.223 not enough for coyotes. makes me laugh.

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Originally Posted By: coleridgeOriginally Posted By: Smokin250
My 21.5" 7.7 twist 223 smashes steel at 1k way better than my 26" 14twist 22-250....now what!



Kinda what I was getting at. Not really a fair comparison either is it.?.?.?

Only used the barrel length thing to point out that it is possible for a 223 to match exactly what a 22-250 does. If your short 22-250 hits coyotes like a VW bus... Then my long 223 does exactly the same. Or, if your 24" barrel 22-250 kills coyotes like the hammer of Thor at 650 yards. My 24" 223 kills them exactly the same way at at 575 yards. Same bullet going same speed kills the same, regardless of headstamp!!!

To say one cartridge is insufficient, but the other is great out to extreme ranges... Well that's silly. Now to say my 22-250 is pretty much a 100 yard better performer than your 223 loaded with same bullet; I can wrap my head around that.

More than one way to skin a cat.
 
How many guys are shooting a 22-250 less than 22"? I would wager not many. My 22-250 with that length will push a 50 grain bullet to nearly 3900 fps. A 55 grain pill to almost 3800. By the flip side I say very few guys are running a 223 with a 26" barrel. Most are running ar 15's with that round. I have trouble breaking 3300 fps with a 20" ar and a 50 grain pill. That is a 600 fps difference. Still your probably going to be less than 3600 even with a long barrel in a 223. I use a 223 for coyotes myself but I still think at this point it sucks and am searching for the right bullet. Combine that with 223 Ammo being loaded anemic in factory form. The 22-250 reigns supreme. A Sierra 1365 pushed as fast as it will go from a 22-250 is the most efficient dog killer out there.
 
Try a 52gr SMK steve. I searched for the same thing back when I was running .223rem. That bullet will make the .223 give about as good as that cartridge is willing to give on coyotes.
 
Originally Posted By: Foxpro.223... I mean we the surfs to own.

Now who can argue with that????!!!!!!! Pretty much says it all....

Originally Posted By: steve garrettHow many guys are shooting a 22-250 less than 22"? I would wager not many.

A better question would be how many are shooting a longer than 22" barrel??...I would wager not many, because nobody makes them anymore!!! I'd love to meet the jerk weeds at the gun factories that believe all everyone wants is a carbine...
 
Originally Posted By: msincI'd love to meet the jerk weeds at the gun factories that believe all everyone wants is a carbine... If they wouldn't sell every single one they make, they'd stop making them... don't you think?

If you want it "your way," then get together with a custom builder like TS Customs, and have it so.
 
Originally Posted By: orkanOriginally Posted By: msincI'd love to meet the jerk weeds at the gun factories that believe all everyone wants is a carbine... If they wouldn't sell every single one they make, they'd stop making them... don't you think?

If you want it "your way," then get together with a custom builder like TS Customs, and have it so.

I am a machinist with a full shop and make no mistake...I do have it, when I want it...exactly my way.

How many of every single one sold gets a barrel swap...ya think????

I know of a Sako stainless model 85 that will not be sold to me because of the "carbine only" configuration...as well as a few others. It gets to a point where they just slap cost too much to buy and then make it right. I must not be the only one, I see a lot of full racks that sit that way at the gunshops. Sell EVERY SINGLE ONE??? Not by a long shot.
 
Originally Posted By: msincOriginally Posted By: orkanOriginally Posted By: msincI'd love to meet the jerk weeds at the gun factories that believe all everyone wants is a carbine... If they wouldn't sell every single one they make, they'd stop making them... don't you think?

If you want it "your way," then get together with a custom builder like TS Customs, and have it so.

I am a machinist with a full shop and make no mistake...I do have it, when I want it...exactly my way.

How many of every single one sold gets a barrel swap...ya think????

I know of a Sako stainless model 85 that will not be sold to me because of the "carbine only" configuration...as well as a few others. It gets to a point where they just slap cost too much to buy and then make it right. I must not be the only one, I see a lot of full racks that sit that way at the gunshops. Sell EVERY SINGLE ONE??? Not by a long shot. I see. So in your estimation, the rifle manufacturers all got together and decided by themselves, without any input from anyone, to just start shoving shorter barrels on people?

I hold a contrary opinion. Their choices were driven by demand.
 
I'm no pro, so my opinion doesn't really matter, but I think when the AR craze hit with the 16 and 18 inch barrels people saw that they were easier to maneuver and in order to create sales, they started building rifles with shorter barrels. To most hunters, the weight loss and slight velocity loss, with the shorter barrel, wasn't a bad trade off. JMO!!

Not counting the shorter length to allow the use of a suppressor.
 
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Originally Posted By: Foxpro.223The individual responsible for writing that sounds like Jim Zumbo or one of Michael Bloombergs trolls trying to win the hearts and minds of rugged American outdoorsmen into giving up more of their rights.

Lets face it, you give into their wishes of banning semi-auto rifles and they will never stop there. It will be bolt guns next and so on and so fourth. They (the gun grabbers) have wanted to ban bolt action deer rifles for a long time now, they want to term deer rifles as sniper rifles and designate them unfit for civilians to own. Same with semi-auto shotguns, they (the gun grabbers and the communists at the ATF) have been wanting to designate semi-auto shotguns as destrctive devices and make them illegal for civies,... I mean we the surfs to own.

That is exactly the first thing that came to mind as soon as I read "machine gun and scary military weapon".. Without the full post I could be taking his view out of context.. Without even knowing him for that matter and yes he may be part of an elite unit with higher power abilities to stack fur in biblical proportions.. Personally, I think some men are good and some men are real good but at the end of the day we are all only men..

What is the difference between 556 and 223? Seems like there has been criticism and controversy that predates internet BS on the 556's terminal effects on the human body. Ethical and humane kills have also been a big concern with our government just like hunters. US troops are issued bullets without expanding projectiles. I guess their science shows that non FMJ ammo causes "superfluous injury" and "unnecessary suffering". Which way is right and which way is up? Their science is outdated and related to some Hague conference over a century ago. We can break down modern science and personal experience of the projectile but the end result is that dead is dead, there is not a special dead or a more dead. Terminal application in the field has a cap and anything above it is more than what is needed and that cap is "dead". I would rather have more than what is needed than not enough so I carry what I feel meets my needs.. Admittedly, I have at times come up short and it's nice to shift blame on the "weapon" instead of human error.
 
Entertaining thread ,esp if you like wearing knee boots while eating popcorn..
lol.gif
 
I agree with Orkan. I have used a 223 for two years now.. and I'm thinking about switching to 22-250 (even [beeep] I'm not a fan of that cartridge).. because I'm sick of watching dogs run away... I shot one that was as red as a red fox last year, it started spinning so I smacked it again, watched it roll down the hill... Walked towards where it was, looked down in the low spot and saw it run away .... I'm personally sick of that [beeep].
 
My opinion is 223 can kill a coyote, I have had them drt at 250 yards before.(chest shot). but have had them run away for 75yard broadside shots.. there are better options.. . I'm stuck between 22-250 or 243
 
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