A-max for deer

I dont know anything about the A-max, but I do know that even though its a free country, some people need to find something better to do if all they enjoy doing on this board is make silly and useless comments, thinking they know everything and anyone who disagrees is a fool, this does nothing more than make good members want to leave.

Now, the best answer i can give you and anyone else is listen to these knowledgeable folks on here who want to help, Give em time to find your post, and you will get the answer you need. Youve been on here long enough to know that, but some new folks reading this might not have! Have a good one!
 
Don't worry about hijacking, I know people felt the same way I did regarding Jay's comments. So Jay, if you have nothing beneficial to the questions I ask how bout you just don't say anything. Or better yet, rather than a derogatory statement, how bout suggesting a better bullet?

Seems that although the A-max will work for deer, the majority say it's not a good idea to use it...so....the A-max is out, what other bullets do I need to start looking at? This is why I asked the ? in the first place, I did not want to find out the Amax is a bad bullet for deer on a deer.

t/c223encore.
 
It's hard to go wrong with a properly designed 150 grain .308 bullet for deer sized game. Hornady Interlock and SST, Sierra GameKing and ProHunter, Nosler Partition and Ballistic Tip, Barnes TSX, Speer Spitzers, Remington Core-Lokt, Winchester Power Point, and on and on. Personally, I don't buy into the real expensive premium bullets for deer class game under normal hunting conditions. With that said, I'd look real hard at the Hornady, Sierra, and Speer offerings. They're inexpensive enough to allow plenty of practice, usually much more than accurate enough, and have proven performance on game. My bench has a lot of red Hornady and green Sierra boxes on it, with a scattering of yellow Speer and occasional black Nosler box. There's also some bulk Remington Core-Lokt's around. Personally, I'd begin my load developement with Hornady Interlock and Sierra GameKing bullets. I'd bet you'll not need to look further than one of these two.
 
If you have the opportunity to try a couple different 150 gr. bullets in your gun I would go that route first. For deer size game I don't believe you need a 'premium bullet' in a .308 Win. There is no reason that Sierra GKs, Hornady SSTs, Hornady SP, Nosler BTs, Speer SPs and a host of others would not cleanly take any deer. I like Hornady SSTs because they shoot well in the guns I have tried them in. Let us know what you decide to work with.
 
I will not put down any bullet , i haven't tried myself. I haven't tried the A-Max but for those who have and had good results are the one we want to hear from and if you have used it and had bad result , i would like to hear from you also. I don't understand how you can say a bullet is no good when you haven't used it. Match bullets work better for hunting than most would think. I use the Hornady 53 gr Match HP in my 220 Swift and it gave the quickest kills of any 22 cal bullet to date that i have used in the 220 Swift.
 
between myself and 2 other shooting pards, we have access to some 40-60 permits for crop damage each summer. I will take just about any shot that I can get a range on and feel that the rangefinder is accurately hitting near the target and not in front of or behind it. That being said, from 200yds on out to wherever, the A-max has yet to lose us one single deer. Every last one of them were recovered, with the large majority being right there where they were standing.

Also, the Sierra Match King argument holds no water with me either,...I have taken multitudes of deer from the 150gr 7mm on up to the 200gr .308 SMK.

I firmly beleive they are very efficient pills, but you must take them out a few yards to get them slowed up some,..precisely why I use them for Long Range Hunting, as the bullets will have slowed up some after 300yds. YOU MUST BE accurate at long range, so the most accurate bullet is what I use. These 9 out of 10 times will be match bullets. The a-max opens up very reliably, with 400yd exit holes from my 140gr at 2900fps from a 6.5x55AI the size of anywhere from a quarter to a half dollar. The SMK's can be made more reliable by simply trimming the meplats which opens the hollow point. This is actually a measure to eliminate vertical dispersion for groups shooting, but from what I have seen, it simultaneously makes it more effective on tissue as well. The SMK has only resulted in a handful of runners, which took a short track to find them just inside the woods by 10-20yds.

Bottom line, the shooter makes the bigger difference, not the pill. I have disproven the theory of match bullets not being hunting bullets many times over. The reason for the non-hunting designation is because of lawyers. They are simply trying to give themselves denyability if/when you make a foul shot with a match bullet. With the warning, it becomes your fault and not that of their product.

I would say that I take 80% of my deer a year with match pills.
 
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Layne Simpson recently stated that more people are using the
A-Max for Deer & they sure are. I notice that some are lumping Match bullets together in one group because Sierra &
others in general are not recommending them for hunting. That is a safe bet for them as they don't know what velocity they will be used & on what animals. Also, even within the same brands the jacket thickness varies alot by cal., for example the 6.5MK's for some reason are harder than some 7's, but the 6.5 A-Max work well on Deer. Another thing, the 175MK is used by the Military & they don't really want to discuss the terminal effects of that particular bullet, but if you guys know anyone who is or recently was a Sniper then you can ask them if they had expansion problems on the skum that they have been dispatching. That's anothet reason the TAP loads are called OTM & not hollow points, gotta keep Geneva happy.However these bullets have varing expansion thresholds & Berger is now saying that SOME of their Match bullets can also be game bullets. They use a different jacket entirely than Sierra's.
The A-Max is more like a soft Bal. Tip & it's performance
is more dependent on the impact velocity than many game bullets but if you know that range & stay in it then they will work with great effect. The Bal. Tip is the same way to a lesser degree.
I would not dream of using a 150BT in my 300 mag. but the 150BT is wonderful in my Contender 30-30AI because it fits the velocity range up close & as far as I will shoot a Deer with that barrel(about 250 yards).
By the same token the A-Max is a wicked performer in a 308
for rib cage shots close & as far out as any 308 load would expand, but I would rather use the 178Gr. A-Max because it
will allow much better penetration if a shoulder is contacted, but it will expand way out their at 308 velocities, but I would NOT want to use these in my 300 unless I had a specialty long range situation.
The bottom line is the use of the A-Max is better for a
more knowledgeable shooter who understands how to maximize
the pluses & avoid the minuses & you will in some barrels get better accuracy & you have a great BC. If a Hunter does not have the desire to learn this then just buy a regular bullet, no problem.
I wanted to stay out of this at first but the main thought seemed to be that all Match bullets performed the same & that is totally inaccurate!

Just C, It look's like the MK is doing well for you & it is for many people that I know of also.
 
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Thanks so much guys for the help, got alot of bullets to look at. I'll be out of town for about a week and without internet access so I'll have to check back here when I get back home. Got a couple boxes of 150 grain federal power shok tto sight in with for starters, and I'll recycle the brass in a reload. Hey i was thinkin again and i have another question for you guys (and gals) while I'm gone.

Would it be better to find a 150 grain boat tail for reloading, or a flat base? or does it really matter?

I'll check my post when I get back home and see what you guys think, then it will be time to think about sighting in and then reloading to find my first pet load. Again thanks to you all for the help, this is more technical than just putting a primer in and some powder and a bullet and shooting than I first thought. Should be alot of fun.

t/c"the nut"223encore /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Quote:
Hornady 6th Edition Manual says the A-Max is suitable for thin skinned game.



That's all I need!! Thanks for posting that info! I have not looked at the A-Max before but will now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
You don't really tell us what conditions you'll likely be hunting under. From the description of the rifle, I'm sort of doubting it'll be for woods walking. I'm seeing it as a stand type rig, with maybe long shots on the menu? But not neccesarily? I don't know.

Boattails have a reputation for slipping the core and coming apart more so than flatbase bullets. High velocity impacts accentuate this. Really unless you're talking shots well over 300 yards, boattails don't offer a great advantage, if any. Get closer to 350 - 400 yards and they begin to come into their own. That's a mighty long shot on game, expecially from field shooting positions. The .308 probably doesn't offer enough velocity to make the core seperation a major issue unless you will be shooting at fairly close ranges. Or taking raking angle shots might also be a problem. Bonded core bullets alleviate the worry of boattails, however, these premium bullets are usually considerably more expensive and I don't see a need for them with deer size game. That's a personal view, everybody won't share that opinon. Or, maybe it's not a problem. Some people like the bullet coming apart inside the animal once enough penetration has been accomplished to ensure the vital organs are being destroyed. That type performance may well result in quicker kills on broadside shots, than a narrow straight through wound channel provided by a more "controlled expansion" bullet. I have no need for magnum performance for my deer hunting, I usually shoot middle of the road cartridges such as the .308/.30-06, and my shots are always under 100 yards in the timber. I use three .30 caliber cartridges, the .30-30 with 170 grain Remington Core-Lokt at 2,168 fps from a Marlin 336C 20" barrel lever action. Reliable killer just as it has been for a long time in the woods. A Browning BLR lever action .308 gets fed a 165 grain flat base Hornady Interlock at 2,600 fps. Doesn't get much better for midrange whitetails. It's accurate, destructive to vital tissue, penetrates completely through and leaves a good blood trail if the deer runs out of sight in the thick cover. One of my .30-06 rifles is a Ruger No. 1 and shoots the same 165 grain Hornady very accurately at 2,788 fps. A little on the mild side from the 06', however, it is very accurate and performs superbly on deer in the Ozark timber. My Browning BAR 06' loves the 180 grain Sierra spitzer boattail at 2,734 fps. That Sierra BT Game King has been a hammer on whitetails and I find no fault with it. It opens quickly and at the modest velocity the 06' pushes it, penetrates completely, and destroys a lot of important stuff inside as it does so. I've yet to recover one from a whitetail.

I use other calibers too, however, the .30's pertain more to this discussion. This is a hot topic anywhere on the net. I've seen some knock down - drag em' out fights over the "match" bullets use on game over the years on various internet sites. Also, the complete penetration vs. blow up inside topic can be hotly debated. Personally, there are so many very good accurate bullets designed for actually shooting game, I feel no need for the match bullet. I tend to be quite conservative and use what works for me based on experience and need. If I was trying to outshoot another fellow at 1,000 yards for money or a fancy title, then I'd use the most accurate bullet I could find. All that bullet need do is shoot accurately, flat, and straight. I wouldn't worry about it's terminal effectiveness on the dirt bank behind the targets. A game bullet has more responsibilities, and most shoot better than the equipment they're fired from and the person pressing the trigger can hold. That's my take on it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
sounds like fuel for a whole new thread..........the old Flat base vs. Boat tail bullets debate.....take your pick. The bullet you originally asked about is a boat tail so go with that.
 
Unless it is a buck with a nice rack that you might want to mount. Neck is no good for that purpose either.
 
If Hornady gives the ok for their A-Max bullet to be used for thin skin game then that is good enough for me . If my rifle likes them, then i will use them in my 243 for Whitetail. Around this part of the country it would take a really good buck to field dress 140 lb. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I use the 75gr Amax in my AR for competition shooting. Match bullets are made to hold together, not expand. Because of that, in competition we push them out of faster twist barrels at hotter speeds. Speeds that a hunting bullet would not always hold together. Even at that, you can still push them too fast and they will blow apart before they reach the 600yd target. Your hunting bullets are not necessarilly less accurate. They are simply made to expand upon impact. In which at higher velocities they have a lesser chance of holding together. If you are looking to shoot game at longer distances and wish to have the better long range accuracy. Then find the bullet weight you like with a higher ballistic coefficency. The BC is what helps to buck the wind and stay on its path better. Thats my .02 cents.
 
Bea175,
Not picking at you, just curious, why would you choose the A-Max over any other bullet for hunting use?
 
A-Maxes work well, just like the SMK's as long as the impact velocity is below 3400 fps, at that speed and above they are very tender, also the accubonds do very, very well in the accuracy and performance on game. I'll shoot amaxes and 142 gr smk, in my 6.5 gibbs when its complete, my 7mm allen is a good bit above the threshhold for the a-maxes so I shoot accubonds in it.
RR
 
You know, if the truth be known, a deer is just not that hard to kill. I would suggest, that ANY bullet, as long as it was not a FMJ, should handily kill any deer that walks this continent. When we get down to this kind of hair splitting about a bullets construction for thin skinned game animals, then someone has way to much time on their hands.
Really big game, by that I mean bears,elk,moose etc, then how a bullet is constructed truely comes into play, but for deer,antelope,javelina and others, a hole poked in them with any reasonably good bullet, besides a full metal jacket,if hit where you supposed to hit them, they will tip right over I promise you:)
 


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