running coyotes with trucks and c.b. radios
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Chupathingy
New member
I/we certainly "try" to stop all errant shots before they strike a house. I hope this changes the mind of a few of you about our method of hunting. What do ya'll want me to do? Be sure of my backdrop BEFORE I shoot? Sheesh, the nerve.
Chupa
Chupa
luckyhuntermich
New member
Originally Posted By: ChupathingyI/we certainly "try" to stop all errant shots before they strike a house. I hope this changes the mind of a few of you about our method of hunting. What do ya'll want me to do? Be sure of my backdrop BEFORE I shoot? Sheesh, the nerve.
Chupa
If you are referring to my post, we are well aware of our surroundings and where other hunters and house ect are located. This is no different then deer, pheasant or squirrel hunting. No matter what you are hunting you have to be aware of your surroundings and backdrops. I don't know why you think we are bad people. We follow the rules just like you do in the wildlife that you hunt. Just because we use dogs and run large sections to control the coyote population by legal terms doesn't make us horrible, inconsiderate men.
Chupa
If you are referring to my post, we are well aware of our surroundings and where other hunters and house ect are located. This is no different then deer, pheasant or squirrel hunting. No matter what you are hunting you have to be aware of your surroundings and backdrops. I don't know why you think we are bad people. We follow the rules just like you do in the wildlife that you hunt. Just because we use dogs and run large sections to control the coyote population by legal terms doesn't make us horrible, inconsiderate men.
Last edited:
Varminterror
New member
There are ways to abuse the letter of the law for any method of hunting. Guys that bend or abuse the law will always give those of us that uphold the INTENT of the law, and uphold high standards for sportsmanship and ethics a bad name. But that doesn't mean something should be outlawed because someone abuses it.
By the letter of the law, you can surround a section with a dozen guys, and walk towards the center with your rifles and eradicate all of the deer in that section. Not very sporting, but it's not illegal. You could also drive an ATV through pastures in western KS until you find a herd of antelope, step off, and stick a 7mm bullet through one of them from 800yrds. Mostly it's just "shooting", and doesn't offer a sporting chance, but it's not illegal. For what it's worth, how is prairie dog "hunting" sporting? There's no pursuit, they live there, they come out, we shoot them. It's legal, so who is any other hunter to say that just because it's not very sporting, someone else shouldn't partake? Some guys take shots and say that setting snares isn't ethical, but then turn around and use a club or lung-crush an animal in a leg-hold?
Driving around until you spot or spook up a coyote may not be very sporting either, but it's not illegal. Deer hunters complain about other hunters using feeders under their stands, bow hunters complain about rifle hunters taking 500yrd shots at game, etc etc. The laws have been established, when new "unsporting" methods come up, they get brought up to the law-makers, and if they decide something isn't sporting, then it becomes law. If they decide that something IS sporting, then the law will reflect that.
Now, there's a BIG difference in running dog wagons and driving through pasture and shooting out the window. Running hounds is a long and storied tradition, and I'm a whole-hearted supporter of this method of hunting. It's a thrill and a matter of pride when your dogs work well together, track and jump out a coyote, then bring it down.
It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey".
Ultimately, there's always someone that is going to bend the law. How many times have you been cut off by someone turning right on a red light in front of you? It's not illegal, but they might not have really yielded like they should have. Trucks and CB's are meant to be legal in some states for the use of dogs, but if guys decide to rip up their front ends and drive trains driving through pastures and shooting out the window, until the state says it's illegal, it's not fair to take potshots at it.
If you DO have a problem with it, take it up with the state. Frankly, in KS at least, you'll have cattleman's associations up in arms if you did, as ranchers basically reserve the right to kill coyotes in any way they want/need/can.
By the letter of the law, you can surround a section with a dozen guys, and walk towards the center with your rifles and eradicate all of the deer in that section. Not very sporting, but it's not illegal. You could also drive an ATV through pastures in western KS until you find a herd of antelope, step off, and stick a 7mm bullet through one of them from 800yrds. Mostly it's just "shooting", and doesn't offer a sporting chance, but it's not illegal. For what it's worth, how is prairie dog "hunting" sporting? There's no pursuit, they live there, they come out, we shoot them. It's legal, so who is any other hunter to say that just because it's not very sporting, someone else shouldn't partake? Some guys take shots and say that setting snares isn't ethical, but then turn around and use a club or lung-crush an animal in a leg-hold?
Driving around until you spot or spook up a coyote may not be very sporting either, but it's not illegal. Deer hunters complain about other hunters using feeders under their stands, bow hunters complain about rifle hunters taking 500yrd shots at game, etc etc. The laws have been established, when new "unsporting" methods come up, they get brought up to the law-makers, and if they decide something isn't sporting, then it becomes law. If they decide that something IS sporting, then the law will reflect that.
Now, there's a BIG difference in running dog wagons and driving through pasture and shooting out the window. Running hounds is a long and storied tradition, and I'm a whole-hearted supporter of this method of hunting. It's a thrill and a matter of pride when your dogs work well together, track and jump out a coyote, then bring it down.
It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey".
Ultimately, there's always someone that is going to bend the law. How many times have you been cut off by someone turning right on a red light in front of you? It's not illegal, but they might not have really yielded like they should have. Trucks and CB's are meant to be legal in some states for the use of dogs, but if guys decide to rip up their front ends and drive trains driving through pastures and shooting out the window, until the state says it's illegal, it's not fair to take potshots at it.
If you DO have a problem with it, take it up with the state. Frankly, in KS at least, you'll have cattleman's associations up in arms if you did, as ranchers basically reserve the right to kill coyotes in any way they want/need/can.
Chupathingy
New member
Originally Posted By: luckyhuntermichOriginally Posted By: ChupathingyI/we certainly "try" to stop all errant shots before they strike a house. I hope this changes the mind of a few of you about our method of hunting. What do ya'll want me to do? Be sure of my backdrop BEFORE I shoot? Sheesh, the nerve.
Chupa
If you are referring to my post, we are well aware of our surroundings and where other hunters and house ect are located. This is no different then deer, pheasant or squirrel hunting. No matter what you are hunting you have to be aware of your surroundings and backdrops. I don't know why you think we are bad people. We follow the rules just like you do in the wildlife that you hunt. Just because we use dogs and run large sections to control the coyote population by legal terms doesn't make us horrible, inconsiderate men.
I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If how you hunt is legal, I am all for you doing it and will support your right to do so. But if you do NOT follow the letter of the law, then you deserve any and all punishment dealt. If your dogs crossing into a property line you do not have access to is illegal, you deserve any and all punishment dealt. If you have a problem with that, it's the same as saying "The law does not apply to me". I will never "Bad mouth" a legal form of hunting. But I will vehemently chastise any low life poaching scumbag.
Chupa
Chupa
If you are referring to my post, we are well aware of our surroundings and where other hunters and house ect are located. This is no different then deer, pheasant or squirrel hunting. No matter what you are hunting you have to be aware of your surroundings and backdrops. I don't know why you think we are bad people. We follow the rules just like you do in the wildlife that you hunt. Just because we use dogs and run large sections to control the coyote population by legal terms doesn't make us horrible, inconsiderate men.
I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If how you hunt is legal, I am all for you doing it and will support your right to do so. But if you do NOT follow the letter of the law, then you deserve any and all punishment dealt. If your dogs crossing into a property line you do not have access to is illegal, you deserve any and all punishment dealt. If you have a problem with that, it's the same as saying "The law does not apply to me". I will never "Bad mouth" a legal form of hunting. But I will vehemently chastise any low life poaching scumbag.
Chupa
Originally Posted By: VarminterrorThere are ways to abuse the letter of the law for any method of hunting. Guys that bend or abuse the law will always give those of us that uphold the INTENT of the law, and uphold high standards for sportsmanship and ethics a bad name. But that doesn't mean something should be outlawed because someone abuses it.
By the letter of the law, you can surround a section with a dozen guys, and walk towards the center with your rifles and eradicate all of the deer in that section. Not very sporting, but it's not illegal. You could also drive an ATV through pastures in western KS until you find a herd of antelope, step off, and stick a 7mm bullet through one of them from 800yrds. Mostly it's just "shooting", and doesn't offer a sporting chance, but it's not illegal. For what it's worth, how is prairie dog "hunting" sporting? There's no pursuit, they live there, they come out, we shoot them. It's legal, so who is any other hunter to say that just because it's not very sporting, someone else shouldn't partake? Some guys take shots and say that setting snares isn't ethical, but then turn around and use a club or lung-crush an animal in a leg-hold?
Driving around until you spot or spook up a coyote may not be very sporting either, but it's not illegal. Deer hunters complain about other hunters using feeders under their stands, bow hunters complain about rifle hunters taking 500yrd shots at game, etc etc. The laws have been established, when new "unsporting" methods come up, they get brought up to the law-makers, and if they decide something isn't sporting, then it becomes law. If they decide that something IS sporting, then the law will reflect that.
Now, there's a BIG difference in running dog wagons and driving through pasture and shooting out the window. Running hounds is a long and storied tradition, and I'm a whole-hearted supporter of this method of hunting. It's a thrill and a matter of pride when your dogs work well together, track and jump out a coyote, then bring it down.
It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey".
Ultimately, there's always someone that is going to bend the law. How many times have you been cut off by someone turning right on a red light in front of you? It's not illegal, but they might not have really yielded like they should have. Trucks and CB's are meant to be legal in some states for the use of dogs, but if guys decide to rip up their front ends and drive trains driving through pastures and shooting out the window, until the state says it's illegal, it's not fair to take potshots at it.
If you DO have a problem with it, take it up with the state. Frankly, in KS at least, you'll have cattleman's associations up in arms if you did, as ranchers basically reserve the right to kill coyotes in any way they want/need/can.
Wow, what a breath of fresh air! But Varmintterror, with no ill intent meant. I would just like to clarify this paragraph.
"It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey"."
I believe you may have been mislead. Probably by someone repeating this from others, that repeated it from others, creating a mith (rumor) that spreads like a virus. But Running dogs, and Coonhounds, are completely different than sight hounds (or catch dogs) as they are also called. But any breeder of Running dogs or Coonhounds that is worth a - - - -. Will tell you that if you have to feed (kill) everything that your dogs trail or tree. You are truely hunting sorry stock. This is from the horses mouth so to speak. For there was a time I treed as many as 500 coon in a year. And only knocked 10 down to the dogs. And I can verify that there was never a time that I turned them loose that they were mopey. They do it because they were bred to do it, and they love to do it.
I have no knowledge of sight (catch) dogs. So i certainly will not be one to start any rumors in regaurd to participating in it. I guess different strokes for different folks.
I guess when ya hear someone say don't believe 95% of what ya hear. And only 50% of what ya see. It may not be a bad way to look at things.
Take care, Willie
By the letter of the law, you can surround a section with a dozen guys, and walk towards the center with your rifles and eradicate all of the deer in that section. Not very sporting, but it's not illegal. You could also drive an ATV through pastures in western KS until you find a herd of antelope, step off, and stick a 7mm bullet through one of them from 800yrds. Mostly it's just "shooting", and doesn't offer a sporting chance, but it's not illegal. For what it's worth, how is prairie dog "hunting" sporting? There's no pursuit, they live there, they come out, we shoot them. It's legal, so who is any other hunter to say that just because it's not very sporting, someone else shouldn't partake? Some guys take shots and say that setting snares isn't ethical, but then turn around and use a club or lung-crush an animal in a leg-hold?
Driving around until you spot or spook up a coyote may not be very sporting either, but it's not illegal. Deer hunters complain about other hunters using feeders under their stands, bow hunters complain about rifle hunters taking 500yrd shots at game, etc etc. The laws have been established, when new "unsporting" methods come up, they get brought up to the law-makers, and if they decide something isn't sporting, then it becomes law. If they decide that something IS sporting, then the law will reflect that.
Now, there's a BIG difference in running dog wagons and driving through pasture and shooting out the window. Running hounds is a long and storied tradition, and I'm a whole-hearted supporter of this method of hunting. It's a thrill and a matter of pride when your dogs work well together, track and jump out a coyote, then bring it down.
It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey".
Ultimately, there's always someone that is going to bend the law. How many times have you been cut off by someone turning right on a red light in front of you? It's not illegal, but they might not have really yielded like they should have. Trucks and CB's are meant to be legal in some states for the use of dogs, but if guys decide to rip up their front ends and drive trains driving through pastures and shooting out the window, until the state says it's illegal, it's not fair to take potshots at it.
If you DO have a problem with it, take it up with the state. Frankly, in KS at least, you'll have cattleman's associations up in arms if you did, as ranchers basically reserve the right to kill coyotes in any way they want/need/can.
Wow, what a breath of fresh air! But Varmintterror, with no ill intent meant. I would just like to clarify this paragraph.
"It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey"."
I believe you may have been mislead. Probably by someone repeating this from others, that repeated it from others, creating a mith (rumor) that spreads like a virus. But Running dogs, and Coonhounds, are completely different than sight hounds (or catch dogs) as they are also called. But any breeder of Running dogs or Coonhounds that is worth a - - - -. Will tell you that if you have to feed (kill) everything that your dogs trail or tree. You are truely hunting sorry stock. This is from the horses mouth so to speak. For there was a time I treed as many as 500 coon in a year. And only knocked 10 down to the dogs. And I can verify that there was never a time that I turned them loose that they were mopey. They do it because they were bred to do it, and they love to do it.
I have no knowledge of sight (catch) dogs. So i certainly will not be one to start any rumors in regaurd to participating in it. I guess different strokes for different folks.
I guess when ya hear someone say don't believe 95% of what ya hear. And only 50% of what ya see. It may not be a bad way to look at things.
Take care, Willie
luckyhuntermich
New member
Originally Posted By: ChupathingyOriginally Posted By: luckyhuntermichOriginally Posted By: ChupathingyI/we certainly "try" to stop all errant shots before they strike a house. I hope this changes the mind of a few of you about our method of hunting. What do ya'll want me to do? Be sure of my backdrop BEFORE I shoot? Sheesh, the nerve.
Chupa
If you are referring to my post, we are well aware of our surroundings and where other hunters and house ect are located. This is no different then deer, pheasant or squirrel hunting. No matter what you are hunting you have to be aware of your surroundings and backdrops. I don't know why you think we are bad people. We follow the rules just like you do in the wildlife that you hunt. Just because we use dogs and run large sections to control the coyote population by legal terms doesn't make us horrible, inconsiderate men.
I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If how you hunt is legal, I am all for you doing it and will support your right to do so. But if you do NOT follow the letter of the law, then you deserve any and all punishment dealt. If your dogs crossing into a property line you do not have access to is illegal, you deserve any and all punishment dealt. If you have a problem with that, it's the same as saying "The law does not apply to me". I will never "Bad mouth" a legal form of hunting. But I will vehemently chastise any low life poaching scumbag.
Chupa
Well here in Michigan it is LEGAL to go on to someone's property without permission to retrieve your dog. We try our best to keep them out but again, don't bash it til you try to catch a group of 3+ dogs before they get there. It is very difficult.
Around here, landowners are very willing to let us run their property because they want us to kill as many as we can. Yes there are a slim few who won't because they like the coyotes so we stay off their property and the only time we come near it is if the dogs are headed that way.
Chupa
If you are referring to my post, we are well aware of our surroundings and where other hunters and house ect are located. This is no different then deer, pheasant or squirrel hunting. No matter what you are hunting you have to be aware of your surroundings and backdrops. I don't know why you think we are bad people. We follow the rules just like you do in the wildlife that you hunt. Just because we use dogs and run large sections to control the coyote population by legal terms doesn't make us horrible, inconsiderate men.
I guess I'll have to repeat myself. If how you hunt is legal, I am all for you doing it and will support your right to do so. But if you do NOT follow the letter of the law, then you deserve any and all punishment dealt. If your dogs crossing into a property line you do not have access to is illegal, you deserve any and all punishment dealt. If you have a problem with that, it's the same as saying "The law does not apply to me". I will never "Bad mouth" a legal form of hunting. But I will vehemently chastise any low life poaching scumbag.
Chupa
Well here in Michigan it is LEGAL to go on to someone's property without permission to retrieve your dog. We try our best to keep them out but again, don't bash it til you try to catch a group of 3+ dogs before they get there. It is very difficult.
Around here, landowners are very willing to let us run their property because they want us to kill as many as we can. Yes there are a slim few who won't because they like the coyotes so we stay off their property and the only time we come near it is if the dogs are headed that way.
coyotecrazy
New member
Diyi you might want to check SD laws.
Varminterror
New member
Putting 500 coons in a tree in a season is a feat, but you're not the only one that's fought their share of fur. While it aint a 500 a year average, we usually put up around 200 bandits each winter, and have trained our share of hound pups.
Straight from the horses mouth, as you put it, we DID see dogs that would lock on a tree all night long start passing up after a summer long running season (allowed to run and tree coons, not allowed to shoot them out). Our experience has been that the "reward" seems to keep them hooked on THAT coon better until you command them to move on.
Your mileage obviously varies.
Regarding catch dogs/sight hounds, that is also within my wheelhouse. The least hounds we've had at the home ranch over the last 50yrs to my knowledge is 6 or 8, up to a couple dozen hounds at once.
Animal nature is animal nature. Boxers don't work as hard if you never put them in the ring under the lights and all they do is spar with training partners.
Straight from the horses mouth, as you put it, we DID see dogs that would lock on a tree all night long start passing up after a summer long running season (allowed to run and tree coons, not allowed to shoot them out). Our experience has been that the "reward" seems to keep them hooked on THAT coon better until you command them to move on.
Your mileage obviously varies.
Regarding catch dogs/sight hounds, that is also within my wheelhouse. The least hounds we've had at the home ranch over the last 50yrs to my knowledge is 6 or 8, up to a couple dozen hounds at once.
Animal nature is animal nature. Boxers don't work as hard if you never put them in the ring under the lights and all they do is spar with training partners.
GC
Well-known member
I have talked to a few guys who run dogs in the Mark Twain National Forest here. They run through some of my calling grounds and we have never had a cross word. They are doing their thing the same as I am. The only one I ever had a problem with was one old greasy bastage that bragged about killing a monster bobcat out of season. That made him a poacher, not because he was running dogs, rather because that was just the way he was and I guarantee he shoots anything he wants to whenever he wants with or without dogs. He’s just a chit head all the time. As for the other guys as long as they are legal I have absolutely no problem with them, different strokes and all. They probably feel the same way about me and my predator calling. I actually haven’t seen them as much in the last couple of years.
A few years ago when we lived on the farm shortly after moving in I saw a small blue truck parked on the gravel county road about 200 yards from the house and a guy standing beside it with a shotgun. I drove down to see what he was up to and he informed me there was a heck of a game crossing on my place right there. He was waiting for his hounds to push a coyote out of the creek bottom and through the crossing. He had an old battered Remington 1100 stoked with 00 Buck. I quizzed him a bit more about this game crossing and he told me what he knew about the lay of the land and how game used it thereabout. He said he ran his hounds through here about four or five times a season and had been doing so for about forty years. Evidently about 200 yards across my fence on my place was a gap in the cross fence down in the creek bottom that game used very regularly. He mentioned that the old man that used to own the farm allowed him to set up down there but he knew there was a new owner and hadn’t had time to introduce himself and ask permission yet. Shooting from the roadway was illegal and I told him to go ahead and get on down there where he could intercept the coyote best and be careful and if he needed anything to come up to the house. He never bothered a thing around there; I would see his truck parked there like he said a few times through the season.
Conversely, a year or so later we were awakened by hounds baying right in our back yard and a couple shots from a .22 at near midnight. I grabbed my light and shotgun and flipped on the big floodlight in the back. A couple of coon hunters and their dogs had just shot a coon out of the tree right in the back yard. Pizzed me off and I told them to gather their mutts and get off my place. I also told them I did have a coon problem and would appreciate their help; however they had dam well better stop by the house and introduce themselves and get permission before cutting their dogs loose. Also, they would hunt well away from the house in the future. Never heard from them again, guess they would rather do things the hard way. All they had to do was stop by at a decent hour and talk to me for a bit and they could have hunted all they wanted during the coon season. I had plenty of coons and wanted to help my turkey nesting success by thinning them out some. I killed four out of the front yard bird feeder and another half dozen around the barn that winter. I could shine a light down on the creek and find coon eyes in the trees more times than not.
Would have been some easy hunting for them if they had the decency to be respectful and do things the right way. But hound hunters don’t have a lock on the knucklehead department, that trait crosses into every section and faction of the human populace.
A few years ago when we lived on the farm shortly after moving in I saw a small blue truck parked on the gravel county road about 200 yards from the house and a guy standing beside it with a shotgun. I drove down to see what he was up to and he informed me there was a heck of a game crossing on my place right there. He was waiting for his hounds to push a coyote out of the creek bottom and through the crossing. He had an old battered Remington 1100 stoked with 00 Buck. I quizzed him a bit more about this game crossing and he told me what he knew about the lay of the land and how game used it thereabout. He said he ran his hounds through here about four or five times a season and had been doing so for about forty years. Evidently about 200 yards across my fence on my place was a gap in the cross fence down in the creek bottom that game used very regularly. He mentioned that the old man that used to own the farm allowed him to set up down there but he knew there was a new owner and hadn’t had time to introduce himself and ask permission yet. Shooting from the roadway was illegal and I told him to go ahead and get on down there where he could intercept the coyote best and be careful and if he needed anything to come up to the house. He never bothered a thing around there; I would see his truck parked there like he said a few times through the season.
Conversely, a year or so later we were awakened by hounds baying right in our back yard and a couple shots from a .22 at near midnight. I grabbed my light and shotgun and flipped on the big floodlight in the back. A couple of coon hunters and their dogs had just shot a coon out of the tree right in the back yard. Pizzed me off and I told them to gather their mutts and get off my place. I also told them I did have a coon problem and would appreciate their help; however they had dam well better stop by the house and introduce themselves and get permission before cutting their dogs loose. Also, they would hunt well away from the house in the future. Never heard from them again, guess they would rather do things the hard way. All they had to do was stop by at a decent hour and talk to me for a bit and they could have hunted all they wanted during the coon season. I had plenty of coons and wanted to help my turkey nesting success by thinning them out some. I killed four out of the front yard bird feeder and another half dozen around the barn that winter. I could shine a light down on the creek and find coon eyes in the trees more times than not.
Would have been some easy hunting for them if they had the decency to be respectful and do things the right way. But hound hunters don’t have a lock on the knucklehead department, that trait crosses into every section and faction of the human populace.
Before this thread fades away i would like to thank everyone that posted! I didnt start this thread but have had strong feelings on this subject since i first heard of this form of hunting and have been wanting to discuss this with people of both views.
although i am not convinced that laws are not being broke or atleast bent really hard it is a very affective way to help keep coyote numbers in check. I do believe that it is better suited for large tracks of privately owned land where trespasing is less likely to happen.
I have friends that hunt this way and maybe some day i will leave my gun at home and tag along just to see first hand what it is like. anyway Thanks!
although i am not convinced that laws are not being broke or atleast bent really hard it is a very affective way to help keep coyote numbers in check. I do believe that it is better suited for large tracks of privately owned land where trespasing is less likely to happen.
I have friends that hunt this way and maybe some day i will leave my gun at home and tag along just to see first hand what it is like. anyway Thanks!
DannoBoone
Active member
In a very big way, this thread is remindful of many other
debates:
Longbow vs. compound
Both vs. X-bow
Traditional vs. inline
Both vs. smokeless inline
etc., etc.
I'm too adversely effected by cold weather, so don't enjoy
anything outdoor in NE Iowa. Otherwise, I would love to get
into calling them in. Earlier today, there was a group who
was hunting in their pickups all around here. A neighbor
talked to one of them and they had spotted five on one farm
and three on another, the result being coyotes-8, hunters-0.
They shot a total of four shots, while only educating the
'yotes. My only problem with that is if you're going to do
something, do it right. We have a dwindling deer population
around here which directly corresponds to a rising coyote
population.
Last year, on another forum, a story was told about some
deer hunters turned coyote slayers (seems like somewhere
in the NE U.S.) who had the same 'yote problem we are having
here. No method of hunting them to reduce the population
was working because the area was heavily wooded. Out of
desperation, several of the deer hunters got together and
started hanging chunks of meat from trees. Holding the
meat at the end of stout fishing chord were large, snagging
treble hooks. Each morning, the "lines" were checked and
many coyotes were dispatched. Time will tell if they got
enough of them last winter to make a difference.
That's tempting, but I just can't wrap my head around the
idea of fishing for coyotes. Probably not legal, anyway.
debates:
Longbow vs. compound
Both vs. X-bow
Traditional vs. inline
Both vs. smokeless inline
etc., etc.
I'm too adversely effected by cold weather, so don't enjoy
anything outdoor in NE Iowa. Otherwise, I would love to get
into calling them in. Earlier today, there was a group who
was hunting in their pickups all around here. A neighbor
talked to one of them and they had spotted five on one farm
and three on another, the result being coyotes-8, hunters-0.
They shot a total of four shots, while only educating the
'yotes. My only problem with that is if you're going to do
something, do it right. We have a dwindling deer population
around here which directly corresponds to a rising coyote
population.
Last year, on another forum, a story was told about some
deer hunters turned coyote slayers (seems like somewhere
in the NE U.S.) who had the same 'yote problem we are having
here. No method of hunting them to reduce the population
was working because the area was heavily wooded. Out of
desperation, several of the deer hunters got together and
started hanging chunks of meat from trees. Holding the
meat at the end of stout fishing chord were large, snagging
treble hooks. Each morning, the "lines" were checked and
many coyotes were dispatched. Time will tell if they got
enough of them last winter to make a difference.
That's tempting, but I just can't wrap my head around the
idea of fishing for coyotes. Probably not legal, anyway.
canislatrans54
New member
Originally Posted By: wdenikeOriginally Posted By: VarminterrorThere are ways to abuse the letter of the law for any method of hunting. Guys that bend or abuse the law will always give those of us that uphold the INTENT of the law, and uphold high standards for sportsmanship and ethics a bad name. But that doesn't mean something should be outlawed because someone abuses it.
By the letter of the law, you can surround a section with a dozen guys, and walk towards the center with your rifles and eradicate all of the deer in that section. Not very sporting, but it's not illegal. You could also drive an ATV through pastures in western KS until you find a herd of antelope, step off, and stick a 7mm bullet through one of them from 800yrds. Mostly it's just "shooting", and doesn't offer a sporting chance, but it's not illegal. For what it's worth, how is prairie dog "hunting" sporting? There's no pursuit, they live there, they come out, we shoot them. It's legal, so who is any other hunter to say that just because it's not very sporting, someone else shouldn't partake? Some guys take shots and say that setting snares isn't ethical, but then turn around and use a club or lung-crush an animal in a leg-hold?
Driving around until you spot or spook up a coyote may not be very sporting either, but it's not illegal. Deer hunters complain about other hunters using feeders under their stands, bow hunters complain about rifle hunters taking 500yrd shots at game, etc etc. The laws have been established, when new "unsporting" methods come up, they get brought up to the law-makers, and if they decide something isn't sporting, then it becomes law. If they decide that something IS sporting, then the law will reflect that.
Now, there's a BIG difference in running dog wagons and driving through pasture and shooting out the window. Running hounds is a long and storied tradition, and I'm a whole-hearted supporter of this method of hunting. It's a thrill and a matter of pride when your dogs work well together, track and jump out a coyote, then bring it down.
It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey".
Ultimately, there's always someone that is going to bend the law. How many times have you been cut off by someone turning right on a red light in front of you? It's not illegal, but they might not have really yielded like they should have. Trucks and CB's are meant to be legal in some states for the use of dogs, but if guys decide to rip up their front ends and drive trains driving through pastures and shooting out the window, until the state says it's illegal, it's not fair to take potshots at it.
If you DO have a problem with it, take it up with the state. Frankly, in KS at least, you'll have cattleman's associations up in arms if you did, as ranchers basically reserve the right to kill coyotes in any way they want/need/can.
Wow, what a breath of fresh air! But Varmintterror, with no ill intent meant. I would just like to clarify this paragraph.
"It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey"."
I believe you may have been mislead. Probably by someone repeating this from others, that repeated it from others, creating a mith (rumor) that spreads like a virus. But Running dogs, and Coonhounds, are completely different than sight hounds (or catch dogs) as they are also called. But any breeder of Running dogs or Coonhounds that is worth a - - - -. Will tell you that if you have to feed (kill) everything that your dogs trail or tree. You are truely hunting sorry stock. This is from the horses mouth so to speak. For there was a time I treed as many as 500 coon in a year. And only knocked 10 down to the dogs. And I can verify that there was never a time that I turned them loose that they were mopey. They do it because they were bred to do it, and they love to do it.
I have no knowledge of sight (catch) dogs. So i certainly will not be one to start any rumors in regaurd to participating in it. I guess different strokes for different folks.
I guess when ya hear someone say don't believe 95% of what ya hear. And only 50% of what ya see. It may not be a bad way to look at things.
Take care, Willie
.........
Because of the fact that I have reiterated it several times over the past 7 years, in my previous reply here, I kept it short & simple.
However, after actually re-reading this entire thread just now, I'm once again going to give my full opinion on the subject........
I'm a 3rd generation coyote hunter.
And a lifetime resident of Kansas.
I'm currently 48 yrs old, and I've been hunting coyotes in one form or another for truly the past 40 years...as I started going "full-time" with my father when I was only 8 yrs old.
My grandfather, my father, & a couple of my great-uncles all hunted with greyhounds out of trucks....beginning shortly after World War 2.
So, in other-words, I grew up in this environment.
Due to the high cost of owning/caring for the dogs, my dad decided in the late-1970s to switch from hauling dogs, to using a shotgun from the truck.
He drove...I hung out the window & was the shooter (as well as the gate opener/closer; and extra "set of eyes").
Dangerous?...Yes, obviously.
Legal?...Yes, obviously.
Need to be slightly insane to do it that way?...Yes, obviously.
Stupid?...I guess that all depends on each person's point of view.
Did we ever drive thru fences?...H*LL NO!!! After all, we also are/were farmers ourselves.
Did we trespass?...NO!!! We only hunted on properties we had permission to be on...and most of those properties were/are owned by other members of our "hunting group".
Did we drive across crop ground to catch up to a coyote?...Only if that ground was frozen!!! Never any other time. If we couldn't get to the coyote, we let it live to see another day.
We hunted from trucks w/shotguns from approx. 1980-1995.
In the winter of '95-'96, my dad decided to quit hunting, & I took up hunting with calls.
So, as I stated in my earlier post...I can see all sides of the debate.
By the letter of the law, you can surround a section with a dozen guys, and walk towards the center with your rifles and eradicate all of the deer in that section. Not very sporting, but it's not illegal. You could also drive an ATV through pastures in western KS until you find a herd of antelope, step off, and stick a 7mm bullet through one of them from 800yrds. Mostly it's just "shooting", and doesn't offer a sporting chance, but it's not illegal. For what it's worth, how is prairie dog "hunting" sporting? There's no pursuit, they live there, they come out, we shoot them. It's legal, so who is any other hunter to say that just because it's not very sporting, someone else shouldn't partake? Some guys take shots and say that setting snares isn't ethical, but then turn around and use a club or lung-crush an animal in a leg-hold?
Driving around until you spot or spook up a coyote may not be very sporting either, but it's not illegal. Deer hunters complain about other hunters using feeders under their stands, bow hunters complain about rifle hunters taking 500yrd shots at game, etc etc. The laws have been established, when new "unsporting" methods come up, they get brought up to the law-makers, and if they decide something isn't sporting, then it becomes law. If they decide that something IS sporting, then the law will reflect that.
Now, there's a BIG difference in running dog wagons and driving through pasture and shooting out the window. Running hounds is a long and storied tradition, and I'm a whole-hearted supporter of this method of hunting. It's a thrill and a matter of pride when your dogs work well together, track and jump out a coyote, then bring it down.
It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey".
Ultimately, there's always someone that is going to bend the law. How many times have you been cut off by someone turning right on a red light in front of you? It's not illegal, but they might not have really yielded like they should have. Trucks and CB's are meant to be legal in some states for the use of dogs, but if guys decide to rip up their front ends and drive trains driving through pastures and shooting out the window, until the state says it's illegal, it's not fair to take potshots at it.
If you DO have a problem with it, take it up with the state. Frankly, in KS at least, you'll have cattleman's associations up in arms if you did, as ranchers basically reserve the right to kill coyotes in any way they want/need/can.
Wow, what a breath of fresh air! But Varmintterror, with no ill intent meant. I would just like to clarify this paragraph.
"It DOES require a certain degree of "stomach," as pretty much anyone will balk at seeing the dogs fight a coyote for the first time. I see it the same as running coonhounds, the dogs have to work to get the job done, and for what it's worth, the fight is the "closure" or reward they need for a job well done. The dogs are driven to find them because they want to kill the target animal, you can actually see a change in their demeanor if you don't let a coonhound or greyhound fight/kill/confirm dead the quarry after a hunt, they actually get "mopey"."
I believe you may have been mislead. Probably by someone repeating this from others, that repeated it from others, creating a mith (rumor) that spreads like a virus. But Running dogs, and Coonhounds, are completely different than sight hounds (or catch dogs) as they are also called. But any breeder of Running dogs or Coonhounds that is worth a - - - -. Will tell you that if you have to feed (kill) everything that your dogs trail or tree. You are truely hunting sorry stock. This is from the horses mouth so to speak. For there was a time I treed as many as 500 coon in a year. And only knocked 10 down to the dogs. And I can verify that there was never a time that I turned them loose that they were mopey. They do it because they were bred to do it, and they love to do it.
I have no knowledge of sight (catch) dogs. So i certainly will not be one to start any rumors in regaurd to participating in it. I guess different strokes for different folks.
I guess when ya hear someone say don't believe 95% of what ya hear. And only 50% of what ya see. It may not be a bad way to look at things.
Take care, Willie
.........
Because of the fact that I have reiterated it several times over the past 7 years, in my previous reply here, I kept it short & simple.
However, after actually re-reading this entire thread just now, I'm once again going to give my full opinion on the subject........
I'm a 3rd generation coyote hunter.
And a lifetime resident of Kansas.
I'm currently 48 yrs old, and I've been hunting coyotes in one form or another for truly the past 40 years...as I started going "full-time" with my father when I was only 8 yrs old.
My grandfather, my father, & a couple of my great-uncles all hunted with greyhounds out of trucks....beginning shortly after World War 2.
So, in other-words, I grew up in this environment.
Due to the high cost of owning/caring for the dogs, my dad decided in the late-1970s to switch from hauling dogs, to using a shotgun from the truck.
He drove...I hung out the window & was the shooter (as well as the gate opener/closer; and extra "set of eyes").
Dangerous?...Yes, obviously.
Legal?...Yes, obviously.
Need to be slightly insane to do it that way?...Yes, obviously.
Stupid?...I guess that all depends on each person's point of view.
Did we ever drive thru fences?...H*LL NO!!! After all, we also are/were farmers ourselves.
Did we trespass?...NO!!! We only hunted on properties we had permission to be on...and most of those properties were/are owned by other members of our "hunting group".
Did we drive across crop ground to catch up to a coyote?...Only if that ground was frozen!!! Never any other time. If we couldn't get to the coyote, we let it live to see another day.
We hunted from trucks w/shotguns from approx. 1980-1995.
In the winter of '95-'96, my dad decided to quit hunting, & I took up hunting with calls.
So, as I stated in my earlier post...I can see all sides of the debate.
Dustballs
New member
These topics are kind of like the 17HMR topics. I am glad I dont live any place close to the idiots who will shoot a persons dog for being on their big section of private land (probably a 40 acre tract). It is posts like these that make my mind up when I catch someone trespassing with out of state plates and were not talking on a 40 acre hobby farm. Hang em high. If I were to catch a guy retrieving his dogs I would probably invite him to come hunting no matter where he is from.
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