Custom Rifle builder sides with PETA

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I haven't been traveling around on the boards lately (except for a couple of my old forums here on PM). This was just brought to my attention. I must admit to being disappointed with DC on this .... VERY disappointed. With that being said I completely agree with jimanaz and Kodiak61. There is no way that ultra conservative DC could have turned this hunt in to PITA or any other ultra liberal group. I'm sure it is a horrible joke gone terribly wrong. DC is usually a fairly clear thinker, but this is a bit beyond me to explain, I won't even try. I also completely agree that he has gone over the top with the issue he had with Redfrog, I've also had my issues, but I told him he was wrong and he should find some sort of peace. Honestly I don't think he has it in him, once he grabs on he will never let go.

I do know this, I asked him directly if he had anything to do with the article written about the last years hunt Globe hunt and he said NO! He thought the story came out of a hunt in south eastern Arizona where the author was in attendance. I believe him. It all made sense. I thought the article was fairly well written and over all balanced, at least for a hunting article written around here. I’m sure that’s where PITA and others got involved. Like I said, he swears he didn’t do it and I absolutely believe he wouldn’t actually send a letter to PITA, that doesn’t mean that I think he should have posted what he did, it was wrong and in bad taste.

Bearmanric – I’m not exactly sure what I did to you. You are implying that since I have associated with DC, yes I’ve even called him “friend”, I somehow share in his poor judgment. Truth is, I hate this sort of thing, I hate the way DC exploits his issues with Redfrog.

As far as PITA or anybody else protesting the hunt is concerned. I knew nothing about that until Redfrog said the Reservation would in no way not allow it proetests. Any other accusations you have for me are honestly a bit off base. Sure DC allowed me to use his rifle, but in reality, other than the great scope, the rifle was really no better than any other AR on the line. I know one thing, I’m not the shot I once was…
 
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It's disappointing to find that there is someone out there who would actually find humor and think it was a good idea to send that thing along in Rick's name. What a meaningful life that person (and I use the term loosely) must have to add that to his list of accomplishments. It's too bad whoever is responsible is actually taking up space and breathing oxygen that could be used to support meaningful life.

It's a shame that the responsible party will never lay claim to his heroic deed. He's too busy giggling from under his rock and the 1 or 2 people he may have confided in are too embarrassed to admit they know him.

Nice work champ. You're a true asset to the community. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif



I knew there was a reason I liked you, I kept telling myself it couldn't be his good looks.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Well said man, of the people I met at the last PM hunt Rick by far had to be one of the nicest I met there, if not one of the nicest people I have met in a long time. I really use the term "Gentle Giant" is a positive way.
 
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Guess I'm a little late to the dance.And yes,Dc if you want to dance you've got to pay the fiddler.Now this may seem to be addressed to DC and you can be assured he will be up till the early hours reading this thread and seething with his vile soup of hate.Now, before you get the wrong impression,yes I know him personally.Been in his shop several times,purchased more than one rifle from the man.Had terrible luck with one of them,actually,it was by far the worse rifle I ever had in my hands.That was not just my opinion, as several other very knowledgeable folks looked it over and concurred.I returned it and he refunded my money.I then ordered a custom built AR with a miracle Shilen barrel from the man,based on his personal guarantee for 1/2 MOA.As it turned out that weapon was no better than 1"to 1.25" MOA.I have purchased several Tikkas and Savages that off the shelf shoot way better, at considerably less money. However, I didn't complain,didn't ask for my money back,it sits in the safe and the Bushmaster gets the call.My point here is this,some have called him a Gun manufacturer,that just is not the case,any more than the guy down the street who repairs cars under that shade tree.
Some have objected to Redfrog suggesting he was a member of Peta.Better go back and reread that first post, he never said it.I did not sign up for Predatormunsters because it is such a gloomy place,where most of the posters turn out to be folks who were booted here,and wish to prove their manhood by using foul language.Its a little club mentality and if you don't agree with their group think you will be called every name in the book.
The real problem here is that most of the members there are absolutely obsessed with PM, and the few posts they get each week are all complaining about PM.DC did in fact post those posts and someone did indeed forward a request for PETA to intervene and used Ric Robbins address.What scumbags you guys are who are involved with that.Not man enough to take your stand,you've got to involve Ric and try to make him the fall guy.

Yes, I know DC and unlike some of his close buddies taking up for him,I wouldn't put it past him to have pulled this stunt himself, and frankly the problem with the rez also,regardless of what he denies.He also denies being obsessed about PM.One thing cannot be denied,he is mentally unstable,he cannot control his anger,and has done great harm to the sport we love.For that he should be ashamed.
 
The nice thing about a thread like this is that my stock in the Pitchfork and Torch company is going up. Seriously though it really looks like the whole origination of this is really being taken out of context. I don't know the person in question but I in no way believe that he is a supporter of PETA and not sure how it is seen that way from the posts. Bad choice of words yes but my gawd how many have said something similar and don't expect to be crucifed. I know, blah blah blah he is in the business, blah blah blah he represents the industry, blah blah blah he is going to get all of our guns taken away. C'mon get real, this whole thing obviously is the result of a squabble between two people. I actually find it more despicable that this was started by the admin of this site. It was a (bad) comment by an individual and is clearly being used by this site to "Zumbo" the person. If this thread were started by a single person I'd be better with it rather than the nameless PM Administrator using it to point out the evil that walks among us. This just really looks like it is being used for vengence.

Pardon my ramblings, let the witch burning continue.
 
paraphrasing pres obama on abortion @ notre dame "can't we just find some common ground"

quote from andrew regarding capt ahab letter on PM
"spun to reflect"
"little grudge"
"off season drama"
i think you should actually have a serious talk with your
"consider him a friend"
not about your friendship but about his judasness
(these kinda folks end up hanging themselves you know)

good luck with that

guero
 
after wasting 10 min. of my life reading this stuff, all I can say is...

the internet - it's serious business!
 
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after wasting 10 min. of my life reading this stuff, all I can say is...

the internet - it's serious business!




internet-24591.jpg


internet-serious-business.jpg


normal_internet-seriousbusiness.jpg


internet_serious_business_framed.jpg



And in closing, the all time greatest:

Someone_Is_Wrong_On_The_Internet.jpg
 
Did anyone stop to think that RedFrogs reaction was exactly what Dan was after. Im a little disapointed that the post was from PM Administration and not Redfrog himself then again maybe all the moderators are involved in this little grudge match. I really doubt the later is the case. I do know if I posted something like this on this many different threads I would be warned about a TOS violation This little post and what its turned into has shined badly on all of us on this forum and hunters in general. No wonder we seem to lose ground the other side is united to achieve their goal and your worried about recruiting help with your little grudge match trying to ruin a mans reputation. Grow up get over it and remember we are all on the same side.

I wanted to edit a little its late and Im tired I think maybe my original word grudge was a little harsh although its obvious that theres some bad blood between the individuals involved. I just want to make the point we are all on the same side with the same goals in mind lets just not lose sight of what those goals are. If DC really did contact PETA then so be it he didnt tell them anything the HSUS and every other group that lurks on this forum didnt already know. Its this site that is giving them the satisfaction of us bickering like little girls over something that in the grand scheme of this is meaningless. Dan if your wandering around here and read this please let it go its just not worth the energy.
 
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just for the record, that is an actual photo of me, 3rd one down in Kodiak61's montage

and...YES, the internet IS serious business. Don't make me stay up all hours of the night IM'ing you!
 
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Guess I'm a little late to the dance.And yes,Dc if you want to dance you've got to pay the fiddler.Now this may seem to be addressed to DC and you can be assured he will be up till the early hours reading this thread and seething with his vile soup of hate.Now, before you get the wrong impression,yes I know him personally.Been in his shop several times,purchased more than one rifle from the man.Had terrible luck with one of them,actually,it was by far the worse rifle I ever had in my hands.That was not just my opinion, as several other very knowledgeable folks looked it over and concurred.I returned it and he refunded my money.I then ordered a custom built AR with a miracle Shilen barrel from the man,based on his personal guarantee for 1/2 MOA.As it turned out that weapon was no better than 1"to 1.25" MOA.I have purchased several Tikkas and Savages that off the shelf shoot way better, at considerably less money. However, I didn't complain,didn't ask for my money back,it sits in the safe and the Bushmaster gets the call.My point here is this,some have called him a Gun manufacturer,that just is not the case,any more than the guy down the street who repairs cars under that shade tree.
Some have objected to Redfrog suggesting he was a member of Peta.Better go back and reread that first post, he never said it.I did not sign up for Predatormunsters because it is such a gloomy place,where most of the posters turn out to be folks who were booted here,and wish to prove their manhood by using foul language.Its a little club mentality and if you don't agree with their group think you will be called every name in the book.
The real problem here is that most of the members there are absolutely obsessed with PM, and the few posts they get each week are all complaining about PM.DC did in fact post those posts and someone did indeed forward a request for PETA to intervene and used Ric Robbins address.What scumbags you guys are who are involved with that.Not man enough to take your stand,you've got to involve Ric and try to make him the fall guy.

Yes, I know DC and unlike some of his close buddies taking up for him,I wouldn't put it past him to have pulled this stunt himself, and frankly the problem with the rez also,regardless of what he denies.He also denies being obsessed about PM.One thing cannot be denied,he is mentally unstable,he cannot control his anger,and has done great harm to the sport we love.For that he should be ashamed.




If I recall properly I have heard about this situation in talking with Dan before Lyle.

The first rifle you purchased from Dan was a used DPMS upper that he had at his shop. It did not have one of his barrels on it and he gave you a deal on the upper for $400.

When you returned it your friend stated that you had probaly 300 rounds down the barrel without cleaning it. That is 300 rounds of surplus regular off the shelf ammo, not reloads or something fancy. Again this is just the story as it was told to me. He did however refund your $400 and then you ordered one of his builds, the rifle which you still have today in .204.

As many at the egg shoot can attest too, I cant shoot for a crud. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif However my DC barrel in a vice is a tac driver, when I take out the human equation, the rifle that Dan built for me is amazing, now if only I can learn to shoot it like I know it can perform. According to you post I guess I just got lucky.

Again, to be clear to all I DO NOT AGREE WITH DAN, WHAT HE POSTED OR WHAT HE HOW HE CHOSEN TO FIGHT THIS LITTLE BATTLE OF HIS. I do however also not agree with people just bandwagon jumping and trying to bad mouth him on things that are not true. As I have stated before, bash him all you like on the things has he done wrong, but please keep it honest. This is what I'm "sticking up" for him on.

The internet is definately serious business.
 
so heres a question for you. If you turn your ex wife into the IRS for cheating on her taxes are you siding with the IRS or picking on the exwife.
 
azmastablasta:
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Some have objected to Redfrog suggesting he was a member of Peta.


I just went back and re-read the whole thread and didn't see that anywhere. Could you point out what I'm missing?

Oh, and since you took the opportunity to turn this into a review of Dan's work, I'd like a little more info on that too. Could you tell us a little more about the rifles you bought from Dan? You know, basic stuff like caliber, configuration, how you glassed them, what ammo you ran through them...things like that. Sounds like he made the first deal right with you and it just doesn't make sense to me that you would spend $700 on a custom upper that you couldn't make shoot to your satisfaction and then just put it in your safe. I bet Dan would make that deal right too, and then you could go out and buy another Tikka or Savage that would make you happy. For some reason I smell a rat.

The reason some of us are taking up for Dan here is because he can't. Surely that wouldn't be the reason you seized the moment and started running smack about his rifles, or is it?

According to your assessment of Dan's personality disorders, you seem to have some similar qualities. Many of your posts here are kind of PredatorMonster like without the foul language. You know...angry, condescending, argumentative, opportunistic, slanted, etc.

If you decide to reply to this, please do me a favor. Try to mix in a tap of the spacebar here and there. It makes for much easier reading.

Edited to add:
I need to learn how to type faster. Andrew covered some of the details but I'm still anxious to see what azmastablasta has to say.
 
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In the first place Andrew,you don't recall anything properly as you were never involved or present at any transaction that took place at Dan's.It's obvious that you guys have been burning the midnite oil to try to cover for your bud.Hey man, thats ok,thats what are buds for.You must realize however that you have effectively removed yourself from having any credibility in this discussion.Now if you go back and reread my post you will see that I gave the man credit for refunding my money on that first POS.And yes I suppose you could say it was just a spare he had around the shop,however, he did tell us that he had shot many rounds through it and it was a 1/2" shooter.He tried to blame it on my new vx 7 Leuopold that had to be bad,ok,I sent it back to their shop,they said nothing wrong, but here's another just in case.He came up with every excuse in the book and offered to refund the money or put it toward one of his miracle shilen barrels.I said ok.And Andrew, if your memory is still serving you well you will also remember that he was also building another one for a friend of mine. Both rifles came back within a few days of each other and neither rifle was any where near the 1/2" promised.That's ok, burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.If you classify Dan as a gunsmith then its painfully evident that you've never been around a real gunsmith.He orders parts from various places and puts them together, just like many guys do here at PM.The only machining I've seen from his shop is barrel fluting,and yes, he does a nice job of that.But man, give me a break,you and your buddies circling the wagons and claiming his nobleness is pathetic.From listening to you guys tell it I expect to see him hand in hand with Obama walking to shore from 2 miles out.Oh, and Andrew,that memory of yours,does it also recall the hilarious afternoon in Dan's garage,when after listening to him slobber all over himself while praising his WT caller, I went to the truck and got my FX-5 for a comparison test? Do you remember how that went down?Naw, I didn't think so,but just for laughs I'll fill you in.Obviously, being that he's your guy,the one you'd,let's see, how did that go,oh yeah,Ride the River with,being so close you surely know his feelings about Foxpro.Dan sets up his WT pulls out his remote and then can't remember how to make it work,he pulls out a little flip card book because he can't remember where the various sounds are, and after a period of time, finally gets the thing to work.It sounded pitiful,real tinny,and can you believe it,after listening to the FX-5,he agreed, off the record of course,that mine sounded better.And he preferred my remote.Now I don't expect him to admit an off the record remark,but he said it.

Now having said all this, again,its obvious that the wagons are circled,as usual,I expect you and Dan will hang me in effigy over at Predatormunsters, as you've done many times before.But hey, you know what they say,little minds think alike,and hang out at the munsters.
Oh and Andrew one last thing,remember, I know Dan,you guys need to give him a break,he's not a large guy like you,he's got them little skinny bird legs,yanno,they can only take so much humpin.-Lyle
 
Guys,

This infighting amongst ourselves has got to stop. This I am sure is exactly what disgruntled Dan wants us to do, and we are playing right into his hands.

Now I don't know the exact reasons Dan is disgruntled, and at this point I don't particularly care. But WE need to stick together.

Personal attacks against other hunters, sponsors, and PM members are doing damage to our site and to our sport.

Let's not lower ourselves to that level.
 
wow I dont know about you guys but I couldnt even sort through that although Im quite certain theres a "but dad he" along with some finger pointing in there somewhere. I dont know Dan, Ive seen one of his rifles it looked decent maybe a little overpriced for what was done but all in all looked ok and I dont really want to say this but I know what too look for in a quality custom rifle. Let me be perfectly clear I think hes a horses butt for even posting what he did and not just letting it go. With that being said I dont think hes a PETA supporter just a ticked off scourned man that has a bone to pick just like alot of us here. Maybe just maybe we can all learn to just forgive and forget and find a worthy enemy to expend all this energy on. I do however like how this has turned into Dans WT isnt as good as my FX5 and he knows it.
 
Jim, well said. I like your style and I can see why my dad likes you. It's just to easy for some people to go up against an individual when that individual can not stand up for himself on the forum that he is being bad mouthed on. Just like some people still believing that my dad is pushing for a season on coyotes and talking about him on here when he is not able to defend himself. It's nothing but a one sided argument. But hey that's just my opinion
 
Guys--We've been allowing this thread to stay somewhat loose, given the emotions on both sides of the issue, but I need to ask you to refrain from further personal attacks on each other.

AZ's honesty was called into question and he has now responded to the allegations.

Let's now end that aspect of this discussion.

From our TOS:

4 If you are a member and your conduct here or elsewhere, brings or attempts to bring our reputation, or the reputation of our members into disrepute, we will simply revoke your membership.

You guys can say what you want in here as long as it is civil and adheres to the TOS. Discussing the merits of a particular hunting product is fine, but calling or insinuating that a member here, any member, is untruthful is an attack on his reputation and not something we engage in.

Thanks for your cooperation.

-Matt
 
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