Do coyotes really kill calves? HONESTLY?

C

CaliCoyoteCaller

New member
Ok, I know some of you are already ready to write up a big ol' butt kickin message telling me how stupid I am for even asking this question...blah blah blah....but just hear me out!!!

First, let me say, I know yotes kill calves. Ive been hunting my entire life, nearly 30 years so Im not a newb.....but........

In all my efforts of calling coyotes, Ive talke to A LOT of cattle ranchers about coyotes, and the largest majority say, "Ya know, I really dont have that many problems with coyotes." or they say, "Well, every now and then we may lose 1 but not very often."

So, my thinking is this, do we coyote hunters try to paint a picture that coyotes kill more calves than they actually do cause we just want justification for hunting someones ranch?

Ive seen more problems with sheep ranchers than cattle ranches. Ive seen sheep ranches in NV that had an epidemic of murdering coyotes that were slaughtering lambs left and right so they called my dad to come clean them out. (Hes a trapper and a darn good one...catches HUNDREDS of yotes in a season)

So, before everyone gets mad, I just wanna know, in all your years of hunting these ranches, how much trouble have coyotes really caused the cattle rancher? Just once in a while? All the time? Epidemic?

Tread softly with the comments cause Im on your side here. I know they cause problems. Im just trying to see if everyone elses experiences are like mine when the ranchers say, "We dont really have that many problems."
 
My family has run a cattle operation for over 60 years. My grandfather and Dad will both tell you we've never knowingly lost a calf to a coyote. Consider a 1600 pound momma cow against a 30 pound coyote. Now if the cow died during birth then maybe a coyote would get the calf but we've never lost one that we know of that way. And we've raised a lot of bottle calves. My Mom on the other hand ran some goats for a short time and those pasture maggots will stand and watch a coyote grab them and walk off. Chickens, sheep, and other small animals are easy targets.

Now that being said I hunt coyotes because it's fun and I love the challenge. I also deer hunt and they kill fawns so there's that to consider.
 
I think they are more apt to kill calves on the more remote ranching areas where they may feel less pressure from rural folk. That being said they like most all carnivores are creatures of opportunity. And, for every calf not lost who really knows what went on at night and what stress the animals may have been under which could in turn present itself as an early demise by means other than teeth.
 
Originally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller


So, before everyone gets mad, I just wanna know, in all your years of hunting these ranches, how much trouble have coyotes really caused the cattle rancher? Just once in a while? All the time? Epidemic?




Let me make this easier to understand. It'll save you the time of "thinking" about the "justification" used to hunt predators on livestock operations.

Regardless of whether or not a Coyote, or Coyotes, have drew blood and actually become calf killers in a specified area or certain Ranch, is in a way irrelevant.
Ranching is a lifestyle and a way of life for those of us who raise the food that you eat. By the time you look at the minutes, hours, days, weeks, years, it takes to develop a herd, to protect that herd, invest in that herd for the best genetics, gains, and production value, having ONE loss is too much, especially if we can prevent it. I've seen a Coyote directly responsible for Calves deaths, not because it attacked, but because it was in the calving lot eating afterbirth, the momma Cow smelled it, got up, circled her Calf, and stepped on him. It happens, but it's also preventable with certain methods.

I've got a brother in law who loses at least one every year due to a coyote kill, and have had multiple dealings chasing Coyotes off a newborn, finding its tail chewed off...

In this day and age it is easy to use the word "justify" to make ones work more "credible", but in hunting it shouldn't necessarily be that way. The day that it does become "justifiable" will be the day, that half of those who can't "justify" it, will not be hunting.

There is no Culture, without Agriculture, and that is what we are protecting.
 
We've lost a few to coyotes, but have also had buzzards kill newborn calves. It's not an epidemic but still makes you want to rid them from your farm. Knowing they can harm something that's worth a good chunk of money puts a good size target on their back
 
Originally Posted By: skinneyOriginally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller


So, before everyone gets mad, I just wanna know, in all your years of hunting these ranches, how much trouble have coyotes really caused the cattle rancher? Just once in a while? All the time? Epidemic?




Let me make this easier to understand. It'll save you the time of "thinking" about the "justification" used to hunt predators on livestock operations.

Regardless of whether or not a Coyote, or Coyotes, have drew blood and actually become calf killers in a specified area or certain Ranch, is in a way irrelevant.
Ranching is a lifestyle and a way of life for those of us who raise the food that you eat. By the time you look at the minutes, hours, days, weeks, years, it takes to develop a herd, to protect that herd, invest in that herd for the best genetics, gains, and production value, having ONE loss is too much, especially if we can prevent it. I've seen a Coyote directly responsible for Calves deaths, not because it attacked, but because it was in the calving lot eating afterbirth, the momma Cow smelled it, got up, circled her Calf, and stepped on him. It happens, but it's also preventable with certain methods.

I've got a brother in law who loses at least one every year due to a coyote kill, and have had multiple dealings chasing Coyotes off a newborn, finding its tail chewed off...

In this day and age it is easy to use the word "justify" to make ones work more "credible", but in hunting it shouldn't necessarily be that way. The day that it does become "justifiable" will be the day, that half of those who can't "justify" it, will not be hunting.

There is no Culture, without Agriculture, and that is what we are protecting.


No need to get too huffed about it. I am not trying to justify it in my mind. They only justification I need is ITS A WHOLE LOTTA FUN. Its an added benefit that when we take a yote out, it helps save maybe a fawn, maybe a calf, maybe somebody's domestic pet etc...


I completely understand the reasoning behind it, and didnt really need an explanation. We raised cattle ourself, that, coupled with calling yotes for a long time, I know all about the game and totally understand. I was just curious how many guys actually see problems with coyotes killing cattle. I hunt them because its a passion that wont burn out. Its a lot of fun and makes for great memories and great stories with friends and family. That is all the justification I need.
 
Originally Posted By: skinneyOriginally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller


So, before everyone gets mad, I just wanna know, in all your years of hunting these ranches, how much trouble have coyotes really caused the cattle rancher? Just once in a while? All the time? Epidemic?




Let me make this easier to understand. It'll save you the time of "thinking" about the "justification" used to hunt predators on livestock operations.

Regardless of whether or not a Coyote, or Coyotes, have drew blood and actually become calf killers in a specified area or certain Ranch, is in a way irrelevant.
Ranching is a lifestyle and a way of life for those of us who raise the food that you eat. By the time you look at the minutes, hours, days, weeks, years, it takes to develop a herd, to protect that herd, invest in that herd for the best genetics, gains, and production value, having ONE loss is too much, especially if we can prevent it. I've seen a Coyote directly responsible for Calves deaths, not because it attacked, but because it was in the calving lot eating afterbirth, the momma Cow smelled it, got up, circled her Calf, and stepped on him. It happens, but it's also preventable with certain methods.

I've got a brother in law who loses at least one every year due to a coyote kill, and have had multiple dealings chasing Coyotes off a newborn, finding its tail chewed off...

In this day and age it is easy to use the word "justify" to make ones work more "credible", but in hunting it shouldn't necessarily be that way. The day that it does become "justifiable" will be the day, that half of those who can't "justify" it, will not be hunting.

There is no Culture, without Agriculture, and that is what we are protecting.


I too don't think that Cali was looking for a "justification" type of reason, was just wondering what percentages were.

With that being said Skinney, I think that you hit the nail right on the head, at least in my mind, when you stated all of the money in effort and time to raise such a quality herd and that one loss is one too much. If there were a need or desire for a justification, that statement right there is what impacted me the most and that would be it.
 
Originally Posted By: TheBig1Originally Posted By: skinneyOriginally Posted By: CaliCoyoteCaller


So, before everyone gets mad, I just wanna know, in all your years of hunting these ranches, how much trouble have coyotes really caused the cattle rancher? Just once in a while? All the time? Epidemic?




Let me make this easier to understand. It'll save you the time of "thinking" about the "justification" used to hunt predators on livestock operations.

Regardless of whether or not a Coyote, or Coyotes, have drew blood and actually become calf killers in a specified area or certain Ranch, is in a way irrelevant.
Ranching is a lifestyle and a way of life for those of us who raise the food that you eat. By the time you look at the minutes, hours, days, weeks, years, it takes to develop a herd, to protect that herd, invest in that herd for the best genetics, gains, and production value, having ONE loss is too much, especially if we can prevent it. I've seen a Coyote directly responsible for Calves deaths, not because it attacked, but because it was in the calving lot eating afterbirth, the momma Cow smelled it, got up, circled her Calf, and stepped on him. It happens, but it's also preventable with certain methods.

I've got a brother in law who loses at least one every year due to a coyote kill, and have had multiple dealings chasing Coyotes off a newborn, finding its tail chewed off...

In this day and age it is easy to use the word "justify" to make ones work more "credible", but in hunting it shouldn't necessarily be that way. The day that it does become "justifiable" will be the day, that half of those who can't "justify" it, will not be hunting.

There is no Culture, without Agriculture, and that is what we are protecting.


I too don't think that Cali was looking for a "justification" type of reason, was just wondering what percentages were.

With that being said Skinney, I think that you hit the nail right on the head, at least in my mind, when you stated all of the money in effort and time to raise such a quality herd and that one loss is one too much. If there were a need or desire for a justification, that statement right there is what impacted me the most and that would be it.

Agreed, Agreed, Agreed!!!
 
Another thing that you said Skinney, which also really impacted me, was the story of the heifer circling her calf to protect it and killing the calf by accidentally stepping on it. I'm not a rancher and have no experience, so something like that isn't something that I'd imagine happening.

To be honest with you, from now on when I'm talking with a rancher about gaining permission to predator hunt, it's examples such as that which I will use to try to remind them of the severity of predators and to help me seal the deal.
 
I'll put my 2 cents in... I apologize in advance for any typos as I'm on my phone. My great grandpa was the first to own the family ranch back in the 30's and I have spent 90% of my free time on the place since I could walk. I've hunted coyotes my whole life also. Coyotes are oportunistic creatures and will grab a bite to eat where ever they can. It seems like we lose at least 1 or 2 calves a year to coyotes and sometimes the coyotes will run the cow to death also. When they kill the cow they usually just eat the rear end, split the bag and get the milk and leave the rest to rot and maybe come back for a bite later on. I've noticed when the planes start shot gunning coyotes it makes them even more vicious. I have a theory from a past experience that a lot of times the shotgun will only injure the dog and that makes it take an easy meal, i.e. calves and other livestock. I called in a older dog that had a bad back from being shot from a plane and he killed 2 calves. After I got him squared away we didn't lose any more that year. Mange plays a huge factor also, it makes them crazy and they will do things a normal healthy coyote wouldn't dare. Coyotes will always repopulate areas with low coyote density, so if you get rid of a lot one year, more will be back next year. They always fill the gap. These are my personal opinions derived from spending tons of time trying to keep my cows and calves safe. I try not to over hunt or trap my area because it brings in new, younger more oportunistic coyotes and that means dead calves. I have a pair on the place that has been there for around 4 years now. They won't come to a call and they won't mess with traps or bait piles. They are smart, but they also leave the herd alone so I don't mess with them unless I get a shot at one running through the pasture. Given that calves value from 700-1200$ and a cow is valued at around 1000-1800$ and produce a calf every year for around 12 years, that is a lot of money being destroyed, it's no wonder why we want them removed.
 
A very close friend of mine has run a cow calf operation for 35 years, at caving time he tries to bring them in to a coral just before they drop, near his house. The numbers of calve killed by coyotes is relative low, but he is convinced it would be huge if hey where out in the filed . He has hade coyotes come in to the corral and try, and some times get, a calf as it's coming out. At times with him in the corral. He is in the wolf reintroduction area of MT and now he has wolves to contend with too. They can and will kill the cow and eat the calf out of the womb.
 
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Ive seen it....but in my neck of the woods here in Central Cal, I see the more common scenerio of domestic dogs being dropped off out in the country, and they pack up...then they like to run cattle thru barbed wire fences just for funsies.
Mark
 
Originally Posted By: LONEHOWLIve seen it....but in my neck of the woods here in Central Cal, I see the more common scenerio of domestic dogs being dropped off out in the country, and they pack up...then they like to run cattle thru barbed wire fences just for funsies.
Mark

I dont live too far from you, Mark, and Ive seen that a lot myself..prob seen as much trouble with domestic on the livestock as I have the yotes....there is some good country to call in your neck of the woods too!
 
I think one of the most important points missed by this blanket question is the effect difference by region. Here in the cold snow when they pack up and beat down a path a foot wide to the cattle. The scrawny ones go south in winter where their grasshopper killing relatives thrive.
Once while hunting with a game warden we came upon 11 coyotes taking down a full sized mule deer in 3 ft snow.
Killing coyotes is one factor that a rancher has some control as opposed to the other predators that are protected.
It has enough real impact that the WDFW, USDA, and private contractors make annual or biannual kill flights.
The helicopters have a better kill ratio but cost more.
The bottom line is coyotes are a true cost for growers from start to finish. The loss may be a few pounds to death of stock. The prevention cost range from a bullet to flight time.

I know a farmer that took a long shot and missed. The coyote blasted through the neighbors herd and a cow fell over dead. The neighbor being present accused him of shooting the cow and threatened a bill for it.
Medical examination revealed no bullet holes, so a heart attack in an old cow scared to death by the charging coyote.
Collateral damage causing loss and temporary hard feelings now has turned into humor.
 
Ok maybe they don't kill calves "all the time" and maybe it's only 1 or 2 a year for most people. But everyone here answering to this topic can say that they hunt them also, right? Imagine areas like me for example(Harrison, Arkansas). I know of plenty of calves being killed all the time around here. I was just speaking to a man the other day, he tends a 1,000 acre ranch. They lose more calves than they want to admit too is all he would say. Take into account your region. Lot easier to hunt Yotes where you live OP. In fact, I'm the only person that I personally know who hunts yotes, and I havn't even killed one because of how difficult it is in the east. Now people like GC for example, he doesn't live far from me and he puts down quite a few predators, but I'm sure he has hunted a lot throughout his life. You think they are illusive and cunning? Try hunting them in an area where you rarely get shots over 75 yards. Like I said, I think it's probably a regional thing.
 
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The ranch Im doing coyote control on the last 2 months had a pack of coyotes kill at least 6 calves from what he said. Ive seen the dead eaten ones, but not knowing %100 if they were opportunic kills or purposely killed I will never know. Just going by what the rancher said. They are killing my new born calves is all I need to know. I remove 8 of them in 2 weeks and he has not found a dead one since.
Personally I have never seen a coyote kill a calf/cow, but have shot 100s over dead cows.
Ive watched them in pastures looking for easy eats during calving also.
 
One thing is constant in this part of the world, and that is coyotes showing up when cows are calving. No question they are after the sick and the afterbirth connected to normal calving. They don't all kill calves, but some surely do. We even killed two out of three coyotes that were attacking a cow while she was down trying to have a calf. We have a lot of big coyotes, no question, and they require more food to get by. IMO, once they start killing bigger calves, it is a regular thing they do.
 
Originally Posted By: possumalOne thing is constant in this part of the world, and that is coyotes showing up when cows are calving. No question they are after the sick and the afterbirth connected to normal calving. They don't all kill calves, but some surely do. We even killed two out of three coyotes that were attacking a cow while she was down trying to have a calf. We have a lot of big coyotes, no question, and they require more food to get by. IMO, once they start killing bigger calves, it is a regular thing they do.

Same here. They really like the afterbirth and go for the sick ones. I guess I hear of maybe 5 calves per year or so around locally being lost to coyotes, sometimes more or sometimes less. The number of sightings though during calving is high and all the farmers usually start slinging lead.
 
Kinda seems like everyone failed to mention the method of the coyotes killing anything. See, they don't kill like a cat or bear, they just get the bigger stuff on the ground and start eating from the back while it's laying there balling. They are by no means killers, but what they are is the lowest form of a predator that you can find. Let alone all of the diseases they carry and spread. These things right here are more than enough reason for me to kill every one of those sons a bithces!!!
 
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