Interesting Bullet Results...Share Your Experience

rockinbbar

rockinbbar

New member
An interesting discussion came up in another thread about bullet design & performance. I thought it would be interesting to see what your knowledge & experience leads to here....

To start from the start...

I've always used regular PSP bullets out of my .223's....With variable results.

Had more runners & spinners than I would like. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

4-5 years ago I switched to 55 grain Ballistic Tip bullets....It seemed that my trouble was over. I experienced excellent killing power with the ballistic tip ammo out of my .223 past 300 yards, in fact. I don't think I had a runner or spinner.....UNTIL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif late season this year. I probably had 7-10 that were spinners & runners.

Some of these coyotes were brought down with additional shots, some traveled a ways until piling up....still some were seen going into brush at a dead run at 1/2 mile, never to be seen again.

I HATE this! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry-smiley-055.gif I like to make quick, clean kills on EVERYTHING I shoot. I mean a Bang-Flop is what I strive for...

Of the coyotes recovered after spinning or running, they were found to have been shot in a very fatal area, but were able to run anyway.

A couple of cases, I knew I hit the coyote SOLID, & actually found blood, tissue & lung on the ground, or in bushes...The coyote was never recovered in some cases where terminal evidence was found. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

I exclusively use Ultramax 55 gr Ballistic Tip ammo at 3000 FPS in my .223's.

I have heard that Black Hills makes 60 gr V-Max bullets for .223's & I have heard they don't exit a coyote in most cases...

With the Ballistic Tips, I have an exit in nearly ALL coyotes. Even in long-range shots....(over 300 yards) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif

Why would that be?

I know that Nosler constructs the Ballistic Tip to be more of a penetrating bullet as the caliber goes up....Say from .243 to .338 calibers. BUT, why would I get blow-throughs in a 55 gr .223 bullet?

Are the V-Max bullets constructed with a thinner jacket?

At first, I thought that there was very MINIMAL differences in a 55 gr Ballistic Tip & a 60 gr V-Max....Now, I'm not too sure....

Please share your experience in what I have noted here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

The way I see it, a .223 is plenty for coyotes. I know they are TOUGH & the .223 needs to go through the boiler-room of a coyote to put them down, but I have never experienced bullet failure from a supposedly "premium bullet" as many times as I have in the past year. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif

All input is appreciated!!

Thanks,

Barry
 
The noslers tend to hold together a little better than the v-maxs. If you do a little searching you'll find that the 60 grain v-max in .223s is the cat's pajamas when it comes to shooting coyotes. I think your problem is that the BT's aren't going fast enough to expand and just passing through with minimal damage.
 
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If you do a little searching you'll find that the 60 grain v-max in .223s is the cat's pajamas when it comes to shooting coyotes.



How much better is the 60gr V-Max than the 55gr on coyotes? I tried the 55's and had horrible results, mostly splashes and to the point I won't try any more.

To the point of the thread though I have not used bt's for hunting. Personally I have had my best results with a Sierra Gameking # 1365 55gr. With all the variables that come into play I just like to use what is going to provide the most consistant hits.
 
I don't quite know what to tell you. I've had spins and nippers with the 22-250 and 55 grain bullets of several different makes. This doesn't happen near as much with the 243 I've been shooting over the last five years. I used to use 85 grainers in it, but went to the Nosler 55 grain ballistic tip a couple of years ago and this bullet driven at over 3900 fps seems to kill coyotes better than about anything I've shot.

Like cig-beef said you may have to try several different bullets to find what works best.
 
Bullets or the target? I hunt and trap with a partner in NM that sells the skins. When I'm there I always use a 17 caliber rifle, be it a M4 or a 17 Rem. The kill ratio there runs close to 100% using a 25 grain Berger bullet. I'm the shooter there and my partner runs the calling part. I don't shoot until I have the shot I want, allowing me to make the best shot possible, no worry about him shooting and causing me to get a little quicker on the trigger.

I was in southern AZ last year at a little get together and was shooting a M4, I never cleanly killed a coyote all week, shot at least 10 that ran at least 100 yards or more. Why? I was just too fast on the trigger, because I had a partner that was also fast on the trigger.

I've seen better results in a 223 with 40 to 50 grain bullets on coyotes than I've ever seen with 60 plus grain bullets. One might remember, that the bullet manufacturers are making these bullets to be used in all 22 caliber rifles be it a 222 Rem or a 220 Swift, so the jacket has to be able to withstand the velocity of a Swift and still work at the velocity of a 222 or 223. However, they work a lot better at Swift velocities to be sure.
 
Okay i have a question to add if 60 gr vmax seems perfect for the 223 speed but BTs are may not open would a 55 gr BT be a good choice for 22-250. Or is it still better for a vmax to not exit, but would you have to worry about splashes if you dont go to BT?
 
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I have heard that Black Hills makes 60 gr V-Max bullets for .223's & I have heard they don't exit a coyote in most cases...



I just recently started using the black hills 60 v-max. The coyotes I have shot went straight down, were broadside shots and did exit. The coyotes never left their tracks.

I also have shot one bobcat since going to the 60s. It also was broad side and exited. It ran about 30 yards minus some lung.

Prior to shooting the 60s, I was shooting 55 grain Sierra Game Kings (Federal Vital Shoks), and they killed just as good.
 
Quote:

How much better is the 60gr V-Max than the 55gr on coyotes? I tried the 55's and had horrible results, mostly splashes and to the point I won't try any more.

To the point of the thread though I have not used bt's for hunting. Personally I have had my best results with a Sierra Gameking # 1365 55gr. With all the variables that come into play I just like to use what is going to provide the most consistant hits.



Same results here.
 
At 3000fps with a 55 grn b-tip that isn't enough to get the bullet to open up and it acts more like a fmj. A buddy of mine gets pass thrus useing 50grn vmax's at 3200fps in his .223. I'm useing the same 50 grn vmax's at 3450fps and get splashes or destroy anything I hit. My $.02
 
I think this "no pass through" and "Bang-Flop" mentality has many of us asking for the impossible. I shoot a 22-250 for coyotes and have for a number of years. I reload for it usually with 50 or 55gr Ballistic Tips going a moderate 3400fps. One day one of my friends picked up one of those spinning steel targets and we set it out in the field at around 80yds to do some shooting. My first shot I thought I missed...with closer examination we found that the bullet punched a hole straight through the 5/16" steel. Now think about this for a second. If 5/16" steel won't stop this bullet how do we expect fur, soft tissue (like lung tissue) and maybe a rib or two to stop it?

Some bullets have a better CHANCE of not passing through and giving you the DRT we all love seeing, but realistically it's not going to happen every time. If there were a bullet that COULD or WOULD do this every time it would be so unstable that a blade of grass or increase in velocity would have it blowing up before it reaches the target. Remember the jacket on a bullet has to hold it together as centrifugal forces try to tear it apart. This "magic" bullet would HAVE to be caliber, twist rate, and velocity specific and any deviation from the intended variable would again have the bullet tearing itself apart before it reached the target.

I stopped trying to find a bullet that would never pass through and started using the Ballistic Tips because they pass through LESS often than others I have tried.

ETA: If it's DRT you are looking for...shoot a larger caliber, or wait for a straight on body length shot.

If it's fur you want, keep shooting the .223, give them the terminal double lung shot, and get some invaluable tracking practice /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

 
I have used the Winchester Supreme 40 gr ballistic tips in my 223 for years.. Never had a runner yet.. However Winchester no longer produces the 40 gr ballistic's. I will use Hornaday 40 grainers as they shoot good tight groups out of my gun also. I will try the 50 grain Winchester Supremes this spring to see how they group.
I wish Winchester wouldnt have stopped making the 40 grainers they were DRT on coyotes for me.
 
I forgot twist rates make a difference, anyone have good combos in 22-250 with 1in14 twists.

Sorry i keep asking questions on his post, so il share one expierence i had last year.

I shot a coyote with Black Hills 50 gr vmax i believe they shoout about 3200 3300 rated. The coyote was broadside at 180 yards shot and hot the dirt i started gathering my things looked up and he was running i shot again and he dropped looked like a shot far back his back leg was broke.
I shot him one more time as he tried to crawl. Upon inspection i could find an exit i think from the lat shot byu his back hip he had a little mange so i didnt dig with my hands to find the other 2 shots but i didnt find any more exits or entrances. This was with a 1in12 twists.
 
Well things seem to be all over the board here so I'll add to the confusion. I shoot 55gr V-Max's out of my 24" AR at 3050 fps and they kill coyotes dead if I do my part. Very few pass thru's, usually on neck or gut shots. An occaisional runner even on well placed shots that didn't know it was dead and a spinner now and then, but they don't spin long....I keep shooting until they quit moving. My partner shoots 45gr HP's out of his 20" rig and gets far more after the shot activity than I do. Most of his exit too.

I beleive the figure is more like ~50 fps per inch on muzzle velocity loss and published muzzle velocities on factory ammo is usually out of a 24" barrel.

I'm switching to a 16" calling rig next season and I'll be interested to see how my ammo preforms out of it.
 
Was shooting my DTECH .223 at 400yd steel over the weekend with and noticed how different bullets were impacting.
My 65gr Gameking handloads were ringing it pretty good and leaving a noticable indentation visible through the scope against the painted white circle.

I also had a bunch of Federal American Eagle 50gr JHP to burn. The impact of these rounds were barely audible and hardly left a mark on the steel plate. If it weren't for the dust puff off the steel, I'd have thought I was missing.

I still think the .223 is a 300yd coyote caliber and there are plenty of better calibers for long range killing. But based on those 400yd steel craters, I won't hesitate to take a broadside poke with the Gamekings, given a high percentage opportunity of course...
 
The person who mentioned twist has mirrored some of my thoughts as well...

I shot 60 Vmax's out of my .223 AR that is twisted 1:7 this past year. I shoot a load traveling a hair under 3K. I get exits on grey fox consistantly but the exits are not messy at all. Just silver dollar sized.

I've only had one exit on a coyote and have not had exits on cats. Not one animal left their tracks this past year.

Performance was superb and accuracy is also superb.

I hypothesize with myself often and wonder if my fast twist coupled with a moderate velocity with a frangible bullet is a magic combo.

That said, you gotta love this discussion. We all kill coyotes, we all love to shoot, and we all have success.

All who have partaken in this discussion thus far are definately eligible for the looniness award...grin...
 
I think Bloody Tailgate had it right when he commented about us asking for the impossible. Nothing will ever be 100 percent, there are just too many variables to perfectly control every situation. Pick the bullet that performs the best the most often, take the time to fine tune your equipment, practice your shooting skills, and after you have done all that you can do, accept the fact that there are some things you cannot control and you may get an occasional runner.
 
Some of your problem may be the time of year your shooting these animals we had a prettyt cold wet winter in many parts of the country this last year. Coyote fur is very dense the colder it gets they also have a double coat (like a lot of dogs) and when the under coat gets wet it mats plus the outer coat can get mudsoaked and matted to the point of clogging the bulets and preventing full expansion. I participated in a study on JHP's and how clothing affects expansion for the LEO agency I used to work for. It is surpriseing how much differance a down vest of coat can make compaired to a T shirt or even a denim shirt when it comes to bullet expansion. Fur can work the same way wet and muddy or matted fur especially.
BTW I use the V-Max almost exclusivly for yotes but I am shooting a 243 WSSM loaded with 87 Grain V Maxes
 
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I think this "no pass through" and "Bang-Flop" mentality has many of us asking for the impossible.



ETA: If it's DRT you are looking for...shoot a larger claiber, or wait for a straight on body length shot.

If it's fur you want, keep shooting the .223, give them the terminal double lung shot, and get some invaluable tracking practice /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif





BINGO and or get a JRT to help with the tracking.

100_0614.jpg


Kelly
 
I've ben playing with some bullets the past few years and here goes. After recomendations here I tried the 55gr SGK and while killing well left softball size exits with my 223.

I switched to 50gr NBT's and have had great luck so far no exits but see evidence of trama on the off side of body from entrance, even with entrances through the shoulder.

Moving up to the 222Rem Mag IMP. shooting 40gr NBT's they are mirroring the results of the 50's in the 223, just flatter shooting.

In the 6x45mm 55gr-70gr NBT's are exiting and pretty tough on fur but put them down right now, most have been shot with the 55's. Will try out 55gr Blitzkings and 62gr Varmint Grenades and will be adding a 6x47mm IMP. to the mix.

AWS
 
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