Don't like how I hunt, huh?

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Wackmaster ... "1 & 2 are basically the same thing" They are two entirely different issues! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

To say that these small to medium sized operations are the best places for genitic and CWD research is crazy since they lose animals all of the time and the potential to spread problems to the wild populations is greatest with those who lack the necessary financial resources to take appropriate steps when mishaps do occur. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifThey also lack the necessary expertise -- genitic and dease research are very complicated and expensive matters to study (That's why drug companies invest 100's of millions in research) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. It is for this very reason that wildlife agencies spend hunters dollars to correct the problems caused by "Game Farmers". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif



#3 - "is almost a non issue. There are few that hold that much land." Maybe in Colorado that might be true, but it is not elsewhere --- such as Texas, home of the high fenced canned hunt. Incidentily, Texas no longer allows the import of out-of-state wild animals for game farms .... I wonder why?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gifIf high fenced hunting grows in popularity, not only may you find more operations being set-up, but you may also find large private land holdings that were previously open to the public for hunting being fenced and made out of bounds.

IMO the greatest threat to hunting is not the informed hunters, but the unimformed, support everything no matter what bunch. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 


"To say that these small to medium sized operations are the best places for genitic and CWD research is crazy since they lose animals all of the time and the potential to spread problems to the wild populations is greatest with those who lack the necessary financial resources to take appropriate steps when mishaps do occur. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifThey also lack the necessary expertise -- genitic and dease research are very complicated and expensive matters to study (That's why drug companies invest 100's of millions in research) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. It is for this very reason that wildlife agencies spend hunters dollars to correct the problems caused by "Game Farmers". /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif



Can you tell me where you got this information?

#3 - "is almost a non issue. There are few that hold that much land." Maybe in Colorado that might be true, but it is not elsewhere --- such as Texas, home of the high fenced canned hunt. Incidentily, Texas no longer allows the import of out-of-state wild animals for game farms .... I wonder why?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif If high fenced hunting grows in popularity, not only may you find more operations being set-up, but you may also find large private land holdings that were previously open to the public for hunting being fenced and made out of bounds.


So are you saying a person shouldn't be allowed to use his private property for a legal business, and that he has to allow the general public to hunt on his private land?

Do you have a farm?
 
Most all of this seems to hang their hats on CWD as the ultimate evil and the main reason to stop game farms and hight fence hunting. The disease has had more that it's share of press. Those opposed here seem to think CWD is rampant in game breeders and hunting ranches herds....not so . I am a breeder of Whitetail deer. I have to check every last animal that dies in my pens for CWD even though it has never been found in Iowa in the wild or behind a fence . This goes for all other operations in all other states. Wild deer have just as good a chance , if not more, to develop CWD as one behind a fence. The disease came from sheep , their disease is called yonnies ,that was spread to elk and then to deer. If your claims of disease are true , then you should be outlawing the sheep industry in your western state to stop a real chance of an outbreak. Also , while you are at it , elk and deer can get TB . It can be given to cattle but also the cattle can give to the wildlife. You will also have to tell the cattle ranchers in your area to stop raising their animals to protect the elk and deer.
Any time CWD has been found in a captive herd , all animals have been killed and removed and the area has been put under a high alert to keep track of an outbreak. No diseased animals are allowed to live outside of high security Federal research facilities . Your sick animals constantly escaping isn't happening anywhere ,sorry . Also , the disease EHD in the southern US on up towards Ohio and west , is a disease spread by wild deer and kills 70% and more of all wild and captive deer . Way more and more infectious than CWD and not one person crying about the game breeders starting it or spreading it.....sounds like a more devestating and threating problem to me....and the world still worries about CWD. We all have to work through these things work toward solving problems rather than finger pointing. We all need to keep our hats on strait and realize that many reserve hunters are first timers or last timers. People who haven't the time or skills to go out west and climb every mountain ....or after a lifetime of hunting and getting nothing or average animals , just once , wish to have a dream animal in their sights.....I think lots of the first timers are thrilled with their experience and plan out west hunts after getting their feet wet close to home on a reserve. These hunts are gateways to bring in new hunters and as we get more modern, a place for hunters with lesser skills to participate in the age old hunter/gatherer tradition. win win in my book SM
 
I was a little worried that this thread wasn't going anymore... but BEHOLD it's refreshing to see it's still here... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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Next time another hunter talks down on how you hunt, tell that cannibal to read this.


Cannibals and useful idiots

Written by John Wasmuth

The following is real, and it’s here.
Joe Hunter goes to a cocktail party, nothing fancy, just a holiday gathering in Anytown, USA. A conversation begins with Bob Peta, it goes something like this;
“Say Joe, didn’t you go deer hunting this year.”
“Sure did Bob.”
“Man that’s, uh, great, did you get one?”
“Yep, sure did, nice 6 point.”
“Uh, wow, hey that’s great. Say listen Joe, yer a true hunter, a ”Real” hunter are you not?”
“Yes, I sure am.”
“Say, I hear tell of a kinda huntin where people can go and kill animals in fenced in areas. You’ve never done that have you?”
“No, no I haven’t.”
“Well I wouldn’t call that “real” hunting, would you Joe.”
“Well, that’s not the way I hunt.”
“I know Joe, but there are people that hunt in fenced areas, I don’t think that’s “Really” hunting, do you Joe.”
“Well, uh, I guess not.”
“Great, say listen Joe, a bunch of us concerned “Real” hunters are trying to get that done away with, we feel that it is unethical. Will you help us Joe?”
“Well sure, because that’s not the way I hunt, and I am a “Real” hunter.”
“Say thanks Joe; here is what we need you to do. As a “real” hunter, the big boys in senate and congress will listen to you; they know that any “Real” hunter only hunts the way you do, and that’s the only “Real” hunting there is. So what we need you to do is get out there and get petitions signed, people will sign them because you are a “Real” hunter and know that only your way of hunting is the “Real” way.”
So Joe diligently goes after the goal, to ban and outlaw any kind of hunting that Bob suggests is not “Real” hunting. He gathers signatures, petitions courts, makes meetings, he is really cleaning up this “unethical” way of hunting. Hell, he’s got a lot of support. He’s gathering “Real” hunters from all over, and finally, after much hard work, they get a legal way of hunting banned.

“Joe, you did great and we sure appreciate your hard work, but hey, let me tell you what I heard about. There is another kind of hunting “We” think is not right. Do you think you can help us?”
“Well, I guess so Bob, I don’t hunt like that, so it’s not “Real” hunting. How can I help?”
“Well, here is what we need…….,” and it’s the same story. Odd how Bob seems to keep adding onto the list of what “Real” hunting is, but Joe goes at it hard and heavy, and in the end, he gets that type of legal hunting banned. Bob and his “Friends” are happy. Joe’s a “Real” hunter after all, and these other guy’s, well, they are not, because the way they hunt is different from Joe, and Joe does not like that type of hunting, so what’s the harm in getting rid of it? Joe’s a “Real” hunter you know. Not like those other guys. He even goes to Sportsman’s organizations and recruits from within, it’s easy because there are a lot of “Real” hunters there.

Time passes and more and more legal forms of hunting are banned. Bob and his “friends” are happy with Joe. He’s been a big help. After it’s all just about gone, Bob and his “friends” decide that it is time to get Joe’s way of hunting banned, the final chapter.
“Bob, uh, hey buddy, this is Joe. I know I helped you get rid of all those other forms of legal hunting, but now there is a move to get rid of the way I hunt.”
“Well Joe, I know. My “friends” and I are spearheading that.”
“But Bob, I thought you liked the way I hunt, that it was ok for me to do the type of hunting I do.”
“Well Joe, no, any and all types of hunting are bad, the poor defenseless animals never have a chance, and we dislike, actually hate hunters.”
“But I thought the way I hunted was “Real” hunting to you.”
“Hell Joe, it was all “ Real” hunting, but we at PETA and HSUS Hate you, but thanks for all your help, we really appreciate it.”

You see, what Joe became was a “Cannibal”. A “Useful Idiot” to the anti’s and PETA. They don’t give a rat’s backside how you hunt, what you hunt, or when you hunt. They just want all hunting done away with. They use hunters against hunters to gain support for their “Causes”.

If you do not support any and all forms of legal hunting, and decide to pick and chose the ones you like and dislike, and voice any decent about the way someone else legally hunts, you are in fact, a “Cannibal” and a very very “Useful Idiot” for the enemy. There are plants even within the sacred walls of your favorite Sportsman’s organizations. Route them out, expose them, and rid the board of them. Hunting’s future depends upon it.




Unfortunately, it has morphed into the pros and cons of game farms instead of a request that we be united against the ARA.
 
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Unfortunately, it has morphed into the pros and cons of game farms instead of a request that we be united against the ARA.



I began this thread in response to a negative comment made about hunting over a feeder. 4100fps brought up the whole game ranch thing, and has stated that he supports "Politicians, citizen initiatives, anything that does away with the shooting preserve."
The "anything" comment is rather disturbing. Wonder how many PETA-types are going to contact him to call him on it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
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Sooo, what part of what I said do you disagree with: (1) That small and medium sized game farms lack the expertise to carry out research into CWD and genitic research? Soory I don't see many of these outfits run by highly eductaed doctors and scientists, with state of the art labs, and so on and so form. Surely you don't disagree with this? (2)That hunter's dollars are spent to clean up the messes / escapes from these farms? Happens all the time and was detailed by someone else with specific examples in a previous tread.

The part about the implications of the growing popularity of high fence and canned hunting was my original thoughts based on what I have seen and the logically conclusions drawn from that.
 
EastCoastHunter,Health and genetics as they pertain to ranch raised animals causing problems for wild animals is the same. I cant see how you could seperate them.
For monitoring and testing pourposes captive elk and deer are used often including game ranch animals. As Spiderman said records are kept and testing is done on dead animals.
As for the issue of costing the game department money any CWD that shows up in an area the first place they look is at high fence operations in the area. These animals often are not the reason it is there and are usefull in monitoring the endemic.
3- If you want to speak of Texas, tell me what is the natural migration of whitetail deer on the Edwards Platue?
Incedentaly Texas still alows the importation of exotics(game not historicaly found in that are) on some animals there are stricter guidelines to follow.
As for previosly hunting oppertunities on private land, look around it is happening everywhere. I will be the last person to tell a landowner how to use their land to provide income for their family.
 
ECH. I didn't say I disagreed with anything. I simply asked specific questions regarding your sources and your opinion of private property.

If you have no sources for your "facts" or opinion on private property /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif I have no problem with that.
I thought my questions were very straight forward.
 
Redfrog; if you want people to answer YOUR questions why not try answering OTHER PEOPLES questions before you start asking your own. Kinda hypocritical don't Ya think!!?? Maybe it is just easier for you to ignore questions that will hurt your flawed logic on the subject?
 
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To the people who think shooting livestock in a pen is fun why don't you go pay a rancher to shoot a cow........ it is much better eating and you get more meat. I am sure it would be just as much of a 'hunt' and fun as killing any other pen raised animal. Heck they let cows free range in places of Colorado; that would be more of a true hunt than what is in a high fence hunt.

I have had a couple people show me their mounts or pictures and try to pass them off as a 'hunt' they went on. After asking some questions about their hunt I figured out just what they had done. So I asked them if they would be impressed if I showed them a mount of a texas long horn cow. Yep; you guessed it they all asked why would that be impressive it is just some cow/livestock. I said so is your mount/picture!!!!



Sure is funny the pro-fence/livestock killing crowd have not had a rebuttle to this!
 
Pro hunt, That is your statement of oppinion. No rebuttal needed. Your oppinion seems to imply that you think it is just shooting livestock. Have you ever hunted a high fence? If not it is just your oppinion and you are entitlid to it even though you have no facts to back it up.
 
All I can think of after reading allll of this is...STFU!
This poor dead horse has been beat enough.
Everybody can hunt where they can! I said so!
 
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Pro hunt, That is your statement of oppinion. No rebuttal needed. Your oppinion seems to imply that you think it is just shooting livestock. Have you ever hunted a high fence? If not it is just your oppinion and you are entitlid to it even though you have no facts to back it up.



Actually if you would read it I asked "To the people who think shooting livestock in a pen is fun why don't you go pay a rancher to shoot a cow".
Also there has been lots of opinions posted that people feel the need to rebut. There has been no rebuttle to my opinions. It sure seems like it is because there is no good rebuttal for them.
 
It may have something to do with the fact that no one has said it would be fun to shoot livestock in a pen.
 
i love watching those hunting shows on TV. A jeep wagoneer pulls up , and out gets some dude covered from head to toe with orange cammo. He clinbs up 15 or 20 feet into a heated wooden blind and sits for a couple hours , drinking hot chocolate, waiting for it to get light .As it starts to get light he see's a herd of deer feeding on a large pile of apples, about 150 yard shot . He raises his trusty .223 ( which is way underpowered for shooting deer , but a larger caliber hurts his shoulder when he shoots it } now on top of this rifle sits a scope the size of the Hubble telescope. He waits for the buck to get a little closer , because he aint comfortable shooting 150 yards , as the deer nears he twists his bullet drop compensator to 90 yards , and BANG ! The deer instantly bolts away , his left front leg swinging in the air. Everyone in the blind yells : GOOD SHOT" In the meantime the rest of the deer just keep on eating apples , because their used to this , it happens everyday. Now our skilled hunter gets to track his deer , but off camera one of the guides allready killed it for him . At last he gets to pose with his trophy, and when he gets back to the city , he can tell all his friends how he stalked , and had to belly crawl 1/2 a mile to get his shot ,,,HA HA HA ,,Its better then anything they got on the comedy channel, I love it !
 
I would shoot a cow in a second if I had the money to pay for it...LOL. I would also eat it just the same at a wild pig or deer that I shot. I live in Texas and I have only hunted a high game fence once...for exotic rams. I was aprehensive at first, but once I tried to stalk one of these PENNED animals, found out there was not much can to this canned hunt (I went with a bow). Granted I saw more animals, but dosen't mean that they were give-mes. The terrain was very tough...shale rock on the side of very steep hills/mountains. We were doing spot and stalk. I walked away empty handed, but do I look down on these memories, no...becasue I had a good time with friends, and a tough hunt. It would have been easy to shoot one with a gun, but I personally wanted to try with a bow...but I didn't condem anyone who did use a gun....if that how they wanted to do it, thats fine with me...and I will defend that right of theirs. I don't think using a gun qualifies as hunting as much as using a bow... don't think that sitting in a stand with a qualifies as hunting as much as sitting cammoed under a tree or in a field...I don't think that hunting with calls or lures qualifies as hunting as much as spot and stalk. There are a lot of things that I think are right and wrong, but I am not going to tell anyone how they need to hunt. I don't think hunting with dogs or a guide for that matter qualifies as hunting as going out by yourself one one one...but am I going to go out and tell someone that they can't or try and get it banned, hell no...just like I would hope that they would have my back not if but when animal activists will try and ban bow hunting, hunting with calls, over bait, with semi-autos...ect. I am not going to tell someone how they need to do things...and regardless of what you think, you are putting fule on the fire when you slam another hunter for the way they hunt...just look at the commotion that was caused when Jim Zumbo posted his blog about AR's on a HUNTING website. Didn't take long for the antis to get their hands on that, did it?
 
I have some question.

1. Are there any reported cases of cwd in Texas, if not why?
2. Have you hunted with an outfitter\guide?
3. When you go out hunting do you take horse/mules/ATV?
4. Do you eat meat that you have not killed?
5. Do you park your truck at the gate and walk in to hunt eventhough there are 6 more fences and 6 miles of road?
6. Once you kill your coyote, PD, coon, ETC. do you eat it?
7. Do you hunt in competitions?
8. Do you hunt with a gps, radio, range finder, wind meter?
9. We a sportsmen/hunters have already lost so much that our Great grand fathers, grand fathers and Fathers had do you really what to loose more by not supporting each other?
10. Do you get my point?

We do not have to agree with each other and our metheds but we need to stick together. If game farms are the cause of so many things regulate them do not do away with them.
 
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