Muzzle Loader Questions

CVA isnt the only company that has had failures. Just look at what remington has gone through lately. Does that mean that remington is a crappy company and all their guns are junk?
 
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Originally Posted By: HOGGHEADOriginally Posted By: OptimaAndyIf Knight rifles are so top of the line then why did they almost go under. If they are so much better than everyone else then their sales should be going through the roof.

TC is very successful because they have great cutomer service, a good name, a good product, and lots of advertising dollars.

CVA sells well because they sell them for cheap. Alot of people do not want to put alot of money into an MZ.

As far as Knight vs. CVA in quality?? You are kdding?? Right?? There is no way you would honestly put CVA and Knight in the same category when it comes to quality.

Put a Knight and a CVA in front of someone and let them pick one. They would pick the Knight every time. Every time.

I did mention that CVA has improved their quality. And they have. But believe me they have put out a ton of junk. You would have had to be around MZ's for awhile to know that. I do not know your experience. So I can not judge wha you may or may not know. I do know that if you have been around the business for the last 30 or 40 years then you would know that CVA has put out a ton of junk. Just an opinion. Tom.

yes they have had some issues. They aren't the only company that has but with the new Apex and the Optima Elite, they are putting out much better guns. The accura and the accura V2 are also very nice muzzle loaders.
Knight does make a nice gun but IMHO they are not what i would concider the King of Muzzleloaders
 
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Originally Posted By: CWeeksI know this is over kills for dogs, but I am going to get one and decided that a good accurate without breaking the bank model would be nice to get a dog with. I want to complete the tradition of getting a coyote with every weapon I own. All my guns have been properly christened so far, now my bow needs to stick one and hopefully a black powder also in the near future.

What loader should I get. I am thinking the TC line, they have a look to them and seems to be very accurate and their products seem to be liked by the masses. The TC Impact is the one I am looking at.

Back to the question at hand here. I do not have experience with the Impact but I have a TC Omega and an old TC White Mountain Carbine. The fit and finish on these two ML's is excellent. The Omega is much more accurate and more suited to longer ranges though.

I'm glad to see that Knight will soon be selling rifles again. If it were me I'd try to get my hands on the Knight Extreme and compare it to the others you are considering. The Knight rifles that I have shot were all excellent shooters except one. It was a Knight Revolution. I suppose it was one that just slipped through the cracks at Knight right before they went under.
 
CW, there's another option you could take:
http://www.prbullet.com/700.htm

I am doing something similar by switch barreling a Marlin XS7
to .45 ML. You could do the same with several different makes
of CF rifles.

Advantages? You can actually SEE Mr/Ms Songdog after pulling
the trigger. If you WANT your targets to be obscured with a
cloud of smoke after pulling the trigger, go with any of the
aforementioned suggestions.

P.S. One shouldn't be so hard on Mr. Wakeman....after all, he's
a legend in his own mind.
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Just get one of these and shoot them with buckshot!!

I'm not sure how good the top one is it was made in the 1870's and I'm not sure it will last another 140 years.
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knight makes a good gun, but i prefer TC's and have had several, and have shot dozens and i really like them and find them to be very accurate and reliable. I would not buy CVA for a number of reasons, the biggest is a personal one that is no big deal it just rubs me the wrong way, All of CVA's commercials revolve around them saying -the CVA is better than "fill in company here" for this reason and this reason, Its just a better gun...blah blah blah. they say that with nothing to back it up but unfounded claims. If thier priduct was so good they would not have to bad mouth every other company in their commercials, all companies use tactics that make them seems better than the next but CVA's are so obvious and snotty i just dont like them. there is a right way and a wrong way to do business, and if they do business so poorly in that manner, what else are they doing worng?????


Sorry, crash bang boom...............that is me falling off my soapbox .
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2muchgun I dont post much on this forum anymore but im gonna say this. For the most part I have agreed with you and liked what you have said. But this post is over the top..... You sir are a flat out Dick!!!!!!! Everybody has there opinion but you try to push your idea and wont listen to anybody! People like you are the reason this place has gone down hill
 
I got a CVA Optima in a 50 caliber last year for my birthday and I am shooting 295 grain hollowpoints with 85 to 90 grains of 777 out of it. I've only punch paper with it so far. It is fun to shoot and fairly easy to clean and not real heavy. Not any heavier than a scoped hunting rifle.
I haven't heard any bad reviews about the CVA until this post came up. I'm very happy with mine. This is my first ML and I don't know much about them other than you put the components down the barrel and pull the trigger and go eat lunch and wait for the bullet to hit.

Let us all let this gentleman make up his own mind which ML he would like to shoot instead of bashing everything out there. He may be very satified with CVA over a TC or a Hawken. Ones opinion of JUNK my be a perfectly great rifle for someone else.

Just my opinion,

Tony
 
1 more vote for a traditional side-lock muzzle loader.
In my opinion ( and I know more than you ) lol, these are true muzzle loaders.
I'm only joking about knowing much about guns.
I do however think muzzle loaders should have 2 designations;1 traditional; 2 modern.
I hunt with a cheap euro knock off hawkins look alike. Name means nothing to me, and it shoots very good,
I have never shot a modern muzzle loader,buts that's a personal choice.
Get what you want, and the HECK with all of us. You need to be happy with it, not us
 
Maybe you are right. Maybe I get a little carried away at times about issues I feel strongly about. But guns blowing up in people's faces is a serious thing, and should not go unsaid. If my ranting saves this from happening to one member, then it was worth the effort, regardless of how you may feel.

The mere fact that a website like cvaguncases.com exists, should provide enough reason alone for someone to stay away from CVA products, I would think......
 
Originally Posted By: Helipilotm2muchgun I dont post much on this forum anymore but im gonna say this. For the most part I have agreed with you and liked what you have said. But this post is over the top..... You sir are a flat out Dick!!!!!!! Everybody has there opinion but you try to push your idea and wont listen to anybody! People like you are the reason this place has gone down hill

Just for the record...It's Ken not Dick .
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This place has lost a HUGE amount knowledge. Some have been ran off one reason or another. Lots are still here but refuse to waste their time posting,because they are feed up with the DRAMA.
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As far as my stand on muzzle bangers....
I haven't played alot with them, but my friends and I have 4 TC Omega that just plain shoot! Knight would be my next choice and CVA well............might aswell put a BSA scope on it and have the real deal.
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If all the cva stuff is true, and they have made all these settlements, how they still have money to operate? No question their earlier guns had problems. I think it is also partly due to...like em or not, they have sold a ton of guns. And maybe alot of new guys to ML's, arnt properly seating the bullets, leaving air pockets, and causing some problems. Not properly loading one is the deadliest mistake one can make.
 
Guys you are missing part of the point. First TC and Knight rifles are manufacturers that sell what they make. And for the most part they are American made.

CVA is NOT A MANUFACTURER. They are a trade name, or better known as an importer. That has alot to do with the products they sell. They always have to concern theirselves with currency fluctuations and specs. put on them by the different mfrs.(and countries) they buy from.

This is important because it puts one more profit ceneter into the mix. So if you sell a low cost product to start with, then you have to have lower mfr. costs. Some of those costs are offset by cheaper labor in foreign countries, and are by using less qualtiy parts. And that is where CVA has gotten in trouble over the years.

Yes they may market a betteer gun this year. But what about next year?? They have much less control over what they sell, because as I stated above they do not make anything.

Personally I try to stay away from trade name companies. I have seen too many go in and out of business over the years. A lifetime warranty is of no value if the company is out of business.

I sold Charles Daly MZ's for years. We bought alot of our MZ's from CVA. CVA imported them, put the CD name on them, then sold them to us. We sold to the mom and pop's. Look at this chain. The quality on these rifles was extremely poor. There were too many hands in the fire. Tom.
 
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