God or Evolution

K

kirby

New member
I don't believe in Evolution, one bit.

As for all the creatures, that inhabit this planet. I find it, interesting how "scientists" have it [ALL] pretty much figured out. Well this creature, has "evolved" into this creature. I find that very amusing.

Many scientists, believe in only what is physical/tangible[show me] /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. But then again, out of "convenence" they have their "theories/beliefs" as well. For those so called, Gray areas.

WHAT! no tangible proof /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.
 
I have no problem with the theory of evolution as it applies to the survival of the fittest. All you have to do is consider why an alligator's nostrils point up and ours point down.

However, the basic events that lead to the formation of the universe and it's contents had to be the disign of a Supreme Being, by whatever name.. Just hold a newborn grandchild and argue the point. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Right on Kirby /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif. Evolution has to exist in the minds of some so they have an excuse to deny the existence of the true living God of all creation. Because, if they acknowledge He exists, then they are accountable to His standards of conduct. Can't have that in a "do your own thing" society /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif.
 
Why cannot both be true? As Christians we believe God created all creatures. As scientists we believe these creatures evolved and developed over millions of years. The only conflict I see is the stubbornness that believes God created all creatures at the same time. God always was and always will be, right? Then in that context, how long is 50 million years in the eyes of God? A snap of His fingers? Probably even less than that.

Who but God would have the knowledge to know what creatures were appropriate to populate the planet at any point in time? Dinosaurs and homo sapiens did not exist at the same time for a reason. And who is in charge of making a decision like that? God didn't want his fragile man to be finger food for a Tyrannosaurus Rex. "He" knows how long (and when) all this will end. It will last only as long as "He" wants it to. We were created for His pleasure, and when He is no longer pleased, "Watch Out!!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Evolution all the way. It is proven, I can see it, feel it and observe it. Religon/god in many cases is just a way for others to determine how you should live your life. Fear of god is ridiculous, fear of hell a joke. In the world there has always been and always will be good and evil. Why must people put all there faith in some being or what ever it is that they say made and ultimately controls the universe? Sure in science there are grey areas, but religons/god has way more.
 
Well, the way, I view it. Is God, does not make mistakes. Thus, why I also don't believe in "creature's" evolving.

Note; Why would God, not of made them "right" the 1st time around /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I'm not talking of [sub-species], as this is known to occur.

The other part[there are many /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif]. Is a spiritual intervention. It can not be denied, as thousands have witnessed personal events /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif.
 
There is as much emperical scientific evidence for a Creator as there is for any other theory. Evolution is everywhere. But trans-speciation is scientifically impossible. (Which is what we're talking about.) Species change within themselves all the time, that's observable. That is survival of the fittest, and it happens all around us. But one species can't change to another species, I don't care how many million years you give it. There would be MILLIONS of transitional mutations in the fossil record. Think of how many failed mutations there would have to be over millions of years to have ONE transtion between species. There's not ONE SINGLE fossil record of a transitional species. Punctuated equilibrium is a mad grab in the dark by proponents of a failed religion. (Darwinism.)

BTW, Dinosaurs and Man did exist at the same time. There's fossilized footprints in a riverbed in Texas, Man's and Dino's in the same petrified mud. There's thousands of incidents like this, but the humanist scientific community sweeps them under the rug.
 
Proof of evolution? Excuse me, where? Millions of years? Where's the proof? Carbon 14 dating method? Proven to be totally inaccurate. Ah, you might say look at the Grand Canyon. OK, the Kaibab Plateau is a mile higher than the valley floor. In order for the river to make that canyon over "millions" of years the water would have had to flow uphill /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif. Check it out. But, if you look at it from a Biblical flood view, you can see how it was formed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif. Do a time line of all generations of man back (I have) and you will come the the correct conclusion that this earth is about 6,000 years old. Now that statement ought to get some stirred up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. Dinosaurs? They were here and so was man at the same time, read the book of Job. Some of the dinosuars, I believe, all still here. Go to your local pet shop that has unusual reptiles. Remember now, reptiles never stop growing. It is radiation from the sun that kills them. Pre-flood the earth was covered with a layer of clouds (Genesis) that prevented the radiation from getting here. Reptiles continued to grow. Take the American Alligator, if it would live for 2,000 years it would grow to near 300 ft long. Figure it out. From Creation to Flood was about 2,500 years. Reptiles could get terribly large in that amount of time. My wife and I have studied this subject for years. She has a Degree in Science and in college she set out to prove that evolution was correct and (long story short) she discovered it is all a giant lie. That lie comes right from the pit of Hell. Do a serious search on BOTH sides of this issue and draw your own conclusions. But, be careful, because your decision may affect where you will spend eternity. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
Oh no, here we go again. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I guarantee that a non-religious person (like me or elks) will never convice a religious person (Greg) to change his/her mind, and vice-versa. We're all just too polarized on the issue. We went 'round and 'round about this about a month ago. Six or seven pages later and we all still thought what we thought when it started.

Despite my semi-religious upbringing (parents believe in and taught me of a God, though didn't attend church), I choose not to believe in religion because I believe it was created (and continues to be created) BY man FOR man. Say what you will about the "Word of God," but I believe that a man (or men) wrote the Bible, the Koran, the Book of Mormon, whatever. They're all man made for the intent purpose of controlling the lives of other men. I don't buy that. I don't need someone telling me how to live my life. I know the difference between right and wrong, and I'll live my life according to my own convictions, not someone else's. I concur that many teachings of the Bible are sound, but I don't need a God to tell me that. I need only logic, my conscience, and a dose of compassion for other creatures to come to the same conclusions espoused in a variety of religious texts.

Parting questions: 1)If a just, fair God exists, why do tiny children die of wicked diseases? 2)If God has been here all along, why were and are millions of people around this world ignorant of his existence and your "one true path?" 3)How do you explain Neanderthals? 4)Are there Christian symbols in cave drawings? 5)Why did your wonderful God allow the Crusades? I could go on and on, but you get my point. There is supporting "evidence" for every set of beliefs if you only look hard enough - consider Scientology...
 
The oldest human skeleton ever found was dug out of a hillside in Ethiopia. It is dated to be between 3 and 3.5 million years old. The newest dinosaur remains are dated at 65 million years. That means that, based strictly on forensic evidence and not faith, the first (known) humans did not appear on this planet until 60 million years after the last (known) dinosaur became extinct.

But that is years in human terms. God does not have to limit His perception of time to human, earthbound, terms. Remember a "day" on earth is 24 hours as determined by a single axial rotation. That means the length of a day is determined by the planet you happen to be on at that moment. For example: A day on Jupiter is only 9.8 "earth" hours. A day on Venus is 5,832 "earth" hours long! How long is a "day" in Heaven? Is there even such a thing? Since Heaven is outside our concept of everything physical known to man, is it even necessary for "time" to exist in Heaven? Is Heaven not an entropy of our concept of time?

Einstein tried to explain this with his theory of relativity. Time is only relevant to where you are in the universe at the moment you attempt to measure it. If you exist outside of the universe, like God does, then there is no concept of time. Or, a need for it.
 
Hmmmm, I'm not the best person to discuss the finer points, but here go's, LOL!.

BTW, I'm not "attempting to "convert" anyone. Just wanting a good discussion, with differing points of view.

If "Everything", I mean everything. Were "Black & White" then it would be so cut & dry & of course "easy". Now wouldn't it.

Next time your out in the field. Pick up a blade of grass, or a flower, leaf or twig. Look at it closely. There you will see "infinate order". Without order, there would be nothing. Take anything in life. You will see order. You may not recognize it, but it's there.

Where did "order" come from?...Randomness? The "Big Bang Theory"? When was the 1st time or any time, for that matter. Anyone has ever known of "life" to form, from an explosion from matter? How come apes, are still apes?

If badness/pain/sorrow, ect...ect, only fell upon the evil. Then that would make it to easy to accept. Thus...believe, eh. But it doesn't, it falls upon everyone at some point in life.

Take the 4-seasons for example. Do those just happen randomly, year after year? No, it's order.

Cave-man, Cromagna-man, ect, ect. Have nothing to do, with man. As they are not man. Odd how there are none left now....But man. How did man, survive but not them. What are the odds?
 
Yeah, this is another conversation that is impossible to bring to a logical end. True Science can't speak on the past because the past isn't observable, and observation is a requirement of true science. (Didn't hear that when you did the origins segment of your Biology class in College, did you?!?!)

However here are some thoughts...

"1)If a just, fair God exists, why do tiny children die of wicked diseases?"

We live in a fallen/corrupt world and are born into sin physically and spiritually. In the very same context, is physical death, then, necessarily the ultimate evil, or is it just a transition?

"2)If God has been here all along, why were and are millions of people around this world ignorant of his existence and your "one true path?" "

As to the existance of God, they're not. Natural revelation, as kirby described in "infinate order" points man to God. Man's need for God and spiritual hunger for Him leads to the rest.

"3)How do you explain Neanderthals?"

Neanderthal has been proven to be a skeleton of Modern Man suffering from Ostio-Arthritis. Another point where Darwinists conceal further discovery. Neanderthal and several others in that line of images from ape to man have been thouroughly debunked and should be eliminated, but of course they're not. That would upset a world view.

Did you know that when "Lucy" (australopithicus) was discovered, just prior to that, the "scientist" who found the bones was flying over the landscape and was quoted as saying, "...anything we find down there is going to be at least 200 million years old!" Very scientific!

Speaking of that, same kind of misinformation, or concealed discovery, with Carbon 14 dating. It's regularly touted as "accurate" and "scientific" but did you know that to test with the carbon 14 method, you have to enter an estimated age into the computer? They tested a LIVE clam (3-7 year life cycle) and it turned out to be over 200,000 years old according to carbon 14.

"4)Are there Christian symbols in cave drawings?"

There are Biblical symbols, the worldwide flood, Deity, et.al. Cavedwellers lived about the time of the great hunter Nimrod, and the Tower of Babel, that was before Christ. "...Faith accounted to him as Righteousness..." the era of God's Grace based on Faith, just like AD, but now we have more of the picture, and more assurance of eternity with God.

"5)Why did your wonderful God allow the Crusades?"

Why does he allow people to slander Him? To publicly declare His nonexistance? Same answer: He gave us a free will, and won't step in and force any human to do or not do anything. Misguided or otherwise.
 
Survival of the fittest. The ones that learn, adapt and improve..... survive. These are the ones that earn the priviledge to move up a notch on the food chain. There are many different members of the primate family. Some were quite content to just eat, crap, and breed. Millions of years later, they haven't changed. One member, Hominoidea, on the other hand wasn't so content. He discovered the advantages of premeditation. Over the eons this developed into thinking. The thinking hominids thrived and multiplied. They passed this trait onto subsequent generations. The characteristic of intelligence was now hereditary. The more intelligent they became, the more successful at survival they became. They moved to the top of the food chain. Their ancient ancestors in the trees, remained there.

Work on mapping the entire genome of the common chimpanzee was completed in 2005. A comparison between this and the human genome (completed in 2001) shows that approximately 98.5% of DNA base pairs of humans and chimpanzees are identical. You may not be a monkeys uncle, but genetically, you're his cousin. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I think DesertRam is right, but only in that we are not likely to change each others mind. At least not in this format.

NASA and Elks, I would have to respectfully disagree with both of you for different reasons.

I think there is a lot of truth in what Gregg said.

I don't believe any new species exist except what God created. The Theory of evolution assumes the "old earth" and Creation holds to a "young earth"

The flood (which I believe in) was a critical turning point. Prior to the flood, different atmosphere, different animals, different world.

Post flood, different atmosphere, only the animal species saved on the ark or those that could swim for 40 days (mainly fish).

The odds of it happening as evolutionist say is a mathmatical impossibility.

Science and Archeology are prooving the Bible right more and more every day.

But, like I said, none of that is likely to change anyones mind.
 
I watch any show, I can on "Near Death Experiences". Never fails, there is always atleast one-debunker[Athiest-scientist]. That "theorizes" this is merely the human body's reaction to pain/dying process. Thus releasing, Endorphins[sp?] into the blood stream. An answer for everything, LOL!

Did a code[CPR] on an elderly man, many moons ago[I've done a boatload]. Spoke with his daughter a couple yrs later. She told me, "Her Dad said, "He went through a dark tunnel & went to "Heaven". Was told, "it wasn't his time yet", & sent back. He regained a pulse on-scene /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif.

One of my sister's had one, as well.

Both of these people were changed for life.
 
I'm with Ram on this one. I find it interesting that the people that have similar views (as Rams) never try to convince anyone else that they have "found" the right way.
I don't have a problem with God, but his cheering section can sure rub a guy raw in a hurry. Take care, Noel
 
Good point!And there is a parallel. Did a great flood kill the dinosaurs, or was it the great ice age? When the meteor smashed into the planet there was for sure a great flood. Followed by an atmosphere choked with smoke, ash, and debris. This blocked out the sun, which dropped the temperature, which froze the flooded land. 70% of all terrestrial life perished. Evolution and creationism may not be on the same path, but they are going the same direction. I'm no atheist, but I am a scientist. I'm trained to look at things objectively. Facts and data matter. The one who yells the loudest, doesn't.
 
In song dog buster,

Both...Closing in on 25yrs. But hey! who's counting /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif. 3.5yrs, until retirement /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif. Unless of course, I catch a stray rd, in the meanwhile /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif LOL!


gimpy old, almost retired-dogs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I'm not a scientist but I always thought for something to be scientificaly proven it had to be duplicated in a lab and have the same results each time. If it got the same results 999 time out of 1000 it was a scientific probability. That would, I believe make both creation and evolution religions, since we can't duplicate either one.
I have a few problems with evolution, Within the last few decades virtuly every "missing link" human has been found to be manufactured evidence by "scientist" who wanted evolution to be true.
Even the most athiestic evolutionist say that evolution would require millions, billions or even trillions of years.
The bible says the earth is approximately 6000 years old.
Consider this, I was taught that our sun is burning up at such a rate that it is becomeing 5' smaller in diameter each year, as the sun grows smaller its gravitational pull is deminished and the earth is moving away from the sun at the rate of 6" per decade. For 6000 years that is not a problem, but even a few million years ago the sun would have been so much larger and the earth so much closer the earth would have been drawn in and burnt up.
The evolutionary big bang idea says that all matter was compressed into a tiny period sized spec (I have problem with that) and this spec was spining and exploded into our universe(I have a problem with that too) Science tells us that if this were so, all of our planets would be spinning the same direction, but they're not.
Darwin refered to the "simple cell". In Darwins time science didn't have a clue how incredably complex even the simplest cell is. It is statisticaly impossible for anything that complex to occur by chance mixing of chemical elements.
No, I don't expect to change anybodys mind, but these are some of the reasons I don't have enough faith to believe in evolution.
 
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