25-06 Ackley advice

Originally Posted By: 204farrOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: 204farrmonashee why not just cram your bullets .015 and be done with it .that will let you form fire

That will NOT solve the problem...
neither will making custom false sholder brass
if you don't have the crush you need the only true fix is to set it back
both ways are bandaid


and the more you mess with the sholder the better chance you have of making a doughnut

Gotta wonder where some people get their ideas. You've been reading too much.

No matter what you may have read somewhere by somebody else.....cramming bullets is not how to make up for excess headspace when caseforming improved cartridges.

The whole reason for creating a false shoulder is to make crush. That's what it's for......to make crush.

Doing that 25-06 brass with a false shoulder won't cause a doughnut.

And all the 6BR imp stuff ad nauseum......why even post that?
 
Originally Posted By: AckmanOriginally Posted By: 204farrOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: 204farrmonashee why not just cram your bullets .015 and be done with it .that will let you form fire

That will NOT solve the problem...
neither will making custom false sholder brass
if you don't have the crush you need the only true fix is to set it back
both ways are bandaid


and the more you mess with the sholder the better chance you have of making a doughnut

Gotta wonder where people get their ideas. You've been reading too much and not understanding.

A false shoulder will absolutely make crush. That's the whole reason for a false shoulder.

A false shoulder has nothing to do with causing a doughnut.

And all that 6BR imp stuff ad nauseum......why even post that?

ONCE AGAIN........... I posted the link to the 6BR "stuff" SIMPLY TO SHOW A PICTURE OF WHAT A FALSE CASE SHOULDER LOOKS LIKE. I did not anticipate anyone running with it as a solution to any of this AI stuff. But in retrospect, this is the internet. I should have seen it coming from someone who would rather "jam bullets" than borrow dies, if necessary, to create a false shoulder on a case neck to form brass properly.....
 
Winny Dude - chill.

Not your fault. It's the idiot that took it out of context who is to blame.

On making false shoulders CHEAP...

Get an expander from RCBS or Sinclair Int. Less than 10 bucks.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/977053/...-65-257-roberts

Temporally fit in your 25-06 die. Screw the stem up high in the die, cuz you'll want more leverage, and you are not decapinng.

Run your cases up until the neck is expanded to 264, but but stop when you feel the expander clear the case - DON'T run the cases all the way up.

When you have done all your cases, then remove the tapered expander and partially size the neck do get a false shoulder.

No need to buy another die.

.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterWinny Dude - chill.

Not your fault. It's the idiot that took it out of context who is to blame.

On making false shoulders CHEAP...

Get an expander from RCBS or Sinclair Int. Less than 10 bucks.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/977053/...-65-257-roberts

Temporally fit in your 25-06 die. Screw the stem up high in the die, cuz you'll want more leverage, and you are not decapinng.

Run your cases up until the neck is expanded to 264, but but stop when you feel the expander clear the case - DON'T run the cases all the way up.

When you have done all your cases, then remove the tapered expander and partially size the neck do get a false shoulder.

No need to buy another die.

.

LOL!! I agree, I should chill.

The internet is the only place where you think you're helping someone by showing them how to get from Point A directly to Point B, only to discover they went through Bum____k, Egypt simply because they can't read illuminated road signs.

My son calls it trying to push a cotton rope up an elevator shaft.

I had thought last night about saying all you needed was the expander rod and the next larger expander button, but the "die had been cast" so to speak with "+1" 's and "
thumbup.gif
" 's.
 
My point was only that you can't expect those who know all the answers to accept a different way of thinking than thier own. Albeit not an ideal method, the "cramming" has worked for many I'm sure. Their brass mileage may vary. About the dies, should have been more clear about that too.
 
With great reservation for fear of severe reprimand.

1) I always buy a go guage to match improved reamers.

2) If flaming starts see number 1

It has been said that .004 extra crush off of a standard go guage is not always a good practice- I agree.

I have also read that .030 to .040 is good crush.

The 2 Prints that I just got done looking at for a 25-06 and 25-06 improved are as follows from base to neck shoulder junction.

25-06 2.1858
25-06 Ackley 2.1818

There are versions where shoulder is moved forward and versions where shoulder is not moved forward. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE. THERE ARE NO STANDARD ACKLEY IMPROVED CHAMBERs EXCEPT 280 AI AND THE NEW STANDARD 280 AI IS NOT THE SAME AS THE "OLD" STANDARD 280 AI.

So In my humble opinion if this 25-06 improved was the above print and had the Horrible .004 crush we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Start the flames I have a Cold Beer and Marshmellows.
 
One more side note:

I talked to Dave about this subject recently and you can see it if you google Manson Reamers and search his instructions again you will see the .004 to .006 crush off of neck shoulder junction.

I would be willing to bet that Clymer and Manson reamers probably account for 50% of all ackleys that are currently being made and another 50% made in the last 20 years, its amazing that they are WRONG or just maybe these guys that build the reamers and guages know what they are doing. Just something to ponder.
 
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Hypothetically, if you have an improperly reamed chamber and know it(lacking set-back of barrel), would it be ok to just create a false shoulder and fireform your brass? Then follow with normal reloading practices bearing this not-so-unique situation?
 
Originally Posted By: travjcHypothetically, if you have an improperly reamed chamber and know it(lacking set-back of barrel), would it be ok to just create a false shoulder and fireform your brass? Then follow with normal reloading practices bearing this not-so-unique situation?

Knowing all of this, yes. The false shoulder creates the "crush" needed to correctly fire form the brass. Providing that the false shoulder is done correctly.
 
Originally Posted By: travjcHypothetically, if you have an improperly reamed chamber and know it(lacking set-back of barrel), would it be ok to just create a false shoulder and fireform your brass? Then follow with normal reloading practices bearing this not-so-unique situation?

Yes...

To make a false shoulder, you either start with a larger caliber (.270 or 280).

The set a neck sizing die so you just move the shoulder back 3/4's of the way to the shoulder (lube the neck!!). Try to chamber it. (it won't go).

Then turn the down 1/20th of a turn and continue trying it

Keep this up until the bolt starts to close a little, and then turn the die down in very small amounts (like 1/40th of a turn), until you can close the bolt with a LOT of effort.

You now have a false shoulder that matches your chamber.

Do all your cases this way, and then load them for test loads, and shoot them - when you chamber them, wipe the rounds with a cloth that is wet with light gun oil (G-96) or kerosene, so the cases will not stick to the chamber walls... they will come out of the chamber perfect!!.

If you have a bunch of 25-06 cases, get an expander and run the neck up to 264 or 270, and then follow the above instructions.

It's easier than it sounds.

 
Well, I think I'm just going to get one of these 77v MKII to match my Swift and have it chamered for the 25-06 AI. Kinda like the idea of having twins in the house. I can keep my other 25-06 Ruger Hawkeye for deer and antelope.
 
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