Kimber, Browning, or Remington (long with lots of questions)

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1) Kimber has more QC problems with their bolt guns right now than I, or they, can remember. It's a nightmare to be sure. Too bad, cuz i like the blue-print/idea, and that they are American made. It's about 50/50, with no exaggeration, of gettin' a POS that will have to be returned for "repairs" right now..........

2) Browning A-bolt: absolute biggest POS out there.....an accident waiting to happen...'nuff said.......

3) Rem Ti........good gun in virtually all respects, but with a little homework, you can slap together a custom for real close to the same price with a better barrel........



I hear ya. Problem with building the custom is time. I need a suitable rifle in time for the Kodiak trip. I'm not taking anything I currently have. I'm aware of the gamble with Kimber but... If its not right they will fix it. Cant say the same for alot of other gun makers. People veiw the Kimber as expensive... its really a deal, downfall is when you get a bad one it takes some time to correct. Call Remington or Browning and complain your rifle is shooting 2 MOA with the guns favorite ammo. They will tell you thats good for hunting accuracy. That may be true for most of the hunting I do. But the rifle I am trying to find is for the long range hunts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif
 
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Broknaero,

The bore diameter difference betwen the .270 and .284 is .007. Do you think the 'wound channel" sizes are going to be different???

I think not.

As the politicians use to say..It's the economy stupid. For us hunters," It's the bullet stupid."

Hog



Compairing apples to apples here. Hoginator204 has a point here.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/7mm_wsm.html

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ballistics/270_wsm.html

Compair the numbers... Very close. With the correct load/bullet either will kill an elk dead as dead at distances anyone has any business shooting them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif
 
GEEEZ!!

With the comments here about Short mags and Browning's I should consider selling mine. I did not know they were that awefull.


First one I'll get rid of is the one featured on the first page of Browning's Showcase page;

http://www.browning.com/services/trophycase/index.asp

Thats the one I took the deer in my avatar with. A-bolt Medalion in 325.WSM. Guess that bang-flop at close to 300 yards must have been a fluke. Ya, I should part with that as soon as possible.


Darnit!! Guess the one on this page is Bogus too!!


http://www.browning.com/services/trophycase/index.asp?offset=210


I think I'll just crumple up those pic's and toss those mounts in the trash.

Problem is how to tell my son that the FIRST deer he shot at 11 years old in Mexico, was shot with the Biggest POS you can buy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif You know , this one that he shot with his first rifle, A Browning A-bolt in 243.WSSM;





1stBuck.jpg




Just glad no terrible accidents happened when he flattened that deer in Mexico. Response to accident's are pretty slow down there ya-know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif What was I thinking???


Looking back, I was real lucky shooting Javalina with an A-bolt too. Never know right!

Javalina.jpg




Glad to get the taste of the fresh backstraps out of my mouth from this one shot with a SS-Mag........BBBLLUUUUUUCCCCKKKKK.


Deer2.jpg



Gonna sell those dime shooting, bang flopping POS's pronto!! Gonna get me one of those nice Remmy's instead. Just got to figure out how to pay the gunsmith to get my new gun shooting straight. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


What Was I Thinking!!!!????? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smiliesmack.gif




Dave
 
Dave,

There's alot of dead critters on that Browning link you gave. I owned about all brands of firearms for hunting and defense and I think there's good and bad in all brands. The only one I've ever sent back was a Remington.

Here's a pic of the 7mm WSM "POS" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifin action.......

AlaskaPics.jpg


Nice and light @ 7 lbs. 4 oz. all up w/ Leupold 2.5x8.
 
RugerNut,

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Here's a pic of the 7mm WSM "POS" in action.......




Sweet!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif........ But how did you make the shot without the barrel catching on fire or the bolt exploding in your face?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif


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There's alot of dead critters on that Browning link you gave.




Sorry, you had to actually look through a couple to find mine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



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The only one I've ever sent back was a Remington.





HHMMMMMMM........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused1.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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I ran Winchester Supreme 180 grain 300 win mag, thru two rifles, 1 remington and 1 Tikka, and I ran 180 grain Supreme, 300WSM thru a chrono, from a Remington rifle, the rem. started out as a super short and was rechambered to 300wsm.

rifle 1. 300 win mag.: 5 rounds/10feet. 2955, 2963, 2960, 2966, 2953.
rifle 2. 300win mag.: 5rounds/10feet. 2951, 2962, 2967, 2959, 2968.


Rifle 1, 300wsm: 5 rounds/10feet. 2890, 2900, 2893, 2907, 2911.

The 300 Win Mag and the 300 WSM would not use the same powder for max efficiency in both cartridges . Different powders for different case shapes . (kind of ) I'm not really good at explaining things , maybe someone else could explain it better .
The 2 are very close to being equal as far as performance though . Both are super hunting rounds and each has it's own merits . I have one of each , and a 300 Weatherby . I like them all too .

I have never tried a factory load that did what the factory said. Now I freely admit that this is a very sparce sample and there is not enough data to form any conclusions.
Hornady book #6th. edition shows:
180 grain bullet.

WSM- 80 grains of AA Magpro= 3000fps

300W Mag- 76.9 grains AA Magpro= 3000fps.

Sierra, 5th edition: 180 grain.
WSM, RE-22, max load of 71 grains at 3000fps.
W.Mag RE-22, max load 74.8 grains for 3100fps.

hmmmmm???? more efficient? I think not. Every Manual I own shows the same thing. I have never tried this AA Magpro powder, but it was the one load that was identical in that manual.
That said, you are right that the difference means nothing on game performance.
Carl

 
Dave,

I didn't have to look far. I meant, there's a lot of dead critters the Brownings have taken. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif And most of the hunters are smiling, for some strange reason. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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I'd check it out for yourself before you listen to someone who hasnt owned one -BHLBAMA

I can't believe you of all people just said that! You of all people are the king of talking down about rifles you don't own.
 
I am not quite sure why, but if one wants to send a
discussion thread off into the weeds, just ask for a choice
between a WSM, or an old favorite belted mag. One shouldn't
have to make their case by slamming one of the choices.
Your preference should stand on technical merit, or
minimally, reasonable preference points.

I have both the old favorites, and the newly developed
WSM, chamberings, and personally I kind of like magnum
power in a short action. Also, head spacing off the
shoulder, versus the belt, at the case head, makes more
sense to me, too.

So, in an attempt to bring this thread out of the weeds,
I would suggest you go with your first choice, since it
is your first choice. You always run the risk of getting
a problem rifle, no matter what brand you buy, or what
price you pay.

FWIW, When the 7mm WSM came out, I instantly like it
over the 7mm RM, and the 280 Rem, just because of it
being a short action 7mm Mag. But I also recognized that
there were absolutely rabid fans of the 7mm RM, and the
280 Rem/7mm Express, that would not sit for some short
fat mag peeing on their parade. That prediction has
come to pass, for WSMs in general, and is especially
true for the 7mm WSM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes marketing hype may have
wrote checks that WSM's can't cash, but they are viable
choices in today's market, and I personally am happy
I have the choice.

As for the notion that the WSM line is dead, some folks
need to check on what is in their Kool-Aid. Just look
at all of the wildcatting going on with the WSM case.
I am thinking a 6.5mm/WSM sounds like one I need. Or
maybe a barrel burning 25 WSM, and oh what the heck
I need a 375 WSM, too./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Sorry to contradict all of you
doom and gloom WSM guys, but my kids are going to die, with
commercially available WSM brass, in several flavors. If
we still have the 7mm Mauser, and all of it's children
around, and it doesn't fit well in a short action, and
can't fully utilize a long action, the well into the short
action WSM is going to be just fine.

Squeeze
 
I was afraid it would be contraversal. but thats life. I have done my homework, weighed the pros and cons. I will go with a WSM. Either the .270 or the 7mm. In either the Kimber Montana or H-S Precision Rifle.
 
I still say you are asking for trouble with the Kimber....Finnlight is much better.....

I'd build a custom rifle before paying for the H-S....

100_0377.jpg


100_0378.jpg


100_0178.jpg


100_0171.jpg




 
Kimber is a big name in the handgun world! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif I really don't see them turning out junk rifles all the time . Why would they want too tarnish their reputation? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I'm not a lucky man in general, but my Kimber Montana in .300 wsm is a shooter. The barrel is free floated, the action is pillar bedded, and the trigger is the best factory trigger I've shot! All done at the factory .There is not many factory rifles that don't need alot of work too make them well.

Why are you not taking the .325wsm ? I know the deer are not big,but you are in big bear country!

Good Luck! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-003.gif

Tim
 
Not to stir the pot but I have seen some good Kimbers and some really bad ones too. A friend had a gun shop for 14 years selling over 40,000 guns. I was present to see the junk Kimbers that came in and overheard numerous conversations between him and Kimber. Rifles at the price of a custom with the quality for a discount store. They also came with the Kimber attitude where he had to argue to get it right. Now I didn't say anyones favorite Kimber is no good. It is no secret that Kimber is hit & miss for quality. The Sako synthetic or greywolf laminated seem like a safer choice with a good track record. I guess the Sig's are a little more spendy but hold one and operate the bolt once, it will sell you. Very very nice. I need to go call a coyote and shoot it to keep me out of these threads.
 
Never said anything bad about a gun I didnt own except the Mossberg rifle that just came out!!! MFTD you still making those 200 yard predator shots with your 7mm Rem Mag which is the only caliber fit for that long of a shot. right??? HAHAHHA
 
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2muchgun, not worried about the prices of the H-S this rifle will be with me a long time. Custom will take to long. Need something now to be acustomed to it and have the bugs and loads worked out by fall. The Finnlight is nice, just not in a caliber I want.

Tim Neitzke, The .325 shoots beautiful. But wood stocked. Not something I want on these kind of hunts. I'll save it for Africa, maybe Kodiak Browns, or the occational Elk hunt.

Grunter, Those are some sweet pictures of game man! Great job! The lil' one must have been proud of that buck!.

I'm going to see a Kimber Montana tomorrow. See how it feels and fits. I know some people have gotten bad ones, but if I get a bad one it will get fixed. I have been assured by the dealer that I will be satisfied if he has the order 10 and fight to return the other 9. If the Kimber doesnt work for me I will use it for the short term and just order a H-S built for the long term.
 
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Grunter, Those are some sweet pictures of game man! Great job! The lil' one must have been proud of that buck!.





Broknaero,


Thanks guy but Dad was the proud one! Vaughan practiced for months with his "POS" A-Bolt and made a perfect shot when the whip came down. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinning-smiley-006.gif

Not for Nothing Guys, but a great point was made here in this thread. Not everyone can afford a Finlite or Sako or Kimber. Lots of us get the best we can afford and make the best of what we got.

The One thing we have in common here is this site! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowingsmilie.gif

I never have a problem posting up pics and adventures that I and my son have. I hope that they dont bore people here. I feel like part of a family of sorts when I log on. I drool often when my family members here post pictures and stories of stuff I dont have, or have not experienced. Thats what makes this site a blast! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


Dave
 
Broknaero, Just a thought but you might want to check out Hill Country Rifles. They have some semi custom rifles in stock that are garanteed to be 1/2" shooters with factory loads.Denny
 
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