scary military weapons.
 
I don't know who the guy is, don't care to know either. What I do know,is I have no use for ANYONE that turns their back on a newby wanting to learn. Or ANYONE who thinks they are so much better that they cant pass on some of their knowledge to help a fellow hunter become a better hunter.

Now...back to the popcorn!!
 
Originally Posted By: CZ527I wish someone would PM me and tell me who made the original comments....

I was curious myself. Where's Paul Harvey when you need..."the rest of the story"?
 
Originally Posted By: pyscodogI don't know who the guy is, don't care to know either. What I do know,is I have no use for ANYONE that turns their back on a newby wanting to learn. Or ANYONE who thinks they are so much better that they cant pass on some of their knowledge to help a fellow hunter become a better hunter.

Now...back to the popcorn!! When you've been teaching people professionally about rifles and technique for a while, you'll learn something. Helping new people isn't the hard part. Helping new people that think they have it all figured out because of something they read on the internet... that's the hard part.
 
Originally Posted By: orkanOriginally Posted By: pyscodogI don't know who the guy is, don't care to know either. What I do know,is I have no use for ANYONE that turns their back on a newby wanting to learn. Or ANYONE who thinks they are so much better that they cant pass on some of their knowledge to help a fellow hunter become a better hunter.

Now...back to the popcorn!! When you've been teaching people professionally about rifles and technique for a while, you'll learn something. Helping new people isn't the hard part. Helping new people that think they have it all figured out because of something they read on the internet... that's the hard part.





Absolutely.
 
Well, there is something to be said for the old adage, "use enough gun." Here in the east either a shotgun or a 22 magnum might be enough. I have night vision equipped 22 magnums for fox hunting and if a coyote makes the set he dies without issue...that said, if I were going out west I would take my .243. I can definitely see how a more powerful, flatter shooting rifle would be better in open country where 300 yards might be as good or close of a shot as it gets.
There is also something to be said about a hunter wanting to make a positive immediate kill, DRT is always a good thing to strive for. As to the AR's use as a hunting rifle, if you don't like it then don't use it, it's just that simple. I always thought that overall in general a nice light fast handling AR was as good an all around coyote calling rifle as any. For most shots it is flat enough and the semi auto fast follow up shots are nice when needed.
All other things aside like long range or open country or how you feel about a rifles design, any hunter equipped with a 223 that sees a coyote within his comfortable range WILL PULL THE TRIGGER, period end of story...and if he says he wont he is a liar. You have a 223, a coyote standing 75 yards away, but you are not going to shoot at it because you really believe a 223 is not "enough gun" ....zero chance!!!!
Here is another way of saying it...you are on a business trip to a location that has a lot of coyotes. You have seen 5 this morning just driving to the hotel. Later that day you meet a local that offers to take you out on a coyote hunt. All he has for you to use rifle wise is a 223 AR-15. You are going to say no thanks and decline the hunt to sit in the hotel bored because a 223 is not enough gun???? Yeah, Okay...I believe you.
 
Originally Posted By: orkan

Now...back to the popcorn!! When you've been teaching people professionally about rifles and technique for a while, you'll learn something. Helping new people isn't the hard part. Helping new people that think they have it all figured out because of something they read on the internet... that's the hard part.



[/quote]

BINGO!
 
Msinc, I guess us marylander think alike. Never felt under gunned with a 223 and have a soft spot for the 22 wmr
 
Originally Posted By: hate2workcase in point. Sometimes its just better to STFU about people or things you have no first hand experience with.

LOL! That is not the "PM way". But you supply an excellent point if it were.

Reading is how many internet "expert opinions" are formed.
rolleyes.gif
 
This thread has went all over the place but I have some thoughts some guys may take value in, please feel free to dispute if you think otherwise but...

As said earlier, the original context may be off key but I think there are several things to look at.

#1 the 223Rem/5.56 - it comes in many sizes configurations, charges, options etc.
To compare a 35 grain varmint bullet, to a 62gr Full Metal Jacket, to a 90gr target bullet it is apples to oranges. Depending on what you want to do each one may be the "best" in your certain situation but none is a very good "all around" bullet. Using the wrong one in teh wrong situation can cause a $hitty opionion of a cartridge real fast (how many guys continue to shoot acartridge they think is insufficient).
#2 The Gun/Platform - AR-15, bolt gun, twist rate, barrel length, accuracy potential, etc
More than the span of bullets is the options of rifles. From a $150 break open to a $5K custom. You get a lot of variances and capabilities to say the least...

Maybe one guy bought a 16" Ar-15 at the pawn shop and picked up some 55gr Wolf bi-metal. Got it "close" with the first few rounds & then shot tanerite & water bottles with the other rounds in the box at 100 yards. Went home tickled pink thinking he'll give the coyotes [beeep] later in the year when he gets more time. Then maybe another guy bought a really good bolt gun with a 26" barrel. Spent a good amount of time and effort finding the right load and bullet combination and spent hours & hours on the range getting his mess together.

Now, they both go out the same week to shoot coyotes & since they both are exceptional callers, really get into them. Both getting some great real world experience on a lot of game. I'm pretty sure at end of the week; each would have a way different opinion of the 223 cartridge & it's potential...

It really tickles me when I read how much way better the 22-250 is than the 223Rem. Then you see where with-in the 223 no real need to go with a long barrel, the 16" does just as good...

In reality, at best, the 22-250 is only about ~300-350fps faster than the 223 (with like bullets and same length barrel). However, you can add/subtract roughly 25fps per inch of barrel (more on the shorter end & little less on the longer end but on average)...

So, for example: Hunter X uses a, 16" 22-250 and hunter Y uses a 223 with a 28" barrel ... Which one will have the better success rate flattening critters with the same bullet? (Of course the 22-250 is going to be WAY better, because it's supposed to; right?)

Now compare a 26" 22-250 to a 16" 223 (which is usually what happens) and I see how a man could think one is way better. But again; not really a fair shake is it.

As for long range.... When you get into the High BC 22cal bullets (I'm talking about the stuff that can't be loaded to the 2.26" length). Run them in a freebore that will allow full case capacity (the bullet boattail/base junction seated just above case shoulder/neck junction). Even the vanilla 223 will run pretty close to anything near it's class. Especially any factory offering for the 22-250, and even better than some...

To throw a blanket over any mass is a bit ignorant. Just something to think about...




 
Originally Posted By: coleridgeSo, for example: Hunter X uses a, 16" 22-250 and hunter Y uses a 223 with a 28" barrel ... Which one will have the better success rate flattening critters with the same bullet? (Of course the 22-250 is going to be WAY better, because it's supposed to; right?)
Yes, the 16" 22-250 does a much better job of flattening coyotes than a .223rem. I can't get a 28" .223 out the window of my truck very quickly at all.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: orkan
I can't get a 28" .223 out the window of my truck very quickly at all.
wink.gif


stand up in the bed and make you wife drive. top of cab makes a nice shooting platform. it will work fine for you. promise it will.
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Originally Posted By: SlickerThanSnotOriginally Posted By: orkan
I can't get a 28" .223 out the window of my truck very quickly at all.
wink.gif


stand up in the bed and make you wife drive. top of cab makes a nice shooting platform. it will work fine for you. promise it will.
wink.gif
Nah... it isn't like that. I probably shoot 20-50 "bonus" coyotes per year. Driving from set to set, back and forth to work... pop over a hill while driving BOOM there's a coyote next to the road. If the setup is good, I'll just go around them and call them in. However, if they present a nice running shot, I'll cash their check right there. 16" TS Customs 22-250 rolls em up nice.
 
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