hoosierdaddy
New member
Sheesh!...you guys are still at it? My wife and I don't bicker this much.
BTW, my dog's better than your dog...
BTW, my dog's better than your dog...
Cooper or Kimber?????
- Thread starter philip
- Start date
claimbuster
New member
As a great fan of Cooper rifles, I hope the answer to the "free" barrel question is no. To my way of thinking, which is not always popular, asking Cooper to replace my burned out barrels is quite similar to asking Ford or Chevy to replace the tires on my new car because they wore out. Please do not confuse replacing what I have worn out with warranty work. These are two distinctly different topics. Cooper is a small business trying to survive in our Wal-Mart world. Cooper is a firm composed of a small group of dedicated people (no more than 15 or so) who are committed to producing the best production grade rifles in the world. I know this because I visited their operation in Stevensville, MT last week. Guys, I don't have the "cojones" or lack of integrity to ask a small business, like Cooper, for a free ride. I'll pay my own way, thank you. Now if they want to make a re-barrel service available to me that is priced fairly, I thank them.
Hoosierdaddy --- I'll put my poodle up against your dog any ole day.
Hoosierdaddy --- I'll put my poodle up against your dog any ole day.
Feez
New member
Whew, what a relief. This discussion was going downhill.
But now that it's a good ole argument about dogs, I'll rejoin the fun.
My blue tick coon hound has a better smeller than your lilly white city dogs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif And he looks better too. His name is Maximus, after the guy in Gladiator.
But now that it's a good ole argument about dogs, I'll rejoin the fun.
My blue tick coon hound has a better smeller than your lilly white city dogs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif And he looks better too. His name is Maximus, after the guy in Gladiator.
claimbuster
New member
Wait just a second. My poodle is only white after a bath, then he is mud color most of the time. Don't know much about his smeller other than he can find a 1/4# stick of butter on the kitchen counter no matter how well it is hidden. He is tall enough that he can get food off the counters even when placed all the way to the back. His name is Jake, you know named after....Jake.
You are right about a good dog argument it has more merit and is a hell of a lot more fun.
Never take life too seriously as the outcome in the end is always the same.
You are right about a good dog argument it has more merit and is a hell of a lot more fun.
Never take life too seriously as the outcome in the end is always the same.
Quote:
I have reread this entire thread again, and cannot for the life of me figure out where you are coming from Savage_99. Obviously you have had really good experience with Kimber rifles, and that is great. Others have had really good experiences with Cooper rifles, and that too is great. Why do you see it necessary to call into question anyone's integrity? Nobody has intentionally insulted you, mocked you, or even called you names. Can we have an adult conversation here?
I see the posts by BCB as a slam against Kimber rifles. Since I have had good fortune with Kimber rifles I spoke up. My posts indicate that I have seen defects in Cooper rifles. Neither brand is perfect by the way.
I also stated that since Cooper rifles cost more than Kimber rifles that they might shoot better and that would include the fact that Cooper CF's are single shot bolt action rifles.
Then there is the post by BCB that Cooper will replace a worn out barrel free. I asked to see this in writing as it would be a benfit to owning one. In fact BCB mentioned it as a benefit.
Later one accused me of something and if you read over the posts you will find that I am asking BCB to post in writing that Cooper will replace worn out barrels free of charge.
Until he does that who can believe what he says?
I would buy a Cooper rifle but to be frank I felt that they did not have a good reputation. After reading here of all the satisfied owners of Coopers I have changed my mind and I would look closer at them.
If indeed Cooper replaces barrels for free then just post the policy with the details and referance who wrote it at Cooper. It's just business like to do that.
"Remember this is all just for fun"
I have reread this entire thread again, and cannot for the life of me figure out where you are coming from Savage_99. Obviously you have had really good experience with Kimber rifles, and that is great. Others have had really good experiences with Cooper rifles, and that too is great. Why do you see it necessary to call into question anyone's integrity? Nobody has intentionally insulted you, mocked you, or even called you names. Can we have an adult conversation here?
I see the posts by BCB as a slam against Kimber rifles. Since I have had good fortune with Kimber rifles I spoke up. My posts indicate that I have seen defects in Cooper rifles. Neither brand is perfect by the way.
I also stated that since Cooper rifles cost more than Kimber rifles that they might shoot better and that would include the fact that Cooper CF's are single shot bolt action rifles.
Then there is the post by BCB that Cooper will replace a worn out barrel free. I asked to see this in writing as it would be a benfit to owning one. In fact BCB mentioned it as a benefit.
Later one accused me of something and if you read over the posts you will find that I am asking BCB to post in writing that Cooper will replace worn out barrels free of charge.
Until he does that who can believe what he says?
I would buy a Cooper rifle but to be frank I felt that they did not have a good reputation. After reading here of all the satisfied owners of Coopers I have changed my mind and I would look closer at them.
If indeed Cooper replaces barrels for free then just post the policy with the details and referance who wrote it at Cooper. It's just business like to do that.
"Remember this is all just for fun"
Todd M.
New member
Following is a complete cut and paste of the e-mail reply I received today from Dan at Cooper. My only modification to his e-mail has been to insert *** in my personal e-mail adress for web-crawler protection. I have the original e-mail for any of you who choose to challenge my credibility. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Todd
Todd,
We will warranty the barrel for the life of the original owner. We will
either rechamber or rebarrel the rifle to get it back to our accuracy
guarantee.
Hope this helps,
Dan Pickett
Cooper Arms
-----Original Message-----
From: TJMAY1***@aol.com [mailto:TJMAY1***@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:30 PM
To: Dan Pickett
Subject: Warranty question
There is a discussion regarding Cooper rifles and barrel warranty on
PredatorMasters website. The question is whether Cooper would replace a
barrel on a rifle that has been properly cared for, yet shot until no
longer accurate. Could you elaborate on your policy regarding a
worn-out, yet properly maintained barrel?
Thanks in advance,
Todd May
Tjmay1***@aol.com
Todd M. on PredatorMasters website
Todd,
We will warranty the barrel for the life of the original owner. We will
either rechamber or rebarrel the rifle to get it back to our accuracy
guarantee.
Hope this helps,
Dan Pickett
Cooper Arms
-----Original Message-----
From: TJMAY1***@aol.com [mailto:TJMAY1***@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 10:30 PM
To: Dan Pickett
Subject: Warranty question
There is a discussion regarding Cooper rifles and barrel warranty on
PredatorMasters website. The question is whether Cooper would replace a
barrel on a rifle that has been properly cared for, yet shot until no
longer accurate. Could you elaborate on your policy regarding a
worn-out, yet properly maintained barrel?
Thanks in advance,
Todd May
Tjmay1***@aol.com
Todd M. on PredatorMasters website
2muchgun
New member
Thank you Todd, from the bottom of my heart, for stopping the bleeding /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gifNot that I ever doubted BCB's or DAA's word in the first place. Cooper sounds like a company that really wants to make their clients happy. Very respectable. I've seen this type of phenomena before in smaller companies hell-bent on trying to make a name for themselves. Usually after they get big, such policies disappear. Let's hope it doesn't, but only time will tell...--2MG
Bayou City Boy
New member
For anyone who is interested, Dan Pickett is the gentleman who oversees everyday operations when Dan Cooper is out and about doing company business. Rob Behr is another individual who will help a registered owner of a Cooper rifle get the most for their money, as I'm sure any of their other employees will also.
I have benefitted from Cooper's very generous customer service in the past so I knew it was not a "figment of someone's imagination". However, since I don't work for Cooper in any way - I only spend money on their products when I can - it was not my place to speak for them directly or publish their policies just to satisfy someone else.
Notice that Dan's note states accuracy back to their web site published accuracy guarantees.
Thanks for doing the leg work, Todd. When I saw your posting about the e-mail you had sent, I kinda' figured you would get an answer that everyone could understand. Even if my credibility might suffer with some folks in the meantime.
Thanks again - BCB
I have benefitted from Cooper's very generous customer service in the past so I knew it was not a "figment of someone's imagination". However, since I don't work for Cooper in any way - I only spend money on their products when I can - it was not my place to speak for them directly or publish their policies just to satisfy someone else.
Notice that Dan's note states accuracy back to their web site published accuracy guarantees.
Thanks for doing the leg work, Todd. When I saw your posting about the e-mail you had sent, I kinda' figured you would get an answer that everyone could understand. Even if my credibility might suffer with some folks in the meantime.
Thanks again - BCB
"Todd,
We will warranty the barrel for the life of the original owner. We will
either rechamber or rebarrel the rifle to get it back to our accuracy
guarantee.
Hope this helps,
Dan Pickett
Cooper Arms"
Good for you guys on following thru on this. It's a most unusual guarantee and really seemed too good to be true. In fact I can't see how they will go on with it. For instance it would be quite easy to shoot a 243 enough in one year to erode it up a couple of inches.
Cooper has a narrow niche that appeals only really to plinkers and varmint hunters. Those groups can really fire a lot of shots.
Thanks again.
We will warranty the barrel for the life of the original owner. We will
either rechamber or rebarrel the rifle to get it back to our accuracy
guarantee.
Hope this helps,
Dan Pickett
Cooper Arms"
Good for you guys on following thru on this. It's a most unusual guarantee and really seemed too good to be true. In fact I can't see how they will go on with it. For instance it would be quite easy to shoot a 243 enough in one year to erode it up a couple of inches.
Cooper has a narrow niche that appeals only really to plinkers and varmint hunters. Those groups can really fire a lot of shots.
Thanks again.
NM Leon
New member
Quote:
Good for you guys on following thru on this. It's a most unusual guarantee and really seemed too good to be true. In fact I can't see how they will go on with it. For instance it would be quite easy to shoot a 243 enough in one year to erode it up a couple of inches.
Cooper has a narrow niche that appeals only really to plinkers and varmint hunters. Those groups can really fire a lot of shots.
Thanks again.
After all the flames this is the response?
Hey Savage, do you work for/sell or are you looking for a job with Kimber? Wow.
Jim, your dog may be able to scent track food at the back of the counter but I bet my dog's fleas are smarter than your dog's fleas.
Leon
Good for you guys on following thru on this. It's a most unusual guarantee and really seemed too good to be true. In fact I can't see how they will go on with it. For instance it would be quite easy to shoot a 243 enough in one year to erode it up a couple of inches.
Cooper has a narrow niche that appeals only really to plinkers and varmint hunters. Those groups can really fire a lot of shots.
Thanks again.
After all the flames this is the response?
Hey Savage, do you work for/sell or are you looking for a job with Kimber? Wow.
Jim, your dog may be able to scent track food at the back of the counter but I bet my dog's fleas are smarter than your dog's fleas.
Leon
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
Pretty much everything has been said.
Settle back, relax, have a drink, whatever.
Nobody really meant to insult anybody here. Just the not unusual, slight misunderstandings that happen on BBS's.
As the youngns say "chill out."
Jack
Settle back, relax, have a drink, whatever.
Nobody really meant to insult anybody here. Just the not unusual, slight misunderstandings that happen on BBS's.
As the youngns say "chill out."
Jack
claimbuster
New member
Quote:
Jim, your dog may be able to scent track food at the back of the counter but I bet my dog's fleas are smarter than your dog's fleas.
Leon
Leon, never thought about that flea thing before. I'll need some help here. How does one recognize a smart flea from one that is not so smart? Suppose I could give them a test?
Jim, your dog may be able to scent track food at the back of the counter but I bet my dog's fleas are smarter than your dog's fleas.
Leon
Leon, never thought about that flea thing before. I'll need some help here. How does one recognize a smart flea from one that is not so smart? Suppose I could give them a test?
claimbuster
New member
Hell, I got more and bigger fleas than my dog!
"Todd,
We will warranty the barrel for the life of the original owner. We will
either rechamber or rebarrel the rifle to get it back to our accuracy
guarantee."
This is still hard to believe. Here is the factory quote on accuracy
"All other centerfires are guaranteed to shoot 1/2" 3- shot groups at 100 yards using hand loaded ammunition."
Thats a really tough spec.
As to a flame. Show me where I flamed anyone. When I questioned the so called free barrel I was accused of a free lunch when it was BCB who brought it up.
In any case I am a fan of Kimber but I am for any company that cares. What I had read about Cooper was that they don't care but that may have changed and good for us if it has.
"While I have no doubt the rifles are as accurate as I have read, unfortunately, I did not think their appearance was up to semi-custom standards. My chief disappointment was with the barrels that commonly were not centered in the barrel channel. They have also apparenly changed their checkering approach away from wrap-around checkering in favor of panels. I have nothing against Ruger rifles, but when I buy a semi-custom, I expect better than Ruger checkering. I ended up not buying anything, which was another disappointment.
Serious question: why is it so hard for rifle/stockmakers to get the barrel centered in the channel?"
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...fles#Post351253
We will warranty the barrel for the life of the original owner. We will
either rechamber or rebarrel the rifle to get it back to our accuracy
guarantee."
This is still hard to believe. Here is the factory quote on accuracy
"All other centerfires are guaranteed to shoot 1/2" 3- shot groups at 100 yards using hand loaded ammunition."
Thats a really tough spec.
As to a flame. Show me where I flamed anyone. When I questioned the so called free barrel I was accused of a free lunch when it was BCB who brought it up.
In any case I am a fan of Kimber but I am for any company that cares. What I had read about Cooper was that they don't care but that may have changed and good for us if it has.
"While I have no doubt the rifles are as accurate as I have read, unfortunately, I did not think their appearance was up to semi-custom standards. My chief disappointment was with the barrels that commonly were not centered in the barrel channel. They have also apparenly changed their checkering approach away from wrap-around checkering in favor of panels. I have nothing against Ruger rifles, but when I buy a semi-custom, I expect better than Ruger checkering. I ended up not buying anything, which was another disappointment.
Serious question: why is it so hard for rifle/stockmakers to get the barrel centered in the channel?"
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...fles#Post351253
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