.243/6mm vs .25 Caliber Bullets for Coyotes

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jasonprox700

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Let's say a person had to choose between a .243/6mm cal or a .25 cal cartridge for coyote hunting. To make things as close to equal as you can and for comparison sake only, let's say one is a .243 WSSM and the other is the .25 WSSM. These have almost identical case capacity and case design, hence my selection. Otherwise I'd choose the .243 or .25-06 for my personal cartridge preference.

What I'm looking at is with similar weight bullets (75 & 87gr), which cartridge performs the best. This means drop, windage, and damage to coyote on impact.

With all things being "equal", would a 87gr .25 do more damage than the 87gr .243?

 
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As a general rule the 6mm bullets have much higher BC than the .25s making them have better down range performance. Hence the reason you do not see anyone winning matches with the .25s but the cult like followers of the quarter bores will be hating me for saying this.
 
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Originally Posted By: MNHNTRAs a general rule the 6mm bullets have much higher BC than the .25s making them have better down range performance. Hence the reason you do not see anyone winning matches with the .25s but the cult like followers of the quarter bores will be hating me for saying this.

Huh???

"As a general rule"... as you go up in bores size, you go up in BC.

Larger bore size bullets, for their range of weights, have larger BC's, not smaller.

Most long range matches have been won with 30 caliber bullets.

Winning matches has nothing to do with killing yotes...
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: MNHNTRAs a general rule the 6mm bullets have much higher BC than the .25s making them have better down range performance. Hence the reason you do not see anyone winning matches with the .25s but the cult like followers of the quarter bores will be hating me for saying this.

Huh???

"As a general rule"... as you go up in bores size, you go up in BC.

Larger bore size bullets, for their range of weights, have larger BC's, not smaller.

Most long range matches have been won with 30 caliber bullets.

Winning matches has nothing to do with killing yotes...

Huh??????
Just because you increase bore size the BC does not increase for the same bullet weight (as the OP was asking),What bullet has a higher BC 6mm vs .25 cal in 115 grain,6.5mm vs 7mm in 140 grain, or 7mm vs .30 cal in 168 grain?
 
Originally Posted By: jlh321Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: MNHNTRAs a general rule the 6mm bullets have much higher BC than the .25s making them have better down range performance. Hence the reason you do not see anyone winning matches with the .25s but the cult like followers of the quarter bores will be hating me for saying this.

Huh???

"As a general rule"... as you go up in bores size, you go up in BC.

Larger bore size bullets, for their range of weights, have larger BC's, not smaller.

Most long range matches have been won with 30 caliber bullets.

Winning matches has nothing to do with killing yotes...

Huh??????
Just because you increase bore size the BC does not increase for the same bullet weight (as the OP was asking),What bullet has a higher BC 6mm vs .25 cal in 115 grain,6.5mm vs 7mm in 140 grain, or 7mm vs .30 cal in 168 grain?

I did not say that, and I was addressing the comment made by MNHNTR, not the OP.


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Originally Posted By: SShooterZSlicing hairs... Pick which one you shoot best and go hunting.

+1


"As a general rule"...6.5's have the highest bc for bullet weight.
 
Originally Posted By: MNHNTRAs a general rule the 6mm bullets have much higher BC than the .25s making them have better down range performance. Hence the reason you do not see anyone winning matches with the .25s but the cult like followers of the quarter bores will be hating me for saying this.

I don't hate you but I'll tell you you're totally wrong about the BC's unless you want to hunt with match bullets, something I don't recommend. Try comparing Sierra or Nosler hunting bullets in the 75 to 90 gr range and you'll see they are quite similar. If the .25 cal has one problem it is a lack of high bc match bullets. Why there is no development in this area amazes me. The .25-06 is capable of some very high velocity with slightly heavier bullets then the 6mm.

I own both a .243 Win and a .25-06 Rem. To be honest I have never seen any cartridge hit varmints harder then the .25 at extremely long distance when using bullets of 85 to 90 gr. The .243 does well but doesn't hit quite as hard.

Which would I take hunting? Tough question really except for the fact that I have the .243 in a Featherweight while the .25-06 is in a tack driving varmint rifle. So, for me it comes down to the hunting I'm doing. If I know I'll be sitting mostly with long shots the .25 goes. If I'll be walking the .243 goes.

They are similar but I wouldn't get rid of one for the other. If I had both chambered in the same rifle I'd have a really tough decision which to take hunting.
 
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Originally Posted By: BeluebowOriginally Posted By: SShooterZSlicing hairs... Pick which one you shoot best and go hunting.

+1


"As a general rule"...6.5's have the highest bc for bullet weight.

For bullets of the same weight (and same shape/design), the smaller bore will ALWAYS have a higher BC

A 90 grain .224" bullet has a higher BC than a 90 grain 243 bullet, which has a higher BC than a 90 grain, 264" bullet.
 
The OP asked about drop and windage along with killing yotes. Hunting thin skinned animals with match bullets is a non issue. I have taken deer and yotes with match bullets without them ever knowing the difference.
Now if you want to compare the quarter bores against the 243 lets do that.
Hornady VMax 75gr 243 has a BC of 330
Hornady VMax 75gr 257 has a BC of 290
Hornady VMax 110gr 308 has a BC of 290
these are hunting bullets by the way.
So there goes your theory of bigger is better. The better the BC the better down range performance. Actualy the majority of 243 bullets are better than their 257 counter parts. And if you read your own post you did say that. The quarter bores are less fur friendly also from what I have seen.
 
Well it's obvious. Having a higher BC means that the 6MM is the ideal bullet to kill anything from coyotes to gargantuan wooly mammoths from finger tip range to half a mile away.

It's so obvious to those in the know about ballistic gak. I wonder why it escapes so many others who shoot obviously inferior bullets.

This thread seals it. I'm selling everything except my 243 Winchesters and my 6MM Remingtons. They are all a man could ever need when shooting clear across Texas. Maybe even across Rhode Island too.

NOTICE: I have a big bunch of rifles in bore diameters bigger than 6MM for sale - all for sale at "buy 'em now prices" - especially the 25's. The list includes a couple of 257 Roberts, a couple of 25-06's, a 257 AI, and a custom 25-308 that I'll let go today at a rock bottom price. It's a full custom rifle including a custom French walnut stock built on a pre-64 Model 70 action. Today: $35 if you pay shipping to your FFL.

Call me: BFR917. Call collect.
 
Originally Posted By: Winny FanWell it's obvious. Having a higher BC means that the 6MM is the ideal bullet to kill anything from coyotes to gargantuan wooly mammoths from finger tip range to half a mile away.

It's so obvious to those in the know about ballistic gak. I wonder why it escapes so many others who shoot obviously inferior bullets.
I never said that but if you want to be a smart arse then I guess.
The OP asked what has the better trajectory and windage which is directly related to the BC of the bullets. But I guess you knew that which is why you would rather be smug about it.
 
Originally Posted By: MNHNTROriginally Posted By: Winny FanWell it's obvious. Having a higher BC means that the 6MM is the ideal bullet to kill anything from coyotes to gargantuan wooly mammoths from finger tip range to half a mile away.

It's so obvious to those in the know about ballistic gak. I wonder why it escapes so many others who shoot obviously inferior bullets.
I never said that but if you want to be a smart arse then I guess.
The OP asked what has the better trajectory and windage which is directly related to the BC of the bullets. But I guess you knew that which is why you would rather be smug about it.

You're the one who created "smug" with your initial comments about cults, etc. But not to worry; that happens a lot on the internet when someone is in their best "mine is best" mode. And how could anyone hate silly people as you suggested? Carry on.
 
Originally Posted By: jasonprox700Let's say a person had to choose between a .243/6mm cal or a .25 cal cartridge for coyote hunting. To make things as close to equal as you can and for comparison sake only, let's say one is a .243 WSSM and the other is the .25 WSSM. These have almost identical case capacity and case design, hence my selection. Otherwise I'd choose the .243 or .25-06 for my personal cartridge preference.

What I'm looking at is with similar weight bullets (75 & 87gr), which cartridge performs the best. This means drop, windage, and damage to coyote on impact.

With all things being "equal", would a 87gr .25 do more damage than the 87gr .243?



Why stop at 243 and 257 bores. Include the 224 bore too.

With 80 or 90 grain bullets, the 223 WSSM will run away from both the 243 and 25 WSSM, with similar weight bullets.

You can not set something like this up and expect to get reasonable answers, because all things are NOT equal - there are large differences that not be compared on paper.

No one that shoots the 25 bore would pick light bullets like a 75gr - they would pick heaver bullets that the larger bore was able to shoot.

For example, compare the 70 grain 243 Blitzking to the 90 grain 25 cal BlitzKing - it is a much more reasonable comparison. Similar bullets, similar profiles.

The average BC for the 70 grain 243 BK is ~0.275.
The average BC for the 90 grain 257 BK is ~0.375.

BIG DIFFERENCE. Down range, the 257 will hit faster, harder, with more weight.

Of course, one might ask, why you need any mid size bore WSSM for coyotes?


.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: jasonprox700Let's say a person had to choose between a .243/6mm cal or a .25 cal cartridge for coyote hunting. To make things as close to equal as you can and for comparison sake only, let's say one is a .243 WSSM and the other is the .25 WSSM. These have almost identical case capacity and case design, hence my selection. Otherwise I'd choose the .243 or .25-06 for my personal cartridge preference.

What I'm looking at is with similar weight bullets (75 & 87gr), which cartridge performs the best. This means drop, windage, and damage to coyote on impact.

With all things being "equal", would a 87gr .25 do more damage than the 87gr .243?



Why stop at 243 and 257 bores. Include the 224 bore too.

With 80 or 90 grain bullets, the 223 WSSM will run away from both the 243 and 25 WSSM, with similar weight bullets.

You can not set something like this up and expect to get reasonable answers, because all things are NOT equal - there are large differences that not be compared on paper.

No one that shoots the 25 bore would pick light bullets like a 75gr - they would pick heaver bullets that the larger bore was able to shoot.

For example, compare the 70 grain 243 Blitzking to the 90 grain 25 cal BlitzKing - it is a much more reasonable comparison. Similar bullets, similar profiles.

The average BC for the 70 grain 243 BK is ~0.275.
The average BC for the 90 grain 257 BK is ~0.375.

BIG DIFFERENCE. Down range, the 257 will hit faster, harder, with more weight.

Of course, one might ask, why you need any mid size bore WSSM for coyotes?


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I agree you can make the case that some of the bullets are favorable to the 25s but in the grand scheme of things you cannot make a 25 do what you can make a 243 do when selecting the best bullets for the two calibers. The 243 will have the edge every time unless you limit selection. I guess to each his own. Thats why we have the freedom of choice. I was just trying to answer the OP in an honest way. I have a 257 bob and a 260 but never owned a 243. I would never put the bob up against a 243 or 260 for anything past 500 yds. The 25-06 is a better 25 than the bob for sure but it lacks the selection of projectiles compared to the 243 or 6.5s and can only achieve the same results burnign more powder and with more recoil than the 243 or 6.5s. I am sorry if I offended anyone but I think it is best to answer a question without bias.
 
Originally Posted By: MNHNTROriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: jasonprox700Let's say a person had to choose between a .243/6mm cal or a .25 cal cartridge for coyote hunting. To make things as close to equal as you can and for comparison sake only, let's say one is a .243 WSSM and the other is the .25 WSSM. These have almost identical case capacity and case design, hence my selection. Otherwise I'd choose the .243 or .25-06 for my personal cartridge preference.

What I'm looking at is with similar weight bullets (75 & 87gr), which cartridge performs the best. This means drop, windage, and damage to coyote on impact.

With all things being "equal", would a 87gr .25 do more damage than the 87gr .243?



Why stop at 243 and 257 bores. Include the 224 bore too.

With 80 or 90 grain bullets, the 223 WSSM will run away from both the 243 and 25 WSSM, with similar weight bullets.

You can not set something like this up and expect to get reasonable answers, because all things are NOT equal - there are large differences that not be compared on paper.

No one that shoots the 25 bore would pick light bullets like a 75gr - they would pick heaver bullets that the larger bore was able to shoot.

For example, compare the 70 grain 243 Blitzking to the 90 grain 25 cal BlitzKing - it is a much more reasonable comparison. Similar bullets, similar profiles.

The average BC for the 70 grain 243 BK is ~0.275.
The average BC for the 90 grain 257 BK is ~0.375.

BIG DIFFERENCE. Down range, the 257 will hit faster, harder, with more weight.

Of course, one might ask, why you need any mid size bore WSSM for coyotes?


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....but never owned a 243..... I am sorry if I offended anyone but I think it is best to answer a question without bias.

The first 5 words in what I saved of your quote probably says it best. It's also useful sometimes, even here, to really know what you are talking about from real life experience and not just from what Billy Bob Gunner told you in an article in the latest issue of "My Rifle Shoots Best".

If I was going coyote hunting with a 257 Roberts, I might use an 87 grain bullet, knowing full well that a coyote at any reasonable range I might shoot at him isn't going to out run the obviously inferior bullet. On the flip side, if I was going Mule Deer hunting out in West Texas, like Catshooter said, I'd without a doubt use a heavier bullet such as one weighing 117 grains. And from experience, I know I won't be handicapped in the vast expanses of West Texas with that choice.
 
Not to start an argument or offend anyone but every time someone asks about a choice of cartridges for hunting people bring up match bullets with fantastic BC's in their favorite caliber.

As Catshooter brought up originally in his first post "Winning matches has nothing to do with killing yotes....".

But people seem to levitate to match bullets for everything. A good BC is important, but how important? If you're talking that you have to shoot something with the highest BC there is when hunting yotes it ain't the 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm or 30 cal, they all pale in comparison to the .50 BMG. Heck the BC for that one is 1.050! But is it practical?
 
Originally Posted By: jasonprox700Let's say a person had to choose between a .243/6mm cal or a .25 cal cartridge for coyote hunting. To make things as close to equal as you can and for comparison sake only, let's say one is a .243 WSSM and the other is the .25 WSSM. These have almost identical case capacity and case design, hence my selection. Otherwise I'd choose the .243 or .25-06 for my personal cartridge preference.

What I'm looking at is with similar weight bullets (75 & 87gr), which cartridge performs the best. This means drop, windage, and damage to coyote on impact.

With all things being "equal", would a 87gr .25 do more damage than the 87gr .243?





To play along with your set up, The 25 WSSM wins.


The 25 will run comparable bullets [87gr] about 400fps faster than the 243. BC might be better with the .243, but that much velocity difference is a game changer. Time of flight is shorter, trajectory is a lot flatter and much more energy on impact. It would be about the same difference between a 223 REM and a 22-250 loaded in their max range with 55gr bullets.

The 25 is more of everything on paper and otherwise than the 243. They really aren't comparable, but we must play the game.

As far as getting caught up in the BC difference, most people cannot dope the wind, or shoot well enough to see the difference in modern varmint bullets. They all shoot extremely well. JMO.
 
Smokeless, well put. What the .25 lacks in high BC bullets it more then makes up for with velocity. But keep in mind we're talking hunting bullets.

I do not hunt with match bullets, especially for varmints. A varmint bullet was designed for a purpose. It is extremely frangible. What this means is that a miss will not ricochet, this is very important if you hunt areas with houses, people and farm animals.

I own both but for hunting yokes I use 70/75 gr bullets in the .243 and 85/90 gr bullets in the .25-06.
 
Originally Posted By: SmokelessOriginally Posted By: jasonprox700Let's say a person had to choose between a .243/6mm cal or a .25 cal cartridge for coyote hunting. To make things as close to equal as you can and for comparison sake only, let's say one is a .243 WSSM and the other is the .25 WSSM. These have almost identical case capacity and case design, hence my selection. Otherwise I'd choose the .243 or .25-06 for my personal cartridge preference.

What I'm looking at is with similar weight bullets (75 & 87gr), which cartridge performs the best. This means drop, windage, and damage to coyote on impact.

With all things being "equal", would a 87gr .25 do more damage than the 87gr .243?





To play along with your set up, The 25 WSSM wins.


The 25 will run comparable bullets [87gr] about 400fps faster than the 243. BC might be better with the .243, but that much velocity difference is a game changer. Time of flight is shorter, trajectory is a lot flatter and much more energy on impact. It would be about the same difference between a 223 REM and a 22-250 loaded in their max range with 55gr bullets.

The 25 is more of everything on paper and otherwise than the 243. They really aren't comparable, but we must play the game.

As far as getting caught up in the BC difference, most people cannot dope the wind, or shoot well enough to see the difference in modern varmint bullets. They all shoot extremely well. JMO.
I know exactly what I am talking about. The 243 does everything the 25s do with less powder and recoil making them more efficient.
 


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