Hey Byron, what eastern states did you hunt in "Calling in the East"?

Byron, I respect your efforts on making a video. I have a good idea on what it takes.
I just wanted to make a point. And that's why a 60 minute/90 minute VIDEO has NOT been shot in the east!
Way too costly. You would go broke for sure.
So pack up and do the eastern calling video in Texas...what a joke...LOL. I am sure East Texas has a higher density Coyote population than many parts of the east coast. Move west several hours and better yet!

I just have a problem with the title. $$ I don't agree with it one bit. It seems to be aimed at $$$the big east coast dollars and you amitted that$$$.
I understand calling methods can be applid to many parts of the USA and viewers must saperate the wheat from the chaff.


So you only hunted Pa. 1 time and was washed out?
I would also like the names of the Coyote kill'n guys from Pa., email me a rlblett@ptd.net. Thanks.

Once again, no disrepect. No problems on your efforts, expericne or abilities. I understand you are a hard worker and that's what it takes to kill Coyote on a regular basis. Dog'n the Dogs...gotta be crazy.
Hern
 
jim ky

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
George
 
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I probably should keep my mouth shut and stay out of this. But I won't, and for one reason.

Quote:
just have a problem with the title. $$ I don't agree with it one bit. It seems to be aimed at $$$the big east coast dollars and you amitted that$$$.



Hern,
You say you want to be respectful, then mire your post with the "$$$$$$" thing. I think everyone gets the point you're trying to make without the added stab of $dollar&signs$ splashed liberally throughout the post. That's over the top and IMHO, plain rude. Now that I've kicked your dog and [beeep] in your Wheaties, I'll exit stage right for more popcorn... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
Kirby, sorry we missed answering your question on numbers.I got a one track mind sometimes.

I'm noticing some diferences in habit where coyote's live among humans and where the have miles of uninhabited ground.In the miles of public ground here the whole group of animals may bed within a few hundred yards of each other. Why this is I am not sure.Here I am as apt to call in a group of five as I am a single.I'm also thinking the coyote population in this area may have something to do with this bedding habit. It's about one coyote for every half mile.

Out in the farm land bedded animals from a group may be scattered over two square miles.In this habitat here , that's a lot of thickets to cover on foot in an afternoon or morning hunt.In all the years I've been hunting I can count on my fingers the number of doubles I've called in .In this area I am reduced to foot travel making it unlikely that I will come in contact with more than one of a group during the time I have afield. Groups have a territory of 18 to 20 square miles.

In the farm lands we are reduced in our ways of travel and access. On public ground and large ranches out in the west they are not limited by means of travel or access.This allows them to drive an area and pick out the likely calling spots quickly. They can then form a plan that gets them the most oportunity in teh time they have.Where populations are high it's simply a matter of driving over the hill and set up again on a diferent group of animals.

This can be done in the east but it takes years to collect enough honey holes along a route of easy access. Getting permission form as many a twenty or more landowners along a route.It takes time to weed out the good spots from the bad when there are several places in a groups territory they use to bed.

Theoretically it could be done in the LBL as well. Here the groups are so thick they each control a drianage much like they do in the west. But human travel and hunting pressure of all types keeps them moving and changing all the time not to mention as spooky as critters come.Terrain limits access. If the horse back hunters stayed out it would be a totally diferent ballgame. Animals would then bed in the upper reaches of the drainages where they prefer, making the walk in a half mile or so in this rugged terrain.I could be calling to a diferent group every hour.

It all comes down to how many animals we can access in a given day.Jimmie
 
Greenside,

I have some picts and film of PA called coyotes if ya want to see them. Big Boys too, not those little sand puppies from out west. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Jimmie,

Analyzing all the varibles that come to my mind, in callin coyotes. I'm talking about callers who produce high counts called-in. In a certain area.

Has me thinking, a few of many factors perhaps are mostly at play here. They would be...

1.To many coyotes competing in a given area, for a limited food source.

2. Many of these same coyotes, have not been called yet.

3. Overlapper's or tresspasser' who are looking for a quick/easy meal. [Dropping their usual cautious-guard in the process.]

In Iowa, there are all kinds of hunters. Many will kill a coyote if they happen across one. Then there are the Houndsman, callers, trappers & coyote hunters that put even more pressure on them in fall/winter & spring.

My ratio of hours put in callin per/coyotes produced[seen]. Is rather discouraging to say the least. If I didn't have such a passion for gettin after them. I'd quit callin, after the first 35x of seeing nothing.

There are good populations in both the counties, I hunt & call-in. But they are not the least receptive to calls, IMO.
I wonder now, about the ones, I did call in. I should've seen more.
 
Kirby, by learning what I'm looking for in habitat, I have cut down a lot of dead ground in farm country.This is done before I ever hit the woods in a lot of cases. This is how I can keep the setups per kill ratio so low. It's become such a habit that I do it traveling all over the country. Learning to scout particularly for coyotes takes a diferent mindset than scouting for deer.

I also looked at a lot of maps after the fact. I took a dog and looked for connecting factors that put that animal in that place at the time.I looked at the ground and along it's back trail at the time I took it. I still do this to this day whether I say anything to the partner I'm hunting with or not. Most of the time the partner is a newbie that is asking me why this or that happened.

I met a young man at the hunt last winter and took him on a quicky lesson tour. He was amazed at what I was seeing and showing him traveling a highway.I would stop the truck on sign and point it out and show him where they went and came from.All this sign is there for one to see when they learn to look for it.

Now I am trying to do this in big timber on public ground. It's not been easy to put all the pieces of the puzzle together but they are coming together.Travel lanes are plain as the nose on my face. It's the bedding areas that are not when it is all the same type of cover. I know they are using the terrain to dictate where they bed, I just need to figure out just what exact terrain feature it is. Once I do then I can spot it on a map and cause them some real problems /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Jimmie
 
Kirby,
If you haven't done so a careful read of the big thread in the Eastern Calling section titled, "Calling Tactics and Sounds..." can be helpful. It's posted as a sticky at the top of the page.

One thing to keep in mind is that nothing is exact in coyote hunting. It's supposed to be hard, that's why it's coyote hunting and why we keep coming back.
 
not that it matters Greenside... but I believe George already has my book with pictures in it. I will check my puter when I get home to see if I still have pics on there after the crash. I have nothing on this new puter to post.
 
Hern,

You sure told me didn't you. I guess you figured me out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif I guess I should be just giving these DVD's away. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Do me, and you both, a favor and don't buy my video. It's evident that you wouldn't learn anything from it anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

I know Crow Women and actually hunted with her one afternoon while in PA. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Hi!Sherri.

What is very evident to me at this point is that my critics have never even seen this video (because its not out yet) or hunted where this video was film but are quick to assume it is like hunting West Texas. Well it's not. Also most of these critics have never hunted out of there own regions and are going on the assumtion that coyotes are push overs here in East Texas, and are MUCH different than theirs. After all, it can't be their fault that they don't call many coyotes. Got to be the coyotes. Right? Look at the membership here on PM, How many do you see posting pictures from east Texas. Practically none. Why, because it is tough here. As I have said before and will say again. I saw a need in the marketplace that needed filling. I felt I could help fill that need and did my best effort. If it was not good enough and is rejected I failed. On the other hand if it is accepted I just might make a dollor or two. What my effort simply boils down to is a guy just like you trying to make a living doing waht he loves. If I were trying to get rich I certainly wouldn't be after the coyote hunters money. Coyote hunting seems to draw the whinningest, complainingest, cheapest lot of the bunch, but I love it so. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kirby,

Most peoples stand/kill ratio here is so poor they don't even bother. Some like me and you get frustrated and figure out what it takes to get that ratio closer to our favor.

Byron /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
How about "Calling the Eastern Coyote Western Style"?

I wonder if Eastern Labradors Retreivers are really that much different than the stupid Western ones.

I also wonder if PA Trappers have a harder time trapping coyotes and have to resort to different lures than they use in Western states.

Something else that I wonder is that by using the Eastern rationale, would it be safe to assume that since there are waaay more deer taken in eastern states than in, lets say, Arizona, that Eastern deer are just plain dumber, stupid and uneducated?

Some of you PA boys may be a little angry by now thinking I am making light of your situation. Take a deep breath and step away from the keyboard and think for a moment. What is the one thing that Eastern Coyotes have that Western coyotes do not?

In order to help, you can look at an actual picture of the Eastern Coyote below.

EastenCoyote.jpg



I read some statistics that PA had 36,000 hunters chasing after 12,300 coyotes back in 2002. In AZ it was estimated that in 2002 there were 50,000 breeding pairs of coyotes. Don't know what relationship there is between the two, but I'm sure someone might see something between the lines.
 
Byron stated-
You sure told me didn't you. I guess you figured me out.
You said that, I didn't.

He also says-
Do me a favor and don't buy my video.
Now you want a favor...OK...but maybe George will lend me his copy.

Byron goes on-
you wouldn't learn anything from it anyway.
You said that, I didn't.
Man who knows everything, has a lot to learn.
I am a stupid, eastern dog caller from Pennsyltucky, call'n themthere stupid eastern Coyote. I need all the help I can get.

IhuntedPa.Byron states-
I know Crow Women and actually hunted with her one afternoon while in PA.
Good for you. Never met her.
I purchased her Coyote book.
Did you hunt her style?
Sit in a heated tree house and watch the back forty? Wait & wait for 'em to show?
You shouldn't have been washed out with a roof over your head. That's kill'n Coyote Farmland Style.
Hern
 
And what doesn't show in Jay's picture is a few decades of living and breeding right in the backyards of humans. They aren't stupid! They learn from mistakes. They may not remember everything for long periods but they learn enough to survive a season and breed again in an environment where they are hounded 24 a day and 7 a week.

If the population is still that low then you are talking about teritories of 30 square miles or more like they were when I started here in Ky. It took me years to figure that out and how that territory worked. Groups I hunted back then took two weeks to cover that ground in the circuit they traveled.They used at least three seperate bedding areas that I learned about by listening to them and walking and driving the country side. One bedding area in particular was spread over two miles in a series of thickets on several farms.When I put it together I took six animals from that group during Christmas shutdown of the plant.

Calling them is hte easy part. You have to get out and do the other work. Jimmie
 
I think there are plenty of coyotes in PA. At least were I hunt. The 3 I called in this year(I only hunted two days) came in pretty quick. 3 coyotes in 12 set ups isn't too bad. I saw more yote and bobcat tracks than deer tracks. My shooting wasn't too good though or I'd have a pic.

The coyotes I've called in in Ohio all came in quick also. On average, I figure I see a yote(s) every 6-7 set ups.

The eastern vs western coyote dispute is getting old. I think seeing them coming in is easier out west, and thats about it.

I'm interested in tactics I could use in thicker cover, therefore Byron's video may do me some good.
To me a western yote in thick cover is the same as a eastern yote in thick cover.

My 2 cents
 
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