A-max for deer

I'd pretty much agree with that in a perfect world. Perfect shot placement on an unalerted animal, no obstructions, right velocity, range, perfect judgement, ect... I'm not wanting to engage in a flame war, just an off season polite discussion between gentlemen. With that said, allow me to offer this for consideration of the congregation. With all the great bullets designed to actually shoot game, I can't fathom why there would be an actual need to choose a bullet not actually designed for such an activity. Regardless if the SMK or A-Max can actually manage to work alright on thin skinned game under ideal conditions, really, aren't there choices better suited for this application? Aren't there enough bullets designed for game shooting that combine accuracy, flat trajectories, and reliable terminal performance on game animals with some lee way for less than "perfect world shots". The Hornady Interlock BT and SST, Sierra's Game King BT and HPBT Game King are renowned for their accuracy and flat shooting capabilites. As well as quickly and dependably penetrating and wrecking vital tissue and providing for effecient kills. The Barnes TSX and Swift Scirrocco are also getting lot's of press for wonderful accuracy and string like trajectories per given cartridge. Not to mention the tales I hear of their deadly terminal effectiviness. Nosler's Partition may not be the flattest shooting bullet, however, it's proven terminal performance is legendary and a benchmark for all other bullets. With time the Accubond may prove itself as good with better trajectories. If violent expansion and accuracy are wanted, the Ballistic Tip might be a perfect choice. There are probably more, but my point is - why choose a question mark and a bullet that may leave you a bit short on performance when the less than ideal shot presents itself? Or simply happens as Mr. Murphy is wont to impose on hapless hunters occasionally. Why A-Max? Is that more of a stunt than a concern for the best choice and most effective and reliable bullet for consistent humane harvest? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Interesting,and thoughtful missive; but I'll hold the cards I got....a deer, just ain't that hard to kill I just can't get excited over splitting hairs on the subtle differences in the myraid of bullets available to do it with.
 
I was very intrigued by your question...

I also use a .308 (Model 70) with a 26" (Heavy Varmint) bull barrel, and LOVE it!

And, I DO USE the 155 grain A-Max, loaded with Reloader 15.

It is a BRILLIANTLY accurate round, and has proven to be devastating ON COYOTES... One bullet, recovered after skinning, had only the copper jacket in tact. Presumably, the rest of the bullet fragmented inside the wound channel.

I hunt Coyotes to KILL COYOTES.

I hunt Deer to EAT THE MEAT.

I don't believe I care to pick lead out of my steaks...

For this reason, my DEER load is the 150 Grain Hornady Interlock.

It is loaded EXACTLY the same the A-Max load (with IDENTICAL point of impact), but the BULLET is intended for GAME (Meat) animals, not VARMINTS.

I applaud your interest in ACCURACY, and have found the Interlock frequently grouping 3 or 4 (out of 5) touching at 100 hundred yards. Groups at 200 are also excellent.

The A-Max would probably work fine for a broadside lung shot. But, who can guarantee such an opportunity?

With the "fragmentation" found on that Coyote, I doubt the A-Max would be satisfactory if used on a Deer FROM THE FRONT. I see no need to take the chance.

In summary: The A-Max IS a GREAT bullet, and MIGHT work brilliantly on Deer. But, it is INTENDED for TARGETS. The Interlock is intended for DEER sized GAME animals, and the difference in ACCURACY (if any) will not be a problem.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck and success!
 
you are forgetting that the 155gr a-max in 308cal has a much lower sectional density than the heavier 30cal offerings as well as a much lower SD than the 7mm and 6.5mm a-max pills.

I have run the a-max from stem to stern through the deer with no blowups, but mine are 6.5mm and 7mm and the pards is the 178gr from a 300win. We havn't had a core seperation yet,..every bullet exits. Even 400yds last week, all 3 deer had exit wounds, as did those shot at 200yds.

Also, when using my match grade tubes, I load for paper punching with match bullets, so to not use up barrel life, I hunt with the match pills rather than run another load ladder for the new bullet. By the time you have a match tube cut and chambered as well as crowned and breaked, it is just a bit to much of an investment to go running extra rounds down the bore to simply switch to a dedicated meat bullet when the match pills do the job.

I don't see it as an experiment that is unethical or having no reason, I approach it from the match shooting angle, and then if I decide to hunt with that rig, I just use what is already shooting well in it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
the sierra match kings( smk's) and the hornady accuracy max(A-Max's) get they're name honest, in most highly accurate rifles, they go exactly where they are pointed, if you put a bullet exactly where it needs to be, do you need controlled expansion for hunting whitetails?
Nobody would take a full dead away shot at a deer with a match bullet but for the typical broadside pretty sunday shot does it matter that much?
At 500 yds where I can pic my shot, I want a bullet that will go where its sposed to opposed to one that will hit a 6" circle, just MHO
RR
 
Quote:
the sierra match kings( smk's) and the hornady accuracy max(A-Max's) get they're name honest, in most highly accurate rifles, they go exactly where they are pointed, if you put a bullet exactly where it needs to be, do you need controlled expansion for hunting whitetails?
Nobody would take a full dead away shot at a deer with a match bullet but for the typical broadside pretty sunday shot does it matter that much?
At 500 yds where I can pic my shot, I want a bullet that will go where its sposed to opposed to one that will hit a 6" circle, just MHO
RR



RR,
Respectfully, do you choose a .308 for 500 yard deer hunting? Is that an ethical shot to take from field shooting positions? You mention that perfect world shot I was talking about above, you called it a "pretty sunday shot." What if the buck of a life time isn't standing at the perfect "pretty sunday shot" angle? How many have the nerve to watch him walk away because the shot isn't perfect and not try to drive that highly frangiable match bullet from a rearward raking angle into the vitals. Maybe a Hornady Interlock has just enough moxie to hit behind the last rib and drive through a bit of paunch to reach the lungs and break the off side shoulder. You have to watch the 170" 200 pound ten point browse slowly away because of your bullet choice. Why the handicap? Just asking... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
GC the fact is most of those kind of guys would take the shot anyway. As the wounded animal left the scene they'd track aways and then more than likely just look for another target. I've seen it happen before.
 
I would NOT try a 500 yard shot in field conditions.

The A-Max that fragmented is a load that chronographs at 2900 fps, and was 180 yards downrange when it hit that Coyote.

From what I've read here (and I'm no expert) the bullet should've held together better at such a low velocity. And, yet it came completely apart after only 12"-14" of penetration into the body. It hit the front between the neck and left shoulder, and stopped just inside, near the right hip. Even if it hit bone... How much bone can a Coyote have compared to a Deer?

Say what you like. I've got a 155 A-Max and a 150 Interlock traveling identical speeds, with identical point of impact. My zero is the same for both. I carry the intended bullet for the intended target and don't lose any sleep over it.

I won't fault anyone for using the A-Max on Deer (a good friend, and avid reloader) HIGHLY recommends it. But, I choose not to do it.

Whatever you use, I hope you have a good clean kill, and plenty of meat in the freezer.
 
These type discussions can often lead to members experimenting in areas they were unfamiliar with, I find that lends itself to education. As long as the name calling and or profanity is forgone, some folks might just come away with a new bit of knowledge, or the desire to try something new. JMHO

to clarify, my shots at distance are from a shooting bench. I carry one in the truck, one in the trunk of the car, and have 2 built which remain at one of the farms. That is my particular "field position". The front is supported by the Bald Eagle rest, and the rear by a Protector rear bag,...no offhanded or leaning up against a tree shots here.
 
No, that's not what I said. However, shooting and hunting are two different things. One is paper and one is a live animal that we have an obligation to harvest as humanely as possible. I graduated a sniper/counter sniper school with a bull barreled .308 and made good hits at 600 yards. With that knowledge and experience, it would definately not be my pick of a long range hunting cartridge. In fact, many military snipers are now using more powerful cartridges for such distances. Simply, there are cartridges with flatter trajectories, less wind drift, and provide more energy at impact than the .308 at such distances. IMHO, that would make them better suited for long range hunting. Why not choose one of them? Even with those rounds, 500 yards is a long hunting poke from field shooting positions. Now, for targets, sure, why not it's paper. And the A-Max would shine for this application.

Why are you "not saying any more."? It's a civil discussion, share...
 
I have found this discussion informative AND entertaining (with only a couple of exceptions). It is EXACTLY why I joined this Site to begin with.

For the purposes of THIS discussion, it would probably be appropriate to STAY ON TOPIC (".308 A-Max for Deer?").

A LOT of intelligently expressed "opinions", which I have enjoyed a great deal.

Thanks to ALL who have contributed.

"Let's play nice." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
well if 600 yds was as far as you made hits with a 308, than you didn't graduate from sniper school.
To pass the final test you must make 1 shot kills on man sized targets at 1000 meters, and man sized moving targets( target only 12" wide at 800 meters. Didn't I just read about the record being set for a 1 shot kill in Iraq over 1000 yds by a marine sniper with a 308?
No I don't use a 308, but it is capable, and a live target at 500 yds isn't that hard if you practice and know your weapon.
I use a custom 7mm caliber that shoots tabletop flat as possible but its not needed, whats needed is knoledge of where your bullet will hit at any given range, not rely on the 8" trajectory window that average shooters use.
My smith just took a half grown rockchuck with his new rifle on the 4th shot at 2370 yds ( thats a mile and 3/8's)
why is everyone so judgemental to those who have the confidance, ability, and the desire add distance to ethical hunting?
The ballistics don't get real complicated till the range exceeds 700-800 yds. if your not sure of the outcome don't pull the trigger, don't give me the anything can happen routine cause thats the case everytime you push the safety off, for the most part "we let it happen" by not being prepared.
I've taken dozens of deer at ranges beyond what some hunters call ethical, how many shots have "I muffed it" on? 1, over adjusted the elevation once year ago and overshot a doe at 579 yds, killed one that was just beyond her. so what did I do, practised till it was second nature. thats what LR hunters do, we have to strive to achieve a greater hit ratio than average, cause the average guys are judging us.
RR
 
Quote:
t/c"the nut"223encore /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



TC-- that's one of the best comments i've ever seen on any forum i've ever been on. Thrifty use of vocabulary, yet right to the point. You are the King of Touche'! You know, you oughtta make that your signature. Heck i would. Very educational-----we can only hope!!!!!
 
Quote:
well if 600 yds was as far as you made hits with a 308, than you didn't graduate from sniper school.



Hold on hoss, you don't know what class I attended. It wasn't military, it was law enforcement. Assumptions are dangerous things, sorta leave your azz hanging out. To get back on target here, do you kill a lot of deer with the A-Max? If not, what bullet are you actually shooting? I'm interested in your experiences. I find it interesting that you've only "muffed" one shot out of dozens at such ranges. To what do you owe such a sterling track record? Would you trade your hot 7mm for a .308 and the A-Max for such hunting? If not, could you elaborate why? School me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Quote:
we have to strive to achieve a greater hit ratio than average, cause the average guys are judging us.
RR



All this time I thought a hunter strived to make a clean kill because it is the ethical thing to do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 


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